During September 11th, Air Force jets were scrambled into the air after the first collision. One of an Air Force's primary missions is to defend their respective nations' airspace, so this makes since.
My question is, they scrambled....but what exactly did they do? Did they just hang out in the air, make some noise for their own sake? Did they do something effective?
Any Air Force historians here who could explain the effectiveness of the USAF on Sept 11, 2001?
Other urls found in this thread:
9-11commission.gov
en.wikipedia.org
politico.eu
en.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
We're not here to help you study your PDG.
they were ordered by Rumsfeld to stand down and not engage
There were a lot of questions about what they could possibly do on that morning. They didn't have time to arm jets with missiles so they couldn't shoot any potential hijacked planes down. There was talk of ramming planes with the jets to stop them and that's all I know.
They scrambled and headed towards the coast as is the standard practice to stop an incoming threat to the United States.
Then they were directed towards the aircraft and arrived at the sites after the impacts had taken place.
Lol top kek the airforce were trying to find planes with trasmitters offline. They had to identify the planes number by thier tails before getting clearance from the base to engage the correct plane. Afterward the government grounded all flights as a solutions. The reason why everything was delayed because telephones were the primary device of communication. The airliners at first were contacted about the possible hyjacking from the plane crews more than an hour before NORAD was notified.
That is some tin foil bullshit you said there.
World Trade Center:
0824: US air traffic control became aware that Flight 11 had been hijacked
0834: Otis ANG is informed of the hijacking
0846: Two ANG F-15's of the 102nd Fight Wing are ordered to scramble, are airborne by 0853
Following the impact of Flight 11 on the North Tower of the WTC, the F-15's are directed south at supersonic speeds, arriving at 0909 over Long Island.
Unfortunately the tower impacts were at 0845 and 0902.
Assuming that's true and there were no missiles aboard, couldn't they just do gun runs?
Even if hit with a missile an airliner wouldn't just evaporate, if it was close to a city it'd do severe damage anywhere it dropped, guns or missiles or ram.
Bush & Rumsfeld did 9/11
stop trying to cover up for them
Could the Air Force be considered incompetent? Would their incompetence lead to a bungled response to a threat, a non-military threat at that?
Pentagon:
0856: Flight 77 deviates from its course and turns off its transponder. The report of its loss is mistaken for another aircraft, Flight 11.
0935: Flight 77 is picked up on radar headed for Washington DC. Fighters from Langley are sent to intercept.
0937: Flight 77 impacts the Pentagon
>Flight 77 impacts the Pentagon
no plane hit the pentagon. that was a missile
United 93:
0928: US air traffic control becomes aware that Flight 93 is behaving erratically.
Over the next half hour the reporting was lagged due to the chaos of the previous two strikes, and the US military became aware at 1007, four minutes after Flight 93 had crashed.
>Flight 77 deviates from its course and turns off its transponder.
How to out-stealth the USAF: Turn off the transponder. This is the airborne equivalent of the 2002 Millennium Challenge. Except more pathetic.
Whatever you say Airfag. Why take responsibility for being a failure when you can blame outside forces? Its so much easier.
it was an US Space Command missile
remember that time the air force wasn't a complete burden to everyone around them and wasn't a danger to both allied and enemies alike?
there is a reason the usmc and navy have their own aviation wings.
Is it not obvious that flight 93 was shot down? They had time to scramble fighters for the last plane. They made the whole passengers bought the jet down story for propaganda. The real truth is some poor pilot has to shoot down an airliner full of Americans. That was too traumatic for the country to handle after losing the twin towers the same day. The story stuck due to willful ignorance
This conspiracy falls apart given that there's far too many third parties involved, and if you start saying they have to be involved too, you're stuck in the loop of conspiracy.
>it's almost been 20 years since 9/11
where did the time go?
Jow Forums. Mostly Jow Forums.
there is no past
9/11 is just more alternate history propaganda made up by (them) in order to control us
the jets were pursuing non existent missions as far away from new york and washington airspace as possible
9-11commission.gov
You can find all the whole commission report here. Some of it was unclassified, but I guess it wasn't that big of a deal because I've not heard much since.
