Finally decide to see my toxic parents after weeks of silence

Thanks user. When you keep tabs on them, have you noticed them grow or become better people?
What have you seen?

Sorry for so many questions.

More like reasonable humans understand through talking, some people are stubborn as fuk and won't listen to reason.

so here's a QRD on my experience:
>parents already had my older sibling who's about two years older than me
>so they knew what they were getting into
>they could've chosen to use contraception or sought an abortion or adopted me out... but they didn't
>my parents had me in the early 90s, both of them being in white Americans in their mid 30s at the time with their own house and both were employed with decent health (except they chose to smoke tobacco)
I'm saying all this to demonstrate just how to blame they both were and are. NOTHING made either of them have a kid they weren't ready for.
>life seems kinda OK at first, the things that were bad were normalized in my mind because I had nothing to compare it to at the time
>mother was always cold and about as loving as a mannequin, nothing about her was fun or nuturing
>father was gone a lot for his job, when he was around he was kinda OK to me but would do things like drag my sibling and I along on hikes in summer with no water when I was in elementary school, he hit me a few times yet at the same time he would make me feel special at times
>sibling and I have never gotten along and would occasionally break into physical fights as children that were far from play fights
basic lifestory so you can compare to your own

>Get a job in another city
>move out
>visit them on holidays only

I already have a home with my girlfriend of nearly 6 years now (who they've only seen for about 15 minutes of our relationship). I don't even visit them on holidays already. I honestly only see them when my mother pleads for physical help which she genuinely needs.

Thanks user. If this is why you left i obviously have some real issues i'm not understanding about myself. Thanks a ton.

ask as many questions as you want, I will get to all of them if I don't answer immediately. I'm going to go in chronically order first tho.

OK continued:
>9/11 happens, country is on edge for months and months, all adults around me refuse to shut off the TV/radios talking about 9/11 constantly
>hit puberty which I'm sure the stress of 9/11 honestly brought on a bit early
>early 2002, my parents stop pretending to be normal/happy and announce they're getting a divorce, I just turned 10 at this time
>my life takes an abrupt turn for the worse
>father moves out but stays in town for the next 2 years
>mother goes from cold and unloving to out of control verbally abusive and torments me mentally
>she is utterly controlled and polite in public and around non-family but behind closed doors she does all she can to break me down mentally. she always made sure no one could ever see her acting this way. thus, no one would ever believe me if I told anyone.
>when I do see my father he seems checked out and depressed, I become clingy to him but he either doesn't notice anything different or does not care
>my mother never deviates from her course of behavior after this, the only change is she gets more controlling and cruel over the years
>father leaves town abruptly and moves to the other end of the country to his general hometown location with no warning
>I don't see him for two years and over time the phone calls and post cards from him dwindle down and stop
>at 14 my sibling and I get invited to his place to see since we haven't seen him once in two years since he left
I was hopeful for this trip because I was going to tell him my mother was abusing him and I was going to ask him for help.
>spent a month with him at his place, it's awkward and like we're already strangers
>he just seems like a checked out Boomer dad in his mentality
>finally talk privately to him about my home life with my mother towards the end of the month long trip

continued

I wish I could leave my mom, but she only has me and my brother, and he's fucking retarded
she's so fucking hateful and controlling. she reminds me of all my failures, thanks to her useless "advice" and general retardation

my father reacted like this really defensively, waving his finger in my face:
>"W-well, shut up about it! It's not like we ever hit you or anything!"
which is just... but dad you HAVE hit me before. so I knew he was never going to help me.
>go back home and focus on the fact I had ~3.5 years left of hell
>super miserable, try to come up with a plan
>decide to tell one teacher so as to ask for help
>teacher does nothing
>feelings of wanting to die increase, my mother belittles me and constantly screams at me, controls every part of my life
>she's a sexual deviant on top of all this and has inappropriate boundaries with me
>try to talk to my sibling to get on common ground and see if we could get along and help each other
>sibling refuses and constantly spends 24/7 with friends out of the house
>every time I try to subvert my mother or stand up to her my life gets worse and worse
anyone who thinks my abuse was tame hasn't been trapped for years with a Cluster B-esque abusive parent who has all the rights while you do not have any, it destroyed my mind and spirit
>proceed to ask another teacher for help after talking about my home life
>teacher does nothing
>talk to one more teacher for help in high school
>teacher does nothing except say, "Karma will get her." which didn't help and was a lie anyway.
>recession hits, try to get a job but no one is hiring
>become more and more lost and miserable, can't focus, can't come up with a plan to get out
>sibling goes away to college, I express sadness that I'll be all alone with crazy abusive mom and sibling laughs in my face
so there's no relationship there with my sibling as you can see.
>get a bf in high school which was my sole source of happiness and bf knows about abuse
>after ~two years of dating high school bf I get dumped because "I know other people who get abused by their families and they're not nearly as sad as you. Also, I never really loved you I think."

continued

Dont visit them or talk to them ever that's what I did my dad was a fucking cunt

>at this point I'm completely alone, my mother has become something insidious and more fucked up than ever, I've started failing many classes in school for the first time and I can't focus on anything
>I begin to fear going to college because it will just be another way my mother will be able to control me past the age of 18, it's not like my sibling is happy or free from our mother just because of attending college
>I can't focus on jack shit because I'm so stressed and miserable, the abuse makes me feel like I'm having brain fog all the time along with being heartbroken my first love left me so coldly
>contemplate suicide or homicide, have no idea what I would even study in college, feel completely lost and hopeless
>abruptly some boy who I had had classes with a few times who had always seemed rude if I ever asked him a question or said anything to him approaches me at school shortly before graduation (I had tried to befriend him in middle school and he practically bit my head off)
>....and suddenly we're dating which was a surprise to me
>tell him about my family, he tells me about his
>surprise, we both have insane, abusive families!

Take advantage of anything they can give if you already gave up on them. Use their selfishness to your own benefit. My parents are rotten to the core but ill still take money and shit from them. They try to hold it over my head but i just ignore them kek

So how old are you? Hit puberty during 9/11 must be like 30 now?
So if your above 16 why not get a job and move out?

Our stories are very, very similar. The person i ended up with also came from a really fucked up place.

>he is nice to me and we begin our relationship about a month before high school ends
>I wonder if maybe finishing school will snap my mother out her abusiveness, maybe there's some way to reconcile....? talk things over...?
>one night I accidentally fall asleep at new bf's house (we both fell asleep by accident)
>so when I get home it's late but I never had an established curfew
>my mother is furious, she would always get so angry with me when I would spend time with friends or boyfriend
>she's beyond livid and we have conversation through my bedroom door because I feel fearful of her
>any hope remaining that we might one day get along shatters when she says this:
"I don't care if you're miserable, all I care about is that you slap a smile on your face when I come home at the end of the day."

I left about 12 hours after she said that, before she came home from work. I stayed at a classmate's house for a few days then I went to my new bf's house. Then we pooled whatever money we had and both of us left our families.

I'm not OP, just posting my life story so OP can compare with my shit

that happens a lot

so what happened next was a bit over 18 months of either sleeping on the street, homeless shelters or some kind of reduced cost housing program for youth homeless people. it was horrendous and miserable. but even at the worst moments (and trust me it got VERY bad) it was still better than being around my family.

So OP you asked about
>fallout
I did get some fallout yes. Because of some forwarding address issue my mother ends up getting a notice at my old house of new address. I get a letter from her in which she doesn't apologize for anything and the entire letter feels utterly mechanical. I don't even know why she bothered other than she was always convinced she had to make the public appearance of seeming to care and be normal.
She then proceeded to tell my bf's crazy family our new address and we got to be stalked by them for awhile which was awful. eventually we got the fuck out of the place were we at but FFS they sent the cops to our door in the ghetto. it's not illegal to leave when you're 18 or older. the cops were angry but it's like I was the one choosing to waste their time.

OP here, here's my story
>grow up with a cold mother who doesn't spend time with me, just buys me toys sometimes which is nice
>dad is never, ever home
>its a trailer park closed off from any cities
>grow up with this, socialise properly in school but mostly just play videogames
>exceeded in school
>mom ends up being an alcoholic
>constantly screaming at me, falling down drunk
>for some reason i end up really fucked up and would play with my own shit (i grew out of this thank god)
>my mother wouldn't ever address this, just screamed at me about it
>at one point when she was drunk she tried to strangle me
>i call the police and when they show up im taken away
>i remember seeing my mom arguing/slurring drunkenly with the police officer about me playing pac man not doing my homework
>i'm embarrassed for her and not even an adult yet
>im taken out of school to homeschool, alone, since my dad is not home
>i begin to fail school
>fast forward to adulthood
>my mom still has screaming matches with me, threatens me, throws things and smashes her belongings
>she fought her way back into my life because she faked "caring" about me
>i cant get a job because she wont give me change for the bus out into the city
>she constantly belittles me even though i'm looking for a chance to escape (i regularly would hide in the bathroom as she screamed and banged on the door, i'd have earphones in)
>if i ever stood up to her, or pushed her away for her physical attacks my dad would attack me
>i hit him over the face with my electric guitar for grabbing me by the neck
>have a string of relationships with horrendous (one was also physically abusive) women
>finally meet someone nice, cut off almost all contact until now

There's fucktons more. There are so many things that happened. Its hard to write it all out because its literally my entire life. At one point my mom even threatened violence on a girl i brought to meet her for the first time. Its just endless.

I'm already dealing with my mom lying saying she didn't do anything wrong, didn't swear and blaming me for the incident today. When i was young i often thought about suicide and even homicide directed at my mother as well.

The saddest thing is i'm a really confident happy person now, and although i have my faults i'm really embarrassed about my childhood and how far abuse pushed me into hate.

*it's not like I was the one choosing to wast their time

also OP asked
>When you keep tabs on them, have you noticed them grow or become better people?
>What have you seen?
no, quietly keeping tabs on them has only further confirmed they aren't changing and either cannot or refuse to. my father actually outright state he basically hated me when another relative mentioned me on f*cebook. my mother waited four years then sold the house I lived 18 years in and moved to a large urban area. I suppose I get satisfaction in that the place she moved to is objectively an expensive shithole and her area of living isn't nice, I get the distinct feeling she did not know how much times have changed. her life seems pretty empty. my sibling seemed to drift along in life, not figuring their shit out (which is VERY not like my sibling). my sibling never attempted to leave our mother. and now my sibling is stuck living with our mother AGAIN and I think something is wrong with my sibling's health because of the really weird pattern of massive hairloss my sibling now has (not even 30 yet too). looks genuinely ill but I don't know with what.

>my father actually outright stated he basically hated me when another relative mentioned me on f*cebook

Wow, thats fucking awful. You made the right choice, what a retard.

>grow up with a cold mother who doesn't spend time with me, just buys me toys sometimes which is nice
>dad is never, ever home
uhhhh wow aren't we similar??
>for some reason i end up really fucked up and would play with my own shit (i grew out of this thank god)
I did not do this but it's very common for abused children to want to smear their feces around.

I get what you mean, how can one get over child abuse when it's what formed who you are? It would be like trying to jump over oneself.

>although i have my faults i'm really embarrassed about my childhood and how far abuse pushed me into hate.
I guess I'm embarrassed too about my childhood/origin but I'm not at all embarrassed or feel bad about how much it's made me hate or how far it's pushed me into "places" a lot of people would never understand. I just don't feel bad about it all. It helped me survive honestly.

I know right? Even if someone does hate their kid, posting that online publicly where anyone could see it? Really bad move oh his part, it would make many people think he's shady. Plus, why cut off a potential source of help/love/resources? He's guaranteed that I will never seek him out nor help him, ever.

Honestly terrifying to think about that he said that and wasn't reprimanded. I feel its abysmal to treat a child of any age that way.

I know you might still feel terrible things about what happened, but hopefully we will both find peace.

Part of me is really vicious and thinks about taking advantage of my parents while i still have some contact. It makes it easier to do terrible things if you have zero empathy or love. But i tell myself i don't want to be terrible like them, despite wanting to take everything they have because i feel i "deserve" it.

so OP let me know if you have any other questions or want to bounce an idea off of me.

for OP or anyone else who may need this:
small/medium sized towns do NOT have resources to get out all the way. your best bet is to get enough money to get a bus ticket (secretly) then go to a city with a youth shelter if you're under the age of 21. do not hint at all that you're going to leave and do not have an epic showdown where you dramatically leave in front of them.
leave only at night when they're for sure asleep or leave while they're at work.

here is a shelter for 18-20 year olds in Denver:
urbanpeak . org/denver/about-us/about-urban-peak/about-urban-peak/

here is a shelter for I think under 25 year olds? at the least for 18-20 year olds in San Francisco:
larkinstreetyouth . org

even if these shelters are too far or whatever you might be able to call or email them to ask for references to other shelters elsewhere in the USA.
shelters get packed in winter and there was always more boys than girls and the place I was at ran out of male bed spots before female bed spots. summer time has more availability for bed spots. it's better to be homeless as a teenager when you're strong and young versus getting older and having health problems.

also, this group on leddit may help (I never posted but lurking on there for a few years helped me):
old.reddit . com/r/raisedbynarcissists/

joining the military is an option, try to aim for a non-combat job in either the coast guard, navy or air force. the morality of this may rankle you but many abused kids do not get much of a choice.

if your family will not give your your documents (like birth certificate, etc) call the non emergency police line and ask for a police escort to pick up your stuff. by law they have to give you your documents.

I'm so sorry you went through this. This shit had me crying.

You gave me everything and more. I think you understand me when i say its all so tiresome. Hopefully you're happy and healthy

You're right, no one said shit to him about that (that I know of anyway). It only expedited my understanding of him/his role in my life. He was never really any better than my mother. Saved me time wondering if he was capable of loving his kid (nope!).

Not a bad idea but at the same time very bad for your mental health. However, my parents seem to not have anything that's worthwhile. Even if they did I think I would pass on it.

