How much of a social stigma is it really to have zero experience with women?

>If you have a decent face and are in shape
My face is pretty average, I'm not ripped but I have a decent body too. I'm also average height.
I'm not ugly but I haven't caught a girl looking at me though. Apparently I have a resting angry face and I always look tired so maybe that's a factor.

How do people notice?
Even when I'm self assured everyone seems to figure out I have no experience.

Incel and virgin are two completely different things. An incel is defined as a violent psychopath who wants to rape and murder women and avoids everything that would result sex. A virgin is someone who has not had sex yet.

Learn the difference. Most incels are virgins. But less than 0.0001% of virgins are incels.

Hope she sees this, bro

Incel just means "involuntary celibate" though, that's the definition I'm going by in the OP.
I don't hate women or even dislike them, I'm just very distrustful and cowardly when it comes to anything related to relationships. I don't know anything about how to interact with others in that way and I tend to assume they think I'm unattractive or creepy.

Anyone?

>An incel is defined as a violent psychopath
Ok, by that logic a ship is defined as a sea going vessel in excess of 50'000 tons and armed with at least 5 guns in excess of 5 inches in caliber.

The definition of incel has just changed to accomodate the needs of social media.

Incel in itself is a loaded term because it implies a certain world view. Most people who are not currently having sex (or have never had sex) would like to get action. Labeling yourself an incel makes it sound like you feel the world cheated you out of sex (like Eliot Rodger and like-minded folks). It implies a certain attitude towards your virginity and, with that, women and the rest of the world. Don't use it.

You're right in that technically everyone who isn't getting any is voluntarily celibate (since I can just get a hooker or something), but I think the term incel is just used to highlight that you feel bad about being in that situation (whereas "volcel" implies you're actually doing this by choice, which is very rare).
But yeah, I get that it carries that connotation now.

I think the so called "normies" care but I think of normies as really retarded normal people that only care about drinking, getting high, and partying. They might care because the project their insecurities onto others and if they meet an incel it is like the polar opposite of them. However these people aren't really "normal" there are many other people out there that will not care some women may even find it cute.

>voluntarily celibate
You don't need the word voluntary there dude.

What you're saying is there's no consensus?
I'm not talking about any particular group of people, just about others in general.
What do you mean?

>What you're saying is there's no consensus?
Yep. Some people will be judgemental some won't. Just go after the ones who won't they will probably be much nicer people anyways. Honestly I am basically an "incel" or "mentalcel" as they say but I have learned to not be nearly as bothered it isn't the end of the world.

>What do you mean?
I mean celibacy implies it is voluntary. A celibate is someone who is voluntarily unmarried or abstinent.

I guess. But even if they don't outwardly express any judgment they'll probably think you're weird or something's wrong with you, won't they? Since fucking is something you're supposed to do as a teen without thinking much about it, so at a certain age not having done it is like not knowing how to ride a bike or something, but worse.

>But even if they don't outwardly express any judgment they'll probably think you're weird or something's wrong with you, won't they?
Maybe although for me it is kind of true I have been severely depressed and have horrible anxiety. I don't think that will be a deal breaker for all women though. Honestly the kind of women that is a deal breaker for are probably not very mentally healthy.

Even if it is true that you haven't "developed" enough as a man or whatever why should you just give up because of that? What's the point?

>it is kind of true I have been severely depressed and have horrible anxiety
I'm pretty sure there's no guy above 20 who's a KHV and is completely mentally healthy (in the sense that most probably have social anxiety or something like that).
>the kind of women that is a deal breaker for
Okay but what if most women find that to be a deal breaker?
>why should you just give up because of that?
I don't know, it's just that as time passes it gets more and more difficult and the gap between me and other people increases. Once you reach 25 and you've never been in a relationship, should you even bother? What can you possibly bring to the table? It'd just be a headache for the girl to have to deal with 25 years of inexperience and (likely) insecurity.

>I'm pretty sure there's no guy above 20 who's a KHV and is completely mentally healthy
I know what you mean.

>Okay but what if most women find that to be a deal breaker?
Well you only need one gf right? Doesn't it just make it easier when you know you don't have to waste time with most women?

>I don't know, it's just that as time passes it gets more and more difficult and the gap between me and other people increases.
I know what you mean I feel it too. But you have to have some self respect don't let the feeling of judgement break you. I think it would be good for most incels to try to be happy with themselves too. It is what I am trying.

>Doesn't it just make it easier when you know you don't have to waste time with most women?
It also makes it harder to find the right one, assuming she'd even want you in the first place because there are other things to take into account than just sexual experience.
>It is what I am trying
You're right, I'm trying to find satisfaction alone as well, but it's difficult and the feeling of inadequacy and wasting time remains.

It is actually, assuming you're not bad looking and are fishing in the right body of water. If you try fishing in the ocean you'll find at least 1 assuming you don't have standards. Even average looking people will try to date someone better than they are. If you're the kind of guy that doesn't have friends, a stable family, don't have much going for you even if you're working, and that kind of thing then you're going to have to settle for someone that can relate to that kind of background. That's just the way it is.

>It also makes it harder to find the right one
Maybe admittedly I haven't really tried dating yet. But I imagine it isn't as hard as you think. I mean would a nerdy bookworm type girl be super judgemental about sex? I kind of doubt it. You just have to look for the right kind of girl I think.

>but it's difficult and the feeling of inadequacy and wasting time remains.
Yeah i feel that too but you have to understand that comes from this social part of your brain. There is no such thing as an inadequate person when you stop identifying with your persona. I admit it is harder to do than you think I still identify with it largely but I think that's what has been helping me really. You are much more than just the social role you play.

Hahaha virgin, what a loser

>You just have to look for the right kind of girl
Yeah. I'm not trying to date either at the moment but I'd imagine girls like that are not very common.
>There is no such thing as an inadequate person
There isn't? The social aspect of things is very important and permeates every aspect of life.
I'm aware that you can't sum up what someone is by their social experiences. It's just that it seems everyone else has gone through these experiences and milestones, and they're living their lives and having fun while I'm obsessing about something that they can't even relate to because it's natural to them. It makes me feel like I'm just fucked up.

>I'd imagine girls like that are not very common.
I wouldn't worry so much about that user.

>There isn't? The social aspect of things is very important and permeates every aspect of life.
Yes and no. You need to have a persona but you don't need to identify with it.

>It makes me feel like I'm just fucked up.
That is what I am saying, it isn't really you that is fucked up it is the rest of the world. I know people think that sounds crazy or vengeful but it isn't really. The world we live in is very unhealthy a person who tries to live a healthy life will not have an easy time. Recognizing that I am not to blame for my problems has been very helpful to me but I couldn't do that without acknowledging that I am equally capable of being hateful as anyone else. You have to be aware of that part of you and consciously reject it then you will be able to acknowledge it in other people too and you won't have to feel as ashamed of yourself.

By that definition incels do not exist. You can always get sex if you want to.

>I wouldn't worry so much about that
Why?
>you don't need to identify with it
What do you identify with, if not what you project to others?
If you don't identify with what you use to communicate socially, isn't that the same as pretending to be someone you're not?
>it is the rest of the world
But most of the rest of the world lives meaningfully and relatively happily, while I don't.
>I am not to blame for my problems
I am. It's my fault if I decided to be a withdrawn autist during my teenage years and that I avoided talking to girls because I'm a coward and thought one would just fall into my lap one day.

It depends user, a lot of people make decisions based on the information they have in their brain at the time. If you chose not to do certain things I'm certain you have your reasons. I think people should be held accountable for their decisions and more so as adults but if you see someone end up in the wrong path and in prison you can only wonder the kind of life that person had. Some people deliberately make bad decisions while others didn't know any other way to do things.

I'm not going to judge you for the decisions you made as a teenager, but in the end if you feel like it's your fault then that's on you man.

>Why?
It's a detail that really doesn't matter. Why does it matter how common a woman who would care about you is? You just need one woman. Statistics don't mean as much as you think.

>What do you identify with, if not what you project to others?
>If you don't identify with what you use to communicate socially, isn't that the same as pretending to be someone you're not?
No user the persona is the false version of you that you use to survive in the outside world. You can identify with your psyche the entire mind including the deep and rich inner unconscious world. Also there is the spiritual side too, meditation is helpful to people because it really is about de-identifying with your thoughts and focusing on the stream of consciousness that is the real you. Even ignoring metaphysical aspects of spiritualism you can see that you really are not your thoughts, your social role, or even your unconscious. You are actually something beyond all that, that's what you should identify with.

>But most of the rest of the world lives meaningfully and relatively happily, while I don't.
At the moment you don't but also the world lives happily mostly because they deny their real problems and subdue them in the unconscious. The main difference between you at the moment and others is that your problems are not socially respected where as their's are.

>I am. It's my fault if I decided to be a withdrawn autist during my teenage years and that I avoided talking to girls because I'm a coward and thought one would just fall into my lap one day.
Not really, if you don't fit in with people they will not accept you. You are not solely responsible for the way others treat you. That thought comes from over identification with your social self. As far as avoiding people yes that is something you should work on I need to work on it too but give yourself a break too.

I like that way of thinking in theory, but practically speaking it feels wrong (when applied to my own experiences). I very much fucked myself over and had no incentive to do so outside from cowardice, laziness and entitlement.

>Why does it matter how common a woman who would care about you is?
it makes it more likely that I would find such a woman. Why don't statistics matter? Someone who's outgoing and extroverted is always going to have an easier time than someone who isn't, because those traits are attractive to a greater proportion of people than the opposite traits, aren't they?
>the persona is the false version of you
>focusing on the stream of consciousness that is the real you
See I don't disagree with all you're saying about identity, but as it always happens with such discussions, even though I think you're right, it remains dissociated from my actual feelings. I know that I am not entirely my "social" self but that doesn't change anything to how it makes me feel in my day to day life. I make a conscious effort to dissociate myself from it, but it doesn't change anything, no matter what I still end up back where I started.
>they deny their real problems
I don't think all of them do, or even most. That seems like a somewhat baseless generalization. Everyone tends to subdue their worries into their subconscious as well, I do it and you probably do it too.
>your problems are not socially respected
The reason for this being that they're not supposed to be problems, and that having them as problems is an indicator of an underlying greater problem. Isn't that what it is?
>You are not solely responsible for the way others treat you
Well yeah, but you're mostly responsible for your condition. There are plenty of people who've had shit lives and got bullied and still did something in spite of that.

Can you elaborate on that? I'm not saying you shouldn't feel responsible for the decisions you made OP, you did make them. All I'm saying is I'm not going to assume you're doing everything you do out of your own free will. It's easier to judge an adult than a teenager tied to his/her family, all I'm saying is I try not to judge people if I don't know where they've been. Like I said, if you want to own up to your mistakes and want to take all the blame that's ok, it's your choice.

Well the thing is there's not much to elaborate on, I'm the typical Jow Forums loser except I'm not overweight. Ghosted my friends after high school, never made any new ones, never made an effort to talk to girls because I had a bad experience once so I stopped bothering and thought "hey it'll just magically happen eventually"
Now I'm 21 and have the life experience of a fourteen year old (if I'm being generous), I haven't talked to a girl my age for about four years and I have zero accomplishments or interesting things about myself because I never do jack shit. I'm basically an inanimate object except I whine a lot.

>Why don't statistics matter?
They speak to a mythical "average" entity which does not exist. You are not an "average"

>. I make a conscious effort to dissociate myself from it, but it doesn't change anything, no matter what I still end up back where I started.
Yeah that's what I meant when I said it is really hard. It is probably really a lifelong journey but the important thing is to persevere.

>Everyone tends to subdue their worries into their subconscious as well
Exactly why it isn't really baseless. But honestly if you really observe people it is pretty apparent. Even so though not everyone necessarily does but that shouldn't be a reason to blame yourself for anything. Just because healthy people exist doesn't mean you are worth less.

>The reason for this being that they're not supposed to be problems, and that having them as problems is an indicator of an underlying greater problem. Isn't that what it is?
No. You sound like you really do put a lot of value in "others" it seems like to you other people are always correct right? That plainly is not true others are often wrong about many things, they can be right too but ultimately the important thing to recognize is that simply the fact that they are "other" people does not make them right.