Yeah, so many 3rd parties in a fighter jets with encrypted communication and a passenger jet.
Why not post the Warren Report for transparency faggot
The air force was caught completely off-guard. Some jets were launched without weapons with instructions to ram the airliners if necessary. Nobody expected an attack using a civilian airliner, and thus no precautions taken to prevent one. Ultimately the jets were launched too late and ill-equipped, and I don't think any of the jets accomplished their objectives.
If they didn't have time to strap on missiles what makes you think they had time to load the gun, which takes considerably more time.
The air force was running a "training op" with scary similar details as the real world attack and the airmen had no idea whether it was real time or exercise....INSIDE JOB!
Do you think the American military does not keep jets loaded for bear ready to scramble? LOL kind of along the same logic as my pistol always having one in the pipe!
jesus fucking christ... AF has fallen lower than anyone ever expected.
imagine how these cunts would do against real pilots of our enemies!??!?!
Gee, sounds like a strong officer corps with strong preparedness within the air force.
>does not keep jets loaded for bear ready to scramble?
Prior to 9/11, during peace time, in the homeland. It's much more likely than you think.
airman=/=pilot
Do you actually think the U.S. military doesn't keep all ammunition under lock and key until a mountain of paperwork is filed out with an intended use already designated?
How the fuck aren't CAPs part of national security by default? The AF played nuclear chicken with the Russkis for a decade or so, yet the AF doesn't even run a CAP in 'peacetime'? Why do we pay for this?
maybe but also pretty resonable to think the cockpit was rushed, i mean it already had presumbaly happened once by two people so.
A lot of people in this thread seem to be blaming the Air Force or calling them incompetent. But it was a very different time back then. At that point, the cold war had been over for almost a decade, there were zero threat to America proper. We didn't have fighters on constant standby alert like we do now (as a result of 9/11). Also, up to that point, civilian airliners had never been used as offensive weapons. When an aircraft was hijacked, it was pretty standard that it would fly to some shithole country and the hijackers would demand something like prisoner release, money or some shit.
Also, the people above saying that unarmed jets were given order to ram are right. Fun fact: one of the military pilots ordered to ram flight 93 was the daughter of the pilot for that flight. It was crashed before she was able to intercept though.
As an Air Force Ammo troop I can say it's not nearly that difficult.
We have the bomb dump, full of munitions, all with their little category codes and condition codes and blah blah blah.
Among that pile of pew pew is the War Reserve Material [WRM], or munitions that are reserved for use in combat operations.
Prior to 9/11 WRM sat in it's earth-covered igloo and didn't do anything until we went on deployment. After 9/11 we have an igloo or so of bullets, missiles, and misc that sit on standby while 1LT or Captain Snuffy sits in the pilot break room on his phone on scramble standby.
There isn't a mountain of paperwork; if the order is given out for a jet to scramble, even within US airspace, AMMO has it delivered to the line for upload as fast as humanly possible. Trust me, we have a system in place for getting uploads done fast.
Neat. This is why I like this board--we have people everywhere
>or at least larping there
>how are CAPs not part of national security by default
They are now, part of Operation Noble Eagle. But prior to 2001 we didn't expect a civilian airliner to suddenly get hijacked and slam into a building. It's one thing to react to a TU-95 thats making its way across the Pacific and I'm sure the bases that usually handled those interceptions were in a much readier state than those on the East Coast who had never had to intercept an aggressor
Man sitting on my ass on Saturday for ONE fucking blows.
probably better than they did on 9/11 because it would be closer to the scenario they've actually trained for
That's the only reason to have fighters in the sky, of course.
>these are going in my AF cringe compilation
Ho Lee Fuc, the absolute state of the us military.
>Do you think the American military does not keep jets loaded for bear ready to scramble?
Not during post Cold War pre-9/11 security environment. With post Cold War budget cuts USAF had closed enough radar stations that they didn't really have US airspace fully covered with primary radars, they literally deployed NATO AWACS to ensure there was full coverage with primary radars, USAF didn't have enough AWACS that it could pull out of overseas operations.
>Prior to 9/11
>After 9/11
That is slight difference. Prior to end of the Cold War they used to have armed fighters on stand by in pretty much every airbase. Response times were far faster than those are now, a lot due to simpler aircraft. Prior to computers and shieet fighter could take off much faster as systems didn't do built in testing when turned on...
How many planes were on the air?
It must be nice to see hundreds of fighter jets scrambling all over the skies and shitting on ATC.
Kind of like Independence Day with more variety.
>they didn't know!
>they weren't prepared!
>Operation Northern Vigilance, was a NORAD operation which involved deploying fighter aircraft to locations in Alaska and Northern Canada. In order to simulate a hijacking situation including terrorist pilots.[1]
en.wikipedia.org
>“Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” The CIA’s famous Presidential Daily Brief, presented to George W. Bush on August 6, 2001, has always been Exhibit A in the case that his administration shrugged off warnings of an Al Qaeda attack.
>Tenet vividly recalls the White House meeting with Rice and her team. (George W. Bush was on a trip to Boston.) “Rich [Blee] started by saying, ‘There will be significant terrorist attacks against the United States in the coming weeks or months. The attacks will be spectacular. They may be multiple. Al Qaeda’s intention is the destruction of the United States.’” [Condi said:] ‘What do you think we need to do?’ Black responded by slamming his fist on the table, and saying, ‘We need to go on a wartime footing now!’”
>“What happened?” I ask Cofer Black. “Yeah. What did happen?” he replies. “To me it remains incomprehensible still. I mean, how is it that you could warn senior people so many times and nothing actually happened? It’s kind of like The Twilight Zone.”
>And there was one more chilling warning to come. At the end of July, Tenet and his deputies gathered in the director’s conference room at CIA headquarters. “We were just thinking about all of this and trying to figure out how this attack might occur,” he recalls. “And I’ll never forget this until the day I die. Rich Blee looked at everybody and said, ‘They’re coming here.’ And the silence that followed was deafening. You could feel the oxygen come out of the room. ‘They’re coming here.’”
politico.eu
>The only people involved would be the fighters
This is why you're an idiot, you're so stupid you can't see beyond it.
>form up at 0530 to go to range
>briefings for an hour
>draw weapons
>get to range at 0900
>wait for three hours while the higher ups deal with range control
>first fire order at 1300
No, guy. Besides some anti nuke squadrons in the 90s, the military doesn’t just keep weapons available and ready.
they flew in circles until the kikes were finished doing their work
>>implying the military used phones as a primary source of communication in 2001
ok shekelberg
As opposed to....?
direct messaging to the HUD in pilots helmets
Are you retarded
So why don't they have armed fighters sitting their like the other user mentioned like during the cold war?
They do.
Unfortunately the USAF doesn't have Russia's vast experience of shooting down civilian airliners
Daily reminder that the USAF currently cucks out every other strike aircraft using a large propeller airlifter with howitzers sticking out the side.
Pretty crazy coincidence, but it doesn't exactly specify terrorists hijacking airliners to use them as kamikaze rammers. Before 7/11 when was the last time someone used an aircraft as a ramming device, Imperial Japan?
The point is that it wasn't that much of a surprise. The CIA knew an attack was being planned, they even knew one of the targets (the Pentagon). They were also aware of one of the ways they could do it.
Fug man. Them feels. Like it was yesterday.
Makes sense. Everyone knows the on-board computer wasn't invented until 2002.
Fucking idiot .
But there's attacks being planned all the time. I can say one is being planned right now and it doesn't mean I'm conspiratorially prophetic, it means I understand that the USA has adversaries.
Old fighters didn't rely on computers on every system, just on things like fire control systems. Turn power on avionics, few seconds to spin up gyros and start engine, take off. 4th generation and newer aircraft would still be running BIT a while at that point. Testing the older jets just prior to putting it on standby was bit more time consuming and usually involved van full of electronics and computers.
If you read the article they say they saw plots popping up all over the place then the terrorist cells went quiet. So they had some idea about what some plots might be. I'm not saying they knew the exact scenario, but they had 5-6 scenarios and it was going to be one of them.
If you go to a doctor with a disease, and it presents itself with some symptoms, you will have a better chance at beating it by narrowing it down to several possible ones.
weapons>ammo
:^)
>Unfortunately the USAF doesn't have Russia's vast experience of shooting down civilian airliners
Shooting down civilian airliners is a job for the Navy, son.
I was sitting in my 5th grade classroom when it happened, I’m going to be a father now.
If more AF secfo guys were trained to the DAGRE standard then we'd be copacetic.
Before 9/11 fighters stationed stateside were not armed on the runway until they had an assignment, afterwards there is always one fighter fully armed ready with guns and missiles.
You scramble, then you eat.
Minus in PA.
Nice cope. Explain why the pieces were scattered over many miles, like it blew up in the air! Many died that day. Very tragic.
Congrats
My dad did 18 years as an F-15 pilot in the Air Force. He with the 60th Fighter Squadron at Eglin Air Force Base(near Pensacola) in Florida on 9/11. He had just arrived at base for the day when the craziness happened and within an hour he was in the air patrolling the Gulf of Mexico and Florida's Gulf Coast. He was kept on constant patrol rotations for 9 days following and wasn't even allowed to leave base until the morning of the 21st.
Damn, if the info would have spread quicker they could have gotten there in time to stop the second attack.
Probably not, that whole sequence is astonishingly fast considering the absolute chaos that the USAF was dealing with.
An F-15 taking off from Otis and flying directly from the end of the runway to NYC at a thousand miles an hour wouldn't get there in time.
Sounds like a lot of USAF pomp and circumstance in an attempt to save face.
Air Force dropped the ball, its kind of their thing. Glad Navy and USMC have their own dedicated CAS wings so we don't have to get tied up in your shitshow.
>My question is, they scrambled....but what exactly did they do?
They downed the last airborne threat.
Kinda spooky
We were talking about that happening 5 years before 9/11 because somebody at work kept crashing planes into stuff on the flight simulator just for laughs.
I worked for delta at the time.
Even if they shot down the second jet it could have possibly killed more people, due to it fragmenting and hitting multiple buildings.
Well yeah. People do stupid shit when there aren’t any consequences. Doesn’t make everyone who plays Doom a potential school shooter
For most terrorists a airliner is a great negotiating piece for freeing captured members, and/or gaining publicity.
My dad was a fighter pilot at Andrews AFB at the time, they were sent up to make sure that all civilian flights complied with the order to land at the nearest airport, he said they had live ammo on the planes if I remember correctly
F16s were the first fighters up in the air weren't they? Those things can be sortie readied pretty damn fast.
No it doesnt. But it freaked at least two of us out on 9/11. My buddy called me and that’s the first thing he said was somebody did it!
The defense secretary who had dule citizenship told NORAD to stand down.
>Before 7/11 when was the last time someone used an aircraft as a ramming device, Imperial Japan?
Bit more modern incarnation of Japan in 51st year of Showa period.
en.wikipedia.org
Obviously not fast enough as 11 Sept proved.
Many Air Force bases keep alert units on the ready for home defense. So basically, aircraft with real armaments in a "semi-cold" state that can be activated at a moments notice. Each of these units have maintenance, operations, and pilot personnel at the ready in case something like this were to happen.
So no doubt, during 9/11 these alert units scrambled to defend the NE portion of the United States.
Speaking from my own experience, for many days after the attack we had jets flying 24/7 operations over NYC as a preventative measure.
People really don't take into account that trying to catch any of the potentially hijacked aircraft was like finding a needle in a needle stack. They had to find one aircraft among HUNDREDS in the North East without anything more than a vague general heading before they were hijacked, which was already wrong since the hijackers diverted them.
Had the passengers on flight 93 not fought back it's very likely the F-16s out of Andrews would have ended up ramming it.
t. worked with Major Heather Penney who would have done it.
And another insight from someone who worked with the 121st at JBAD, there's always two F-16s on standby and ready to go at any moment with pilots chilling out in the ready room. They end up scrambling all of the time whenever the NCR airspace is violