Ok so, long story short, in my country I can only possess firearms of calibers smaller than 9mm so that leaves me with .380's as the best choice so, I want you to tell me which of the following pistols is the best and why:
>Beretta 84 FS (synthetic or nickel)
>CESKA ZBROJOVKA model CZ P07,
>Colt Mustang .380,
>Bersa Thunder 380,
>Glock 25 or 28 or 42 or 43,
>Browning 1911 Black Label 380
It depends on what you find important. Conceal ability? Round count? Cost? I personally would go Glock>Beretta>Bersa>CZ
Belize?
Cost is no problem.
Being able to conceal it is mildly important.
But... lethality is what matters most to me, and to have something that does not get stuck in the moment of truth.
Do tell me, if each of these different pistols were shot using the same .380 bullets, each will have the same penetration?
Can it be 9x18?
.380 ACP is 9mm caliber.
The Beretta is the obvious answer anyway.
More so depends on ammuntion. However, I wouldnt worry too much about penetration. .380 is more than sufficient as self defense regardless of what memes dictate.
Any additional velocity and penetration would come from whichever has the longest barrel. But I personally would choose the Mustang just because I am a 1911 fag and Mustangs are quite flat and easy to conceal imo. But the Glock is the all around best choice practically.
Adding to this, I find. 380s to be fickle bitches with hollowpoints. The glock is going to be the most reliable feeder of hollowpoints and other speciality ammos
Denmark maybe?
en.wikipedia.org
>Approved calibers: All calibers under 9mm (9x19, 38 Spl, 357 magnum, .32acp etc.), plus a limited number of larger calibers; .40sw, 45 ACP, 44 Spl.
In my current understanding, .380 is "small" 9mm whereas true 9mm is a higher caliber
I'd like to know if I can kill someone with 2 or less shots using standard .380 bullets. I ask because, in the legislation of my country, shooting someone more than 2 times counts as premeditated murder while 2 or less still counts as legitimate self defense.
I can only have access to the models I listed in the original post
I am from the other Belize, as in, Mexico
Didn't know other countries had the same dumb legislation on guns
>mexico
The only answer is an FN FiveSeven then
As stated before, I can only possess firearms of calibers smaller than 9mm and can only buy the models I listed in the original post. If I could buy whatever I want, I'd simpy have an assault riffle. But sadly that's not my case.
The Five-Seven is a lower caliber than 9mm, but it is not on your list.
>I'd like to know if I can kill someone with 2 or less shots using standard .380 bullets.
If you have good shot placement you can kill with a .22.
That was a cartel joke senpai... realistically I would just buy a Glock as they are going to most reliably feed hollowpoints. Or get the Mustang if you want 1980s style points. All are good choices though.
I was not aware that the FN F-S were smaller than 9mm. Alas, few models are within my reach. At least legally, haven't tried to get one through the black market as of yet.
Good shot placement is a bit of a vague thing. Sure a .22 straight to the skull shot one inch away from the person's head will be lethal, but... you know, that's a luxury one can not afford during a confrontation.
If you go with a black market, why not just get a real mans gun? .45LC has a long history of putting down mexicans
>In my current understanding, .380 is "small" 9mm whereas true 9mm is a higher caliber
There's not such thing as a small 9mm caliber. It's 9mm or it isn't. Caliber is either the diameter of the bore or the diameter of the projectile.
Can you get a KalTek P32 or anything chambered in 32acp? That's 7mm caliber and was used extensively by Europe.
I am a noob regarding firearms but, I kind of imagined Berettas were better than Glocks since they are made from metal and not polymers
>There's not such thing as a small 9mm caliber.
Yes there is, you dummy. 9mm parabellum (9x19) and 9mm kurz (9x17).
New polymer frame pistols really aren't any worse than new metal frame pistols, just don't get a gen 1.
Because in case cops get a hold of me, possessing a firearm of caliber smaller than 9mm is not a federal offense, you just get a fine and the weapon gets taken out of your hands, but if you get caught with anything bigger you end up in jail.
I said that because I read somewhere that .380 is called "smaller 9mm", perhaps the source is wrong
Probably, I'd need to check
How recent must it be to be considered "new"? 2010 and above perhaps?
2010+ would be gen 4 for glocks so that would be totally fine.
The Beretta 84, it has a 13+1 capacity, so by that virtue alone it trumps all the others.
Recoil is also really mild with .380, so follow-up shots are very easy.
You could kill someone with two shots of .380, yeah, aim for center mass.
>shooting someone more than 2 times counts as premeditated murder
That doesn't make any fucking sense. What if someone advances on you with a knife, you shoot him twice, but he resumes trying to attack you? It can logically not be construed as pre-meditated murder if you shoot him again.
Where's the clause or legal precedent for this?
.380 is the imperial measurement, 9mm is the metric.
As said, polymer has come a long way.
You can get a lot of smaller then 9mm calibers. Including 9mm, .380, .32, 7.62×25, .357 magnum, .38 special, .357 sig and many others. If you want penetration maybe look at .357 sig. If you want something that will almost definatly put a man down in 2 shot, look at a .357 Magnum out of a 4 inch barrel.
>9mm parabellum (9x19)
>9mm kurz (9x17)
>both 9mm
Wow it's almost like they're the same caliber!
.380 is 9mm caliber, just a shorter overall cartridge. Where 9mm is 9x19 380 is 9x17. It's not any less than 9mm, it's shorter than NATO standard 9mm Parabellum. The 9mm or 8mm or 7mm refers to the diameter of the bullet not the length.
They are both 9 mm, but one is smaller, gee willikers!
Can you get a shotgun? That would be very useful for home-defense.
Why the fuck would he get .32 when he was looking at .380? Are you brain damaged?
>Why the fuck would he get .32 when he was looking at .380?
Because he keeps saying "smaller than 9 mm" when .380 is in fact a 9mm.
Nice!
In the mexican law, which is pretty dumb by the way, you can only shoot someone 2 times when performing self defense or then you will et charged with premeditated murder, hence why it is mandatory to kill with only 2 shots.
I do thank your wise suggestion
.380 is a 9mm caliber you fucking brain-dead retard.
But they are both the same caliber. If OP can't have 9mm caliber firearms, he can't have .380 ACP either. If he just can't have 9x19mm, he has lots of choices.
The Beretta wins out in capacity and felt recoil. The Glock will work great, but it doesn't hold as much and it'll have slightly snappier recoil.
You're arguing the actual facts, you don't fucking understand that the law here is arbitrary.
9mm, .45ACP, .357 Magnum/Sig, these calibers are not allowed, OP can have calibers like .380ACP or .38 Super
THAT ISN'T FUCKING RELEVANT YOU SPERG, MEXICAN LAW DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE FACTS
Half this fucking a thread doesn't know what a fucking caliber is. You all should be taken out behind the shed and a beaten with a dictionary until you're fucking know what it means. God damn this is why Jow Forums is going down the shitter.
Kindly go be a retard somewhere else. Perhaps /b/ is more to your speed, or rather lack thereof.
No .38 Super or .32 NAA?
So he can't have 9x19mm, but 9mm caliber is fine. Get a 10mm Auto pistol.
Ok, to put thing easier, I can only buy stuff from this list. This list was published by the mexican army, contains the firearms that can be sold to citizens (although for some reason some models over there technically can't be carried by citizens)
I apologize, it's in spanish, but I think everyone can recognize the name of the models
Actually, after just reading some of your laws, 9mm is prohibited. As is .357 and 7.62x25. Basically what it sounds like is they arent defining it as smaller diameter but less power than 9mm. Funny how laws work like that.
That said, with your 2 shot rule in mind, I would get either a .380 Glock 42 if you want an auto loader or .357 magnum in 4 inch as a revolver (you can own .357 revolvers but can only shoot .38 special out of them). I havent read your reloading laws, but you could load .38 special like really fucking hot and they wont blow up a .357 revolver if you follow
9x19mm and .380 ACP (AKA 9mm Short/Kurz/9x17mm) share a roughly similar bullet diameter but are significantly different in performance. 9x17mm has a smaller case capacity, uses less powder and fires a lighter bullet (typically ~70-100 grain vs. 115-145) and has a lower velocity. The advantage is that it can beused in a blowback pistol without it being bulky due to excess slide mass or hard to use due to a heavy return spring.
It is a bit less effective than 9x19mm, but generally good enough for practical defense. IE unlike .25 ACP you aim center of mass instead of head/neck. It is still highly recommended to use quality defensive ammunition to make the most of the available power.
As for the guns available Glocks have a good finish for rust resistance and will have a fairly light trigger pull that's consistent from shot to shot. They tend to be easy to shoot well, but lack a second strike capability if you get a light strike (although this is unlikely if you're using good ammo).
The Beretta is an excellent shooter. It is DA/SA with decocker safety so you need to practice transition from a DA trigger on the first shot to SA on all follow-ups. Also if you carry safety on there's an issue of sweeping it off while drawing without shooting yourself. This is why Glocks caught on, they're just draw and fire.
>these calibers are not allowed
Those are cartridges, ya fuckin moron.
.380ACP is 9x17mm, hence it is smaller than 9mm Luger, which is 9x19mm
The law isn't so much about bigger than this or that, OP is slightly misrepresenting it, it's about which calibers Mexican law decides is a 'military or police' cartridge, thus what normal people can own.
You clearly aren't understanding the fucking situation.
I'm going to rape your anus with a cactus.
This thead is example of why we should ban all IPs from South and Central America.
Ok, so you can have 9x19s, you turd. Get a Sig P226 or a Glock 17, both of which are on that list.
Ok but there's a bunch of .45 ACP and 9x19mm pistols on that list.
They only let cops have those I think.
Maybe I should rape your face with a motherfucking dictionary.
OP, you can also have pistols in .38 Super, I want to suggest looking at one of those instead of .380ACP
That's a good option too. Carry gun in .38 Spl. with +P loads approaching .357 velocity.
On paper a 13 shot automatic has the obvious advantage but for carry a revolver can be pretty good too. The automatic is definitely better against multiple attackers, but can be forced to jam if pressed against a target/pushed out if battery/obstructed from cycling/obstructed ejection port. If OP gets jumped and doesn't draw until the attacker is already on top of him a revolver us more likely to get all 5-6 shots off since there is less to stop it from working.
It's also a draw and fire deal like the Glock only it has a long DA pull so it's a little safer to carry if he can't get a kydex holster to keep shit away from the trigger.
Can he have any of the .40 S&W on that list?
I deeply thank your answer and the time you spent in writing it.
I know but, like said, it's a bit less about actual technicalities and more about what daddy government says it's "military-use only" and what is allowed to citizens.
I apologize. If it brings you any relief, any help I can get from this thread may result in a slight reduction in the mexican population when the time comes.
Hmmm... I'll have to check that tne
Let's say stopping power is not something I care much about but more about actual lethality.
From the list, the ones I can have without extra paperwork are the ones I mentioned in the original post.
What a gay list. Get the 84FS already.
Those are under the header 'Personal Militar' which means 'military personnel'. Why they have an approved list of handguns I don't know, does the Mexican military force soldiers to buy their own sidearms?
According to this graphic, .380 IS different than 9mm
Of the guns in the OP I'd get the glock 25 or 43 depending on your hand size and ability to conceal a larger pistol.
Unfortunately I am a small individual, only 5 feet and 3 inches in height actually, so I'd say my hands are... small as well?
A very hot .38 special is going to be quite lethal.
From what I read, you guys can have .38 super but cant carry it..
>I don't know what caliber means
As usual.
Then definitely the 43. Definitely go to a physical gun store or better yet a range that does rentals and give it a grab to see if it feels ok in your hand before dropping the money, though.
I'd look at it this way.
Do you feel you are more likely to be jumped by a single dude and have to draw/fire at an awkward position (perhaps even shoot from inside your pocket)?
Revolvers are good for that. If it's a cartoon fight cloud kind of deal and you're like cats in a bag it is more likely to work.
Do you feel like you're going to deal with multiple attackers or one that's well armed (like an assault rifle)?
The automatic will work better. Go for maximum available magazine capacity and carry spares. Unlike the revolver you can lay down some suppressive fire in order to move (ideally break contact and GTFO) and you can sustain it as long as you have spare loaded magazines. But while you can shoot a person off of you, it's best to keep a safe distance from threats. Trouble is that's not always possible.
Both are viable options with strengths and weaknesses. Personally I'd feel well armed carrying either, but I don't live where you live and deal with what you deal with.
Just report him.
diffen.com
Hope it clarifies it
There are no gun stores down here, it's either getting the few allowed ones from the army itself in it's only store or take the plunge and go into the black market
To be honest, I just want to take revenge against the person who murdered my cat. Perhaps this statement will get me banned, but at least I got some insight in what I want to know. You were all pretty kind.
homie please. just buy a new fucking cat
>I just want to take revenge against the person who murdered my cat.
user, please.
This will actually work in your favor for a sub-compact .380. Some pistols are so small that people with larger hands end up dangling their pinkie finger when trying to hold them. They can be fired like this, but its not optimal. Smaller hands can enable you to get a full grip, which is important for such light pistols.