>Well yeah, but you're mostly responsible for your condition. There are plenty of people who've had shit lives and got bullied and still did something in spite of that.
No that is not true at all. Everyone reacts differently and has different life experiences. You need to acknowledge your own and be compassionate to yourself. That is what I mean when I say you should stop identifying with the persona. You seem to value other people implicitly over yourself. Try thinking of yourself as an "other" you might find that it actually is an "other" too and then maybe you will feel it deserves respect too.

So you're me, only I'm older than you and like yourself feel like shit sometimes because I feel like I"m barely going through my adolescent stage again only the 'normal' way this time. Back when I was 14 I had a very different mindset but that was to be expected when you live your childhood in a box. You think you're doing everything right and then reality hits you and BAM, you realize you wasted years of your life and a lot of things you did were for nothing.

I get it, believe me.

>You are not an "average"
Why? Aren't most people average, by definition? Maybe I'm just being obtuse.
>It is probably really a lifelong journey
Then what's the point? Where is the value of struggling to fix a problem (that most won't even have in their lives, ever) when by the time you'll have fixed it, you will have lived your life anyway?
>Just because healthy people exist doesn't mean you are worth less.
Actually you're right, most people aren't healthy, it's rare to find someone who's well adjusted in both mind and body. But that makes it worse in a way, because if other, definitely flawed individuals manage to do something and I don't, I don't even have the excuse of not being perfect.
>you really do put a lot of value in "others"
I used not to, but when I realized that I was the one with the shitty life and that the "others" were not, it led me to question myself. Surely there's something they must be doing right and that I'm missing.
>that is not true at all
But there are examples, aren't there? Some people have had vastly worse experiences than me (getting raped as kids, becoming addicts or whatever) and they still managed to build something worthwhile. Is it just a matter of strength then?
>be compassionate to yourself
It's hard because every time I end up disappointing myself and fucking everything up. Hell I'm doing it right now by being as lazy as usual.
Yeah, pretty much. There's a kind of morbid reassurance in knowing there are other people that share those worries. But you didn't really fix things yet, did you?

I'm trying to user, it's hard when you don't get help. I've been through severe depression back when I was in my early 20's and when shit falls apart in your life you feel like things are stacked against you at every turn. Eventually I started to fix my issues one at a time and now the only thing I'm missing is finding a few good friends, going back to school and maybe have a normal relationship when I feel I'm good enough and that person won't think I'm worth shit. I have everything else down and done.

>you feel like things are stacked against you
Yeah definitely, like no matter what you do you'll be faced with a wall and there's no way to get out of that predicament.
It's commendable that you've managed to partially get out of it. Good for you.

>Aren't most people average, by definition?
No average is just an abstraction on the reality which is far deeper and more intricate, that everyone is an individual with an entire psyche.

>Then what's the point?
Life is not about a destination, it is about the journey. I know that sounds cliche but it is true.

>I don't even have the excuse of not being perfect.
You shouldn't strive for perfection it is impossible to achieve that. You should strive for acceptance and wholeness.

>Surely there's something they must be doing right and that I'm missing.
That is not necessarily true. Their problems could merely be socially acceptable not more difficult or valid than yours. Either way I think the idea that they are right and you are wrong comes from overvaluing society above yourself.

>Some people have had vastly worse experiences than me
All lives are full of struggle. Yes there are certain experiences that you can say are worse than your own but that is true even of people who were raped, it could have always been worse. Eventually you will realize that the idea that if it could have been worse than there is no excuse naturally leads to nihilism and a dismissal of all of anyone's problems as meaningless because there is always another with a worse life or a life you perceive to be worse.

>every time I end up disappointing myself and fucking everything up.
You are not a fuck up just try to let go of all notion of value that you have. Just let go of everything and feel the weight lift off your shoulders. It won't be permanent of course but if you can feel that it would be the first step to understanding what I am saying.

>Hell I'm doing it right now by being as lazy as usual.
Are you being lazy or are you genuinely interested in this conversation? I used to blame myself for Jow Forums use but I realize I mostly use Jow Forums as a place to share my thoughts and get feedback. I admit I do not want to spend so much time here but I don't think it is so valueless.

Thanks, a lot the issues started when I was back in high school and they kept spiraling out of control over the years and there was nothing I could do but watch everything happen. I've struggled with social anxiety since then and my other problems that had nothing to do with me only added to the baggage. People that are going through something like this will constantly have their doubts about being capable enough to achieve what they want, it's a constant struggle. I don't know if I can do it but I have to try. Your resilience and how much you believe in yourself will be tested.

>everyone is an individual with an entire psyche.
But some people have an enviable condition, while others have a shitty one.
>it is about the journey
Then the important thing should be to make the journey pleasant, right?
>overvaluing society above yourself
It's probably true but paradoxical since I don't participate in society in any noteworthy way and I dislike extroverted activities. So why do I value it nonetheless?
>let go of all notion of value that you have
But that leads to nihilism. In absolute terms yes nothing has value, but when taking into account the society we live in and the social contract we fulfill, and shit like culture and whatnot, some things have value. If you let go of value entirely what's the point of existing?
>feel the weight lift off
I understand what you mean and it happens sometimes, when I say "fuck it who cares anyway" and I feel temporary relief because I know that ultimately, my problems are meaningless. But it's always temporary, and it always feels like I'm running away.
>are you genuinely interested
That's not what I meant, I'm interested in the conversation but I'm lazy in general because I should be doing other shit and I'm not. No matter how I justify it that's a fact.
Jow Forums is a good place to get a "stream of consciousness" kind of feedback on a lot of different subjects, but it's still a fucking shithole because everything here is so full of poison and negativity. I've been on here far too long and I can't quit because it's my only social interaction and the only place where I feel I belong, but man it's not a good place.
Are your doubts as intense as they used to be now? Believing in yourself is difficult when you come from a place where you've always assumed you had no achievements or that they were worthless.
Either way good luck.

>But some people have an enviable condition, while others have a shitty one.
Yes but I am trying to help you get out of the shitty one. Actually I am also trying to help myself.

>Then the important thing should be to make the journey pleasant, right?
Yep and that is what I am saying.

>So why do I value it nonetheless?
You an value something by avoiding it. That is usually what makes something so scary you give it more value than it deserves.

>But that leads to nihilism.
No it won't, that is the fear but really you will find there is a lot of value in letting go.

>But it's always temporary, and it always feels like I'm running away.
It's not really running away it is a moment of clarity and higher consciousness. That is from my understanding what meditation tries to achieve for longer periods of time. Admittedly I do not practice meditation but I am somewhat interested in starting.

>but it's still a fucking shithole
Yeah believe me I know what you mean it is pretty bad here but I agree it is my only social interaction. I am just trying to say it is not all worthless there is some value. I think I am drawn here because you can say things you would be ostracized for outside of this place. It just so happens that a lot of hateful things will also make you ostracized but also there are valuable things that you can't say to others because it frightens them. I think that is what I like about this place but I admit I want to find a different way to get that besides Jow Forums or maybe even the internet in general.

>avoiding it. That is usually what makes something so scary
So it's by avoiding others that I ended up putting too much value on them? Maybe that's true, although back in high school I had social contact but still had low self esteem.
>there is a lot of value in letting go
Is the goal to let go "forever"? Reach that state but keep it going indefinitely? I can see how that could help but it's incredibly hard, it pretty much requires that you destroy all inhibitions you may have which feels very unnatural
>it is not all worthless
Yeah definitely not, there are some great things on this website, but the main issue is that it gets you used to a mode of thinking and interacting with others that is completely incompatible with the real world. I'm used to calling/being called a faggot and a retard and not thinking much of it, or talking about outrageous shit relatively openly, but that doesn't fly in normal social situations, and will definitely make you a pariah. Jow Forums gets you used to a system that is too different from how society functions, so if it's your only mode of interaction that becomes a problem because you lose touch with how things really are.

>So it's by avoiding others that I ended up putting too much value on them?
Maybe or maybe you avoid them because you already had too much value in them.

>Is the goal to let go "forever"?
That's probably not possible but getting that experience can help put the rest of your experiences in perspective.

>Jow Forums gets you used to a system that is too different from how society functions
Yeah it's true although at the same time why are you drawn here? Like you said it is those moments of brilliance not really the name calling and deranged thinking. Maybe you should try to find that stuff outside of Jow Forums? The brilliant stuff I mean. I do agree with you though it is why I mostly just use Jow Forums now and I am working on using it less but like you said it is some of my only social interaction and sometimes I just want someone to talk to.

>this one autist posting walls of text nobody will read

>maybe you avoid them because you already had too much value in them.
Seems more likely. I'm gonna have to find a way to get rid of it then, and it's much easier said than done
>try to find that stuff outside of Jow Forums
Where? I can't think of any place where that kind of interaction is possible.

>I'm gonna have to find a way to get rid of it then, and it's much easier said than done
Yep. Good luck user.

>Where? I can't think of any place where that kind of interaction is possible.
Probably in person people can have really intelligent conversations in person. Granted you probably won't have someone calling you a faggot at the same time.

Thanks, to you as well. And thank you for the advice. I'll try to actually put effort into it this time.

As intense, no but I'm reminded when I face the current reality I don't have a social circle besides my immediate family. My extended family was destroyed a while back and several members in different branches of my family were severely affected by it all, myself included. Yeah, when you don't have any achievements it makes you think you can't achieve anything, but I already made progress so I just have to keep working at things and not give up until I'm gone.

>some women may even find it cute
..the beta male said to himself with hope

and what do people notice before examining any one physical feature? height

Wrong. How tall are you and why are you lying?

I understand your situation. It's courageous to manage to keep going in the first place, I tried several times and gave up, so props to you. Keep it up man.
That's the shit I'm talking about. I've never heard that blackpill stuff outside of Jow Forums, but is it because it's bullshit, or because most people don't feel comfortable talking about it?

>How much of a social stigma is it really to have zero experience with women?

Its not like having prior experience is an absolute neccessity for finding a gf (I was in exact same spot until I met my ex), but I can tell you from experience that most girls will either consider this as some sort of red flag.

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Different people like different things, it depends. There are limits to these things but that's the truth.

Because Jow Forums lets anyone post no matter how retarded he is, that's why you have blackpill posters here. It's utter garbage that only someone literally mentally handicapped would believe.

>utter garbage that only someone literally mentally handicapped would believe.
H-haha yeah .
Seriously though it's hard to just dismiss it when you have no other source of info, especially since the more tame (not the "women are not human" shit, I mean the more pragmatic stuff) sounds pretty believable.

It only sounds believable to people with zero understanding of science and logic.

I guess I have neither then, could you explain?

Incels believe in either completely made up shit or jump through enormous hoops to believe the results of a study mean something completely different.

>this study shows millennial men and women have less sex than before
>therefore it means incels are growing in number and women are bigger whores than ever
There's no reasoning with an incel, he's basically a brainwashed cultist. It's his religion.

I'm not talking about that shit, I mean things like or for example
Like how do you separate what's true from what's bullshit when both sound somewhat reasonable?

When it comes to incelism, one rule of thumb is "if this is intended to make you feel inferior and that you cannot get girls because of x" is bullshit. Remember incelism is all about trying to convert men into vulnerable husks.

The graph shows a slight increase in women not having sex, and a large increase of men not having sex. That means the number of incels are growing

Even if it makes sense?
>intended to make you feel inferior
I agree that it's easy to recognize blackpill stuff by the way it's worded since it'll usually be fatalistic and aim to exacerbate insecurity, but
>you cannot get girls because of x
Are you saying there's nothing that prevents anyone from getting a relationship? That's idealistic
The posts I quoted don't sound bitter and don't make wild claims, and something like "lack of experience is a red flag for most" sounds pretty believable to me. Does it still qualify as blackpill shit?

The number of women not having sex has more than doubled. That's not slight. And that graph doesn't measure the number of incels at all. Incels are not defined by their lack of having sex but by how they identify as incels. An incel is part of an online incel community. They identify as incels and believe their teachings.

I identify as incel because incel is a contraction of involuntary celibacy, which I think accurately describes my situation. There is no ideology involved. I can be autistic like that.

If you identify as an incel it means you also actively avoid doing anything that could yet you sex. Being an incel means seeking sex is forbidden.

That sounds like the antithesis of involuntary celibacy.

Celibacy cannot be involuntary, that's a contradiction in terms.

Celibacy means living without sex. There's nothing in that about it being an active choice or forced through circumstance.

no that's not the case
stop falling for reddit memes

Inexperience is a meme. The more a person has premarital partnerships, the higher the divorce.

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Why didn't you answer ? It was an honest question, I'm not trying to imply anything.

Being incel means you blame women for your own problems and can’t man up to reality in a healthy way. It has nothing to do with being a late bloomer who treats women with common civility. Try online dating, make a few mistakes and practice getting women.

You can't be forced through circumstance to not have sex any more than you could be forced to not be able to get food. Not in the developed world anyway. If you live without sex as an adult it's because you choose to.

It's very possible to be forced by circumstances to not be able to get food. Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean everyone else has the same conditions as you.

I'm the poster who wrote about prior experience. I wasn't trying to come off as an incel, its just what I learned from different girls. Its not that there's some general rule that applies to all girls, but the ones I talked with said that if you never had a GF throughout your life and you're over 20. it might seem like there's something wrong with you, even if you're perfectly normal on the surface.

Also, I'm not trying to sound very bitter or cynical, but you should be weary of advice you find online. A lot of the people who give you this advice had never been in your spot, and never had to face the problems that you do. I found that for the most part a lot of these people can't even imagine being in such a position. However, here are some tips that I found to be really helpful.

>Get a hobby
This should be a no brainer, but I still stumble upon guys who's hobbies are literally just consuming various media. Ideally you should go for something creative, however anything will do, as long as its not just anime or video games. Not like there's anything wrong with these, but you can't land a GF if you don't have anything to talk about.

>Move Out
If you're living with your parents, this shit is super crucial. I know this might suck, especially if you live in a big city with insane rent, but girls 22 and above will expect you to be able to invite them back to your place, if you have a really good date. Likewise, if you have to tell a girl who wants to bone that its not possible cause your parents are home, she'll most likely drop you super fast.

>Start paying attention to your clothes
I know this sounds very obvious, but it really hit me when I was talking with my friend. He's got a very strange style, but somehow even if he puts on random pieces of clothing on he looks amazing. He told me that it doesn't come to him easy either, he actualy spends a considerable amount of time at thrift shops trying to score some cool clothes.

>Have friends
I know this should be another no brainer, but if you don't have any friends there's sure as fuck no way you'll get a GF unless some miracle happens. Also, if you know your friends are going out somewhere, try to tag along. This is how you meet girls at that age. Some people will tell you that 'hurr it gets better after high school' but College/Uni is probably the last time in your life you'll regularly hang around so many single girls.

>Make yourself approachable
If you completed all these tasks, you're probably on a right track. Assuming you go out, even if its someone's birthday, you'll probably stumble upon some girls who'd want to talk to you. I know how it feels to be autistic around girls, I remember when I couldn't even maintain eye contact (btw a great tip - if you have troubles with eye contact just focus on their forehead, I know this might sound retarded but you don't even imagine how helpful it was), but just try to chat, you might find that one day at some random moment you meet a girl who's super easy to talk to.

And last but not least
>Talk to your friends
Your friends might know some single girls, who'd enjoy your company. This is actualy how I got with my ex, I wasn't even aware of the fact that my friend was wingmaning me the entire evening.

I'm 28 and a virgin. I think there is some social stigma since I've seen guys at work who had trouble with women getting mocked for it. I think I must either not give off "virgin" vibes or I do but haven't gotten any banter over it for whatever reason. But certainly it's regarded as a negative attribute, insofar as it's a failure to do something almost everyone has succeeded at.

>if you never had a GF throughout your life and you're over 20. it might seem like there's something wrong with you
To the extent that it'd be a dealbreaker?
> A lot of the people who give you this advice had never been in your spot
A lot of people in this thread have been (or rather, currently are) in that position, so I guess that's an advantage of being on Jow Forums. It's true that in general the people who give advice about actually obtaining a relationship never had much trouble getting one in the first place.
>>Get a hobby
>>Move Out
Both of those are covered in my case (well, the second one isn't, but my parents are paying for a small apartment and I'm in a place where living with your parents isn't considered strange until you're over 25 or so)
>>clothes
I don't dress badly at all, especially by Jow Forums nerd standards but what constitutes "cool" clothes? A lot of people try to wear shit they can't pull off, too.
>>Have friends
That's the biggest problem because I know literally nobody. How do you get friends after high school anyway? People already have their own friend groups, does anyone want some loner to start hanging out with them out of nowhere? I've always had trouble making friends and it seems even harder after high school.
Also I always avoided hanging out because I'd always end up being the weird dude who didn't say much and just stood there while others had fun. It was pretty shitty to be honest.
As for the last two they're not applicable I guess. I do know that I look unapproachable though (physically, because of resting bitch face + bags under the eyes) but i'm not sure how to fix that.

>That's the biggest problem because I know literally nobody.
Welp. There you go. You shouldn't worry about virginity, this is a much bigger red flag for a potential partner. If you need to start knowing people, a good place to start would be some group activities. Even if its some nerdy shit like playing MTG you might develop a solid group of mates.

It's okay to have little to no experience with women. It's pathetic when said inexperience drives you to madness and bitterness.

I didn't fit in with the popular people at school but not with the true nerds either so I don't know about /tg/ activities. How do you make friends though? I don't really know how to engage with people without either being clingy or seeming disinterested.
I might try going to university so maybe I can get to know people there, but it's the same problem, I don't know how you go from simple acquaintances to being friends. In any group I've belonged to I was never the first choice.

Have you considered therapy? I suggest seeing a therapist, even if just for couple of sessions. If engaging other people is really that problematic for you, there's absolutely nothing wrong with seeking outside help.

It's not so much a matter of anxiety (though that's a part of it) as much as I really just don't have the skills I guess. I tend to come off as quite cold. Can I ask about that to a therapist? They're not life coaches.

One guy who fucked me told me afterwards that he was a virgin. I think I even laughed him off at first, cause he felt like a sex god. But later it turned out he really was a virgin before.
I'm not trying to say you will come off as a sex god, point is, don't ever write yourself off. Confidence, dude.

>Confidence
I thought people could tell when you're faking it? I mean, in my case people seemed to notice even when I thought I was being fairly confident and relaxed.
Did you mind him telling you afterwards? It feels like something you should mention earlier, maybe I'm wrong though

Nah don’t say anything until your dick is already inside her. Then you can mention that you’re a virgin if you feel you’re not doing a good job.

>They're not life coaches.
Well they kind of are, actualy. Besides, while it might seem to you that you just don't have the social skills, you might have some underlying problems that make it harder for you to socialize. If anything, its worth it just to have some outsider perspective. And if you feel like it doesn't work, a good therapist might suggest you some course of action.

people are stuck watching disney cartoons and repeating utter falsehoods like "there's someone out there for everyone!!!", they don't want to admit how harsh and pitiless life really is. if you understand evolution, then it makes perfect sense that some men HAVE to be losers and that other men are carrying the torch of the next generation's genetics. it wouldn't make sense if every short, ugly, weak man bred. people pretend love is a mystery but if you understand that it's just a cold, mechanical calculation on behalf of women about desirable characteristics surviving and furthering the species like we should then it makes perfect sense. we are hopelessly shackled to our cruel, amoral biology, no matter how kind and considerate we pretend we are

>It's okay to have little to no experience with women
no it doesn't because it almost always means you are ugly and undesirable and defective in some capacity :)

>le confidence meme

lol you feminists have this social media culture indoctrination engulfing your feminist feeble minds. give the guy some slack, you guys have confidence and personality shoved so far up your fucking asses you don't see him for anything else. why not look for his intentions and his loving support instead of basing his status on his body language and tone of voice. you will be happier to cater to him and actually appreciate him more if you let go of these bullshit confidence fantasy illusions. I fucking promise.

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