The thing is, even if you are "bad" or "pitiless" (lmao) or whatever, pretty much nothing I do can ever compare to my parents. They mogged me in the evil department, I will admit that.
>purposefully creating an innocent life form to torment and neglect for nearly 20 years when they VOLUNTARILY chose to create me and I wasn't even their first kid so they knew what they were getting into
It will sound convenient and maybe a bit concerning but what can I do that even comes close to that? What other evil comes close to that?Not many things IMO. Sure, does what I'm typing sound very self serving and maybe a bit evil itself? Maybe. Do I care? No.

I found some peace by not forgiving my family, leaving all of them permanently with absolutely no contact and leaning INTO these feelings. Genuinely. It helped me survive too.

I think in the case of your father, is people attract like-minded individuals. Why would anyone around him hold him to a standard if he doesn't have any high standards to begin with? Thinking about this you're lucky you got out of there. My parents are completely shut in. My dad has one friend who's a 500 lb monster that tried to get my mom to cheat with him. They're all still friends.

Because of this i have problems tolerating people with obvious issues. I'm quick to cut out ANYONE who shows an ounce of irresponsible behaviour. Tolerance is a big theme in my life right now because i have none.

Really? That's very touching user. Sincerely. I have found my ability to feel things has been largely destroyed. I want to feel good that you're feeling for me - but right now all I feel is slight wonder and curiosity.
>Someone is feeling for me? Huh... how about that.
I can't seem to FEEL stuff, almost always only THINK it now. But you're very sweet, so thanks a bunch. Don't be too sad or stress too much OK?

You too user. I do have problems in my life but I'm still married to BF (now husband) #2 and he's got a good career and we have health insurance and food so not too awful.

To all anons: leaving toxic people is WORTH IT! You do NOT have to forgive to move on! Forgiveness of bad people is NOT a virtue! You CAN leave!

OP here, this is me as well. I criticise, think about and deconstruct everything. I'm very critical and good at problem solving (even with myself), but i'm a terrible procrastinator because of a lot of this.

I remember looking through the windows of vehicles with wonder as a child when everything seemed so big still. I'm striving to find that "feeling" in my life again and i've only just got small hints of it the last 5 years.

>Thinking about this you're lucky you got out of there.
For sure, I am lucky that I wasn't trapped forever with her due to having a health issue.

>Because of this i have problems tolerating people with obvious issues. I'm quick to cut out ANYONE who shows an ounce of irresponsible behaviour. Tolerance is a big theme in my life right now because i have none.
I don't think this is a bad thing... after being raised up with abuse your "normal meter" is fucked. It will take a while to calibrate it. It's normal to have high walls up after one leaves. I'm a homebody who tolerates no bullshit and I'm ready to be aggressive whenever (this has saved me from being either sexually assaulted/mugged/killed).
It's good to eventually ease your distance from others but forever I will always been more inclined to less tolerant than moreso. Always listen to your instincts and your gut feeling. Tolerance is pretty overrated IMO but life is tricky. The best thing to do is to get really lucky and find an overall scene/job/area with semi-decent people. Then I found my husband doesn't have to tolerate shit people and since these people are cool they don't mind that his wife never attends outings.

Yes really and I barely cry. I can relate to you on the ability of not being able to feel things. I've been this way since the last time I tried committing suicide. Mostly emotionless. It's to the point where if someone tried to hurt me emotionally, they most likely couldn't since I dont have the feeling for it. It's like "oh okay" and just move on for me. But enough about me. I wish you the best user, and I will do my best not to feel too sad or stressed.

Ahh... I think we may be a bit different, for me it's not so much being in my head and over analyzing so I don't exist out there, living life. It's more like I've been purged of softness, niceties, feelings themselves besides irritation, aggression and "blankness." What's really good is
>getting away from toxic family
>beginning to recognize the impact it's had on you, reflecting and processing your upbringing
>tackling your strengths and weaknesses
Which we are both doing right here in this thread.

I know what feeling you mean, that's largely gone along with most everything else. It's like I try to twitch a muscle but the muscle just won't move no matter what. Emotional atrophy? Oh well, I grew the ones that helped me get through. My husband says there's nothing wrong with me, even though I'm much colder than him.

What recreates that feeling of life and vastness is finding something I'm just really into. I love to read and research stuff. Trying to get my health in a good place too, that's always good.

Oh yeah, I think probably only my husband could really hurt me emotionally now. Like sorry, my fucking mother absolutely would wipe the floor with most people. I remember adults being scared of her when I was a kid and teenager kek.

I've never attempted it but I did want to die growing up. Now I see while there is nothing wrong with doing so, there's no point to end things early unless you're sick or old or just 10000% done. I think what all living things above everything else have in common is our suffering and our coming death. I found this to really resonate with my worldview, maybe it would be of interest to you or someone else one day (it's somewhat long but good):
>pensum . ca/word/translations/georges-bataille/the-practice-of-joy-in-the-face-of-death/