Mememoor no longer

SOCOM is adopting the 6.5 Creedmoor starting 2019
>strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20180601.aspx

So how do ya'll suppose this will affect the civilian market of 6.5 and 7.62 in America? (Army will conduct tests in 2022)

How butthurt are you .30 cal shills?

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Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_depth
soldiersystems.net/2018/06/01/us-army-seeks-manufacturer-for-338-nm-ap-300-nm-ball-ammo/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

They're still behind the curve. The new meme is .224 Valkyrie.

>being 5 years late to the meme boat
>ship has been sailed, refurbished, and then scrapped into razor blades

6.5 is literally the 50th iteration of a 6mm cartridge that always fizzle out - it is a decent round past 800 yards but nothing amazing. The .308 Winchester is going nowhere because of obvious energy advantage under 500 yards. As a decision for a rifle caliber it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. The .300 Win Mag is better all around out to 1000 yards but the military has not made a smart decision in the last 20 years so what should I care.

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This is not new news. This is at least months if not almost a year old. Why do you care?

If I recall they started testing a year ago but only just made the official decision.
I want cheap surplus ammo obviously.

.308 Doesn't have an energy advantage you tard. When shooting different projectiles from the same case, the total muzzle energy is equivalent. And it has greater energy at range because if your idea is to shoot 140-150gr projectiles 6.5mm yields a higher BC than .30.

This of course is totally ignoring the fact that .308s energy at vlose ranges means jackshit for terminal performance, which is why we left it behind years ago. .308 only survives now for its longer effective range.

So if im reading the article correctly, they only plan on adopting this for their DMR's or sniper platforms, and nothing else that uses 7.62

Wow, gg op, you sure showed us, might as well dump all my .308 down a sewer drain

.308 is actually a really good machine gun cartridge. And having belt feds that have better barrier penetration is probably what kept it around more than its use in precision rifles.

.308 doesn't have enough energy for barrier penetration. I keep seeing that here. What cover could you possibly penetrate with a .308 that you couldn't decently with 5.56? Concrete? Nope. Adobe? Hell no. Trees? Maybe if they are small, but then they aren't even concealment anyways. What mythical barrier are you on about?

Better for DMRs from a logistical perspective IMO. Having them use a whole separate cartridge ensures that they won't be dicked out of the match grade ammo they need to really be effective by handrubbing bean counters who'll just hand out whatever shitty M80 ball 7.62 NATO they have on hand.

If they start issuing ELD-M 6.5 mememoor ammo I want pictures of what those delightful little war crimes are doing to hajji innards.

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Surely you don't think .308 is better?
Anyway my takeaway is that there may be a lot of surplus ammo in a decade.

Lungs

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I hope you faggots are tracking that when any dumbass headline says 'SOCOM does X' that means 'Some singular element in SOCOM will probably do X or some officer said SOCOM should do X', not 'All SOF is tracking and doing X'.

>Surely you don't think .308 is better?

I think .300 Winmag would be more flexible. Despite the memes, 6.5 CM is still only really flesh effective out to about 600m because of its velocity and bullet weight constraints. Sure you can punch holes in paper at 1000m with it all day, but you can do the same with 5.56.

>.308 better
Like literally everything else involving ballistics, it depends on the scenario

Your point of the possibility of 6.5 going down in price? Sure, ill give you that, but your claim of .30-cal shills getting btfo'd is inherently false

Thats SOCOM and the Army's problem not mine.
I just want cheap .308

The first point is correct assuming you have a long enough barrel. Most of the larger caliber loads giving higher muzzle energies is due to increased effective case capacity from less protrusion by the bullet into case.

Not as butt hurt as you were apparently I didn't know we were beefing. you were simmering with rage the whole time?

I came here to rejoice, hopefully prices come down and we see more rifles chambered in it. Until then though..... I'll stick with .30 cal.

Surplus .308
See

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>surplus .308 stupid. As in the Army no longer needs their stockpiled .308

And what are you basing that on? If thats you opinion, cool, you do you

>comparing the most basic bitch .308 to the most gucci 6.5
>this much cherry picking

>A-Max is Gucci
Are you poor? The point is that they are in the same class of cartridge (which is obvious since 6.5CM is basically a necking) and the actual disparity in energy is negligible.

Now you’re just moving the fucking goal posts- originally you said they were the same. Now you’re saying the difference is negligible. It’s not negligible. A middle of the road (168 grain) .308 has more energy under 500-600 yards than the equivalent 6.5 and that’s important to a LOT if not most people. The 6.5 is better at extreme distance that’s it

>The first point is correct assuming you have a long enough barrel.
The smaller the bore, the longer the barrel needs to be. The longer the barrel is, the more friction loss you have in the barrel.

Wow. Won't admit you're even sort of wrong. Latching on to technicalities.

Yes there is absolutely no such thing as equivalent, loads go over a range, difference can negligible or large. Don't be disingenuous. And shut the fuck up about your particular pet load being a whole 15% higher in energy than your other choice load which was obviously picked to prove your point. And no that 15% means jack shit, there is absolutely no barrier in the world where the difference in energy in those two particular loads makes a difference especially considering the 6.5 has a much larger SD. And just because that particular load was made that way does not mean an energy equivalent load can absolutely not be made in 6.5CM. Being disingenuous again. You don't know what you are talking about, now fucking leave.

Look at the Nosler load data for .308 and 6.5. 130gr load data maxes out around 2950 fps. What's M80A1 loaded to? The same? Huh.

thought I remember that one military branch is switching to 300 and 338 norma, but fuck if i know

Stupid and pointless. You've got 308 for one job and 338 lapua for another. This is just a dumb science project.

>So how do ya'll suppose this will affect the civilian market of 6.5 and 7.62 in America? (Army will conduct tests in 2022)

Nothing really, SOCOM won't be buying ammunition in quantities to that will increase production and drive down prices.

Sufficient penetration or do they break up quickly like normal ballistic tip?

I think you're confusing 6.5mm creedmore with 6.5mm grendel. Valkyrie isn't really for ar10s and bolt actions. It's for ar15s.

I've been wanting a bolt action .308 because of price and availability, but this may have me reconsidering.

>Wow. Won't admit you're even sort of wrong. Latching on to technicalities.
you did bring up wealth status and shit, he seems a lot more rational than you do

>Sufficient penetration

For an unarmored man, probably.

Hornady's new ELD-M is just rebranded A-max with a more heat-resistant tip. They're frangible, not controlled expansion. If they hit a target that's too dense at too high of a speed it won't penetrate deeply enough.

Thefuck is that a doggo?

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Goat

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I really wanted the Valkyrie to save the 6.8 spc II, but I think with LWRC killed it.

I'm not. Why did we go from .308 to 5.56? The guns are lighter, the ammo is way lighter, you can carry way more of it, and the ballistics are almost the same. .224 Valk is to 6.5 CM what 5.56 was to .308.

Can you neck down 6.8SPC brass to .224 and use that to reload .224 Valkyrie? With 6.5 Grendel you can take 7.62x39 brass size the neck to accept the 6.5 bullet. My understanding is that the .224 Valkyrie uses the same case as the 6.8 with the smaller bullet, so would that be an option?

.224 Valk is something target shooters came up with so they could cram a 22-250 into an AR-15 magwell.

Following that train of thought, could you reload .224 with 40-55 grain bullets? You'd get killer velocities than, and it could provide AR-15s with armor-piercing options.

300 win mag is already replacing half the shit and becoming the standard. All the army m24 actions were long actions, and they are now saying its cause they were doing 300wm all along. USMC is replacing all their short action m40s with AI 300wm.

I am fairly certain the 6.5cm is going to be for the semi auto rifles, since its easier to change up the 308 rifles to it.

I like 6.5 creedmoor and 308, they're just different tools in a tool box.

How heavy is the recoil on a 6.5 Creedmoor? From what I've heard, it's heavier than a 7.62x39 but lighter than a .308. Is the .243 a good general approximation?

Adoption of 6.5 creedmoor won't affect the civilian market too much. 6.5 creedmoor is about the same price as .308 win. I, for one, welcome our new 6.5 overloards.

You're absolutely right. 6.5 is good for putting holes in paper from a distance in a competition, but .300 win mag carries more energy farther, and is objectively kinetically a better round. No way in hell would i bring a 6.5 into a firefight.

My 6.5 is really light recoiling, but the rifle itself is probably 16 pounds as it sits. Iirc its a little lighter recoiling than a 308.

>logistical perspective IMO
That is why Mememore will not be fielded. Causing SMG's and pencil pushing Officers to commit suicide of not being able to shill a new round and get on a board after retiring.

ya its like 243 heavy grain.

For a short action, 6.5 recoil is tame. It's about the same as a .308 win.

I hope this is bait

Barrier penetration not armor penetration you illiterate retard. 7.62x51 can get through light cover (concrete, stone, trees, etc) easier or destroy said cover much easier than 7.62x39 or 5.56. Fact.

And a sub-1000 round barrel life.

Yes, you can.

It's better than .22-250 because the twist rate allows for much heavier bullets, therefore you get much better ballistic coefficient.

Yeah, seams like a lot of people forget about barrel life being a factor, and just focus on velocity and range stats. One of the big factors for 308/7.62 being so well loved is that the barrels for it last forever, and getting 10,000 plus rounds through a barrel is entirely doable.

Friendly reminder that the big Army is adopting .300 Norma Mag

the purpose of magnum rounds is completely different than what normal rifle rounds like 6.5 or 308 are intended for, its like comparing 308 to 223, they are for different purposes
>300 winmag/ 338
long distance shooting bolt actions
>308/7.62/6.5Cr
battle rifles/ semi auto for DMR's and intermediate to long range
>223/5.56
short to medium range rapid fire assault rifles

While not contradicting your point, I'd remind you that there are plenty of semiauto rifles in 338 lapua.

Nobody cares what the purpose is when the roles blend- it’s a pointless triviality. the bottom line is someone has to make a decision what the next sniper rifle will be chambered in. They can choose from any of them and .300 Win Mag is probably the best for long range.

>the roles blend
that's true, but 6.5Cr is to replace 7.62 rifles that are more DMR/sniper support oriented, It's not replacing 338 lapua or 300 winmag
> .300 Win Mag is probably the best for long range.
Correct, but 6.5Cr isn't intended for that purpose, it is to replace weapons like the m110 where the upper can be swapped from 7.62 to 6.5Cr, which is relatively cheap, and the round has lighter weight and lower recoil than the magnum rounds.

What? Lower velocity and more frontal area is not better for barrier defeating. 5.45 will blast through most barriers...

But sectional density, and mass are

Holy fucking shit kill yourself

>5.45 will blast through most barriers...
>5.45
Not that you don't seem very well informed, but barrier penetration and armor penetration are somewhat at odds with each other. High velocity helps punch through armor even if you have to make the bullet lighter to do it (the sharp impact helps break the armor inward, forming a force-concentrating funnel, before the bullet smashes flat and spreads out its force over more armor), whereas high mass helps prevent the bullet from being deflected by obstacles (as in penetrating windshields) or slowed to a halt as it pushes (relatively) soft material out of the way (as in penetrating wooden or brick walls, or sandbags).

Barrier penetration is related to impact depth:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_depth

>U.S. SOCOM (Special Operations Command) has always been quick to take advantage of new technologies and has done so again by adopting the smaller 6.5mm Creedmoor round to replace the NATO 7.62mm round for its semi-automatic sniper rifles.
Why not simply adopt a sniper rifle and machine gun in say 300 NM and be done with it.

Why always overcomplicate things?

Attached: 300-Norma-Magnum-5.jpg (1000x596, 48K)

.300 WSM is best fatboy

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>Why not simply adopt a sniper rifle and machine gun in say 300 NM and be done with it.
because when you have that much powder behind such a relatively small caliber you will wear out your barrel very quickly the military will not adopt weapons that need barrel replacements every few thousand rounds, especially not for a machine gun, this is why 338 has been successful over other 30cal rounds.

soldiersystems.net/2018/06/01/us-army-seeks-manufacturer-for-338-nm-ap-300-nm-ball-ammo/

you know, soon I'm going to be a very beautiful woman and you're going to feel super fucking gay for me.

and no, .308 win is best. Fagboy.

I like my actions like I like my women, short and sweet.

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>at range
What kind of ranges are you talking about here? I'm not going to be dropping an elk at 800yds with a 308 but that's not exactly what I'm hunting now is it.

>the 50th iteration of a 6mm cartridge that always fizzle out
.257 Weatherby Magnum says hello.
If the army was smart they'd have dropped the 7.62 ages ago for this sexy bad boy (center):

Attached: 800px-.257_Weatherby_Magnum_Cartridge_with_.308_Win_and_.375_H&H[1].jpg (800x999, 92K)

Im a fan of the 223wssm

>using .300 win fag in a firefight

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>wear out your barrel very quickly
I knew someone would bring up that argument.

Fine, just go with 338 NM for both then. Pic related already exists so now all you need is a semi auto sniper rifle.

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How would lighter bullets cause shorter barrel life?

Seriously, pick up a reloading manual.

A lighter faster bullets wears down the barrel quicker than a slower bigger one.
.308 has a much longer barrel life than 6,5x55 loaded with the same bullet weight and Vo. Cross section density, bearing surface, and the area upon which the gases act upon.

I own at least 5 reloading manuals. I do plenty of reloading. The biggest factors in barrel life are type and amount of powder and speed of the bullet. All other things equal, a faster bullet will wear out a barrel less because the flame is on the throat for a shorter period of time. Now I know what your going to say, so I will repeat ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL

338 has way too much recoil for this role, and will not fit through the receivers of guns currently chambered for 308

>The .308 Winchester is going nowhere because of obvious energy advantage under 500 yards.
Of course, that's why soldiers are all issued 7.62mm rifles and not sad, low energy 5.56mm.

It wouldn't be the lighter weight, it'd be the crazy velocities seems to want.

Anything over 3.2k fps is generally considered a barrel-burner.

Humans cant see past 60fps anyway!

Already exists semi auto 338 AR based rifle, but I don't think that is the intent of the switch from 308 to 6.5 even with that machine gun they had to implement a recoil system to reduce the kick of the recoil, which would kill accuracy on a precision weapon

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