What is the point of SMGs nowadays? What can they do what an converted assault rifle can't?

what is the point of SMGs nowadays? What can they do what an converted assault rifle can't?

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Aimed fullauto fire at a compact length, as a bonus without making you deaf.

Not much. Ultra compact machine pistols work for security forces or for things like a pilot’s weapon where it absolutely needs to be stupid tiny, but really that’s about it.

I’ll say that full sized SMGs can be stupid controllable on full auto, which is fun as hell. But a carbine doing rapid semi auto is a more practical weapon.

Reducing recoil, muzzle flash, noise, overall size...

None, SMGs are obsolete and even PDWs aren't as good as a carabine

Less recoil, less weight, better rate of fire, cheaper, smaller, more reliable.

You can only go so far with an assault rifle conversion before you need to change the fundamental design. The gas tap alone means you've got a minimum barrel length.

Most SMGs use a simple blowback design that's very easy to maintain and has little that can go wrong.

The 5.56mm NATO has a lot of power and that means you not only have a lot of recoil but also need a chamber and action that can handle that power. As a result you inevitably end up with a heavier design. Any attempt to simplify the stock means you've made the recoil less manageble.

integral suppression with subsonic ammunition.

Much easier to shoot, particularly full auto.
Extremely controllable.
Low recoil.
Hardly any muzzle blast (this is a big deal, particularly for police who don’t get much trigger time).
Lighter and much more compact, a UMP is 5.5lbs and something like 18” long with the stock folded.

They’re good for regular cops to have in the car, or cops guarding/patrolling certain high-risk areas (airports, train stations, stadiums, tourist attractions, city centers etc).

Short barreled 5.56 rifles aren’t pleasant to shoot either, especially if you aren’t wearing ear protection.
An MP5 is still loud, but it’s not going to give you a concussion like a 10.5” AR will.

>converted assault rifle

If you convert an assault rifle to fire a pistol caliber, it becomes an SMG

They have *some* applications when you make them compact like this.

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I keep forgetting noise is an issue.

Anyway, yes. Pistol caliber round are a lot less noisy than rifle or assault rifle rounds. Short barrels make the problem worse because you're either throwing unburned powder or there isn't enough barrel for the gas to fully expand. Either way, the result is the same. Slower bullet but bigger bang.

Easily solved with muzzle devices. You can funnel all of the noise and flash forward. It sucks for anybody in front of you, but fuck that guy.

That adds muzzle length and puts you back where you're started.

Funneling the flash forwards also increases recoil. Action-reaction after all.

It's a pistol round versus a rifle round. Figure it out, gamer retard.

A flashier might add an extra 1-2 inches. Certainly doesn’t put you back into “where you started” territory with barrel length.

Adds recoil sure, but it’s managable. Everybody here acting like a slightly boomy gun is unusable. There are people who can tough it out with short barreled FALs in kill houses, a short barrel on an AR is not that bad. Especially if you take it off again when you’re done and put a longer upper back on. That’s a big advantage over SMGs.

Why don't we see gas trap systems anymore? I feel like they could be useful in shorter weapons.

Because gas traps are stupidly fucking unreliable in every fucking weapon they've ever been applied in, they barely last 100 rounds before they stop working, and that's in clinical conditions.

There's a reason the M1 Garand was converted from using a gas-trap to the piston it would eventually use.

Gonna need more than just a flash hider for shooting a 5.56mm out of a 6" barrel. A flash hider alone also won't help with the noise.

As for the recoil, the problem isn't that the recoil of a 5.56mm is uncontrollable, it's that you've also reduced the mass of the weapon. As a result, you've got a far more unstable weapon and it's more work to deal with.

>Especially if you take it off again when you’re done and put a longer upper back on.
If you're swapping uppers you're basically replacing the gun entirely. The receiver+chamber+trigger assembly is the heart of any gun and the lion's share of the weight. Carrying two of those means it's easier to carry two guns. Consider the light weight of SMGs already and there's no real point on swapping the parts out.

Something like the Noveksi compensator reduces the flash seen while you’re shooting a lot.

A small rifle is not unstable or uncontrollable, this is a case of blowing something out of proportion. Just hold your in right.

I did not mean swapping uppers while literally still in the field on the same outing/mission, goddamn. I mean swapping them at base before setting out depending on the mission. I had a 10.3 and a 14.5 barrel upper on deployment and swapped them out depending on what I was doing.

I swear the same threads just keep repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating repeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeatingrepeating and repeating and repeating and repeating...

Would it be any good to train civilians working in military bases with SMGs? I'd imagine they'd be easier to learn to shoot with than rifles, and in the close quarters we'd be fighting in, if it came to that, it would be sort of beneficial

What are you even talking about?

Cite your sources summerfag

Civilians working in military bases, like me, trained to use SMGs. Good or bad idea?

Irony abounds.

Stupid idea.

>Noveksi compensator
Only modestly reduces the noise. The Flash isn't a problem.

It also adds a good two or three inches to the barrel and when some SMGs have a 7 inch barrel two or three inches counts for a lot.

>A small rifle is not unstable or uncontrollable, this is a case of blowing something out of proportion. Just hold your in right.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

You can one hand an SMG. It's a pistol cartridge. You don't need a stock. You don't need a compensator. You don't need a couple hundred dollars of crap to get an Assault Rifle to be an SMG when the SMG already only costs a couple hundred dollars to make.

> I mean swapping them at base before setting out depending on the mission.

Then what's the point? Just get a 5 lb MP7 and shove it in a thigh holster. Bam, you can take a full sized M16 now and still have a close quarters weapon when it's cramped.

But a very common one. SMGs are cheaper than Carbines so you'll often see them carried over cut down ARs.

>military training civilians to use guns
>civilians that arent military
>on a military base

Gotta love summer

Giving rando military contractors guns to aid in some sort of base defense is retarded and causes more problems than it solves. Shut up and stay in the fucking bunker.

>Taking a full sized rifle and a thigh mounted PDW is better than just configuring your rifle before heading out. Please stop. I’ve done this shit IRL and you have all the wrong loadout priorities.

What, don't you want the cook in the base KFC to operate? You some kind of fascist?

FDF employs a lot of civilians in warehouses etc. Recently we were issued flak jackets, composite helmets and gas masks, so I thought if at some point we'd be issued weapons as well

>as a bonus without making you deaf.
Using suppressed subsonic handgun ammo isn't really ideal either though.

I'd imagine it's an "invasion precaution" of some sort

Try shooting an 8" SMG without ear pro. Now try a rifle round out of an 8" bbl.

It would be far more practical to train and equip people to use shot guns than SMGs.

Doesn't do the same job. Shotguns have excellent knockdown power, but you still need to aim them carefully at short ranges. SMGs are for hosing down a room after you kick a door down or pop up for a short-range ambush, and walking your shots for multiple hits (potentially into multiple targets).

even shitty level II armor can handle a shit ton of rounds from sub sonic handgun rounds

Kill yourself.

Sage