I found that, indeed, the .380 is not the same thing than 9mm. I do appreciate your insistance on the purity of the terms though.
Oh please, my actions will result in less mexicans existing in the world, so you should all be happy about it.
I'd tazer, hog-tie and gag them, and then lock them in a room with a mess of stray cats and bowl of water and a litter box. Check back in about a week.
What about .38 suppah? It's actually hotter than 9x19mm by a fair pinch. Heard it used to be pretty popular over there, might have gotten the banhammer by now though.
Otherwise go Bersa, whatever model fits your concealment needs. If you ever get to use it on the go (and assuming CC is not so kosher), ditching it won't hurt as much as a glawk.
And don't go loco over your round of choice. Ultimately, pistols of *any* caliber are just not reliable man-stoppers. The human body can withstand a ginourmous amount of hurt and keep trucking for a while, so you're hoping for a "morale kill" or CNS shot. Hitting the spinal cord will fuck up motor functions but it's a crapshoot if they will be paralyzed enough to not return at least one round.
And last: you might want to consider grabbing a .22 lr for practice since .380 is price-y enough in the US. Personally I don't think one needs to shoot that much to be competent enough to perform well at self-defense ranges (50 rounds a month+lotsa dry drills at home is fine for my needs), but other Jow Forumsommandos will tell you otherwise.
Cheerios from a fellow latambro.
From the top of the wrist to the tip of the middle finger, extended, my hand is 7 inches long. Hope that suffixes for the one you so kindly recommend, or for the glock you recommended earlier
I can not afford all that. If I had resources, I'd instead kidnap them and then torture them to death.
You'll really need to handle and shoot them before you can make an informed decision. Shooting ranges often rent them just for this purpose.
Get a Tokarev-M57 chambered in 7.62x25 9 shot slim pistol which only costs 200$
To my knowledge there are no shooting ranges in where I live, sadly.
Also, I'm gonna sleep. I thank all of you for having answered my questions. To be honest I didn't think I'd get actual answers here, I thought everyone would just mock me but you were all rather kind.
Thank you.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, take the CHILLEST of pills and reconsider this. Your catbro wouldn't have wanted this. There's plenty of ways to fuck with somebody without going full dindu.
Off the top of my head: ninjaing rotten eggs bomb on their property. Torching their car. Spreading rumours about them on social media. Use your imagination.
>He has not heard about the glorious .22magnum
If you live in mexico you might aswell just get a full auto rifle or whatever. Shouldn't be too hard to find. Corrupt a cop or something
Typical spic
You wouldn't teach him anything by killing him. You'll just start shit that someone else will finish. Bad idea.
Instead of buying a gun I recommend being more creative. Prank him really hard. Fuck his shit up without giving him a justification to do anything to you, maybe without him even knowing who did it. That's the real Jow Forums way.
>without going full dindu.
Some fucker killed his pet for no reason so stop with muh being a "chill" "better" person.
You can't fuck with a man's property and get away with it
Rape his wife
>Off the top of my head: ninjaing rotten eggs bomb on their property. Torching their car. Spreading rumours about them on social media. Use your imagination.
Why is behaving like a 14 year old a better solution?
Probably because none of those things are premeditated murder.
Q predicted this
>OP offs the fucker
>OP goes to jail and goes thru literal hell on earth
>even after he gets out, narcos will probably nail him to put work for them
Alright Jow Forumsid.
I thought Mexicans could own .38 super
No one goes to Mexico. People there wear Sombreros and look like Mice. Like the famous Mexican said "Abare ambare
But they will still get you in bother with the law, why not... Tell...The...Law....
Ohhhh I know, hard concept right. You will get the hang of it, behaving like an adult that is. OP this isn't hollywood, you are not the star of Taken. Shooting a man over a dead cat is silly to say the least. Tell the cops or go over to his place and ask him wtf.
7.63x25mm Mauser
>Mr. Police-o, me gato is muerto please do sometin' *abloo bloo*
Get fucking real. OP is on his own. Any 12-y-o could pull those gorilla pranks and not get caught, and in the unlikely case he does get caught he will get a slapped on the wrist (specially compared to chilli con murder).
if you are in mexico just get a 1911 in .38 super. thats like the national handgun in mexico. all you need is a non military caliber. .38 super is powerful and non military and easy to get and common in mexico becasue thats what 99% of your compadres use
dont forget the virgin mary jewel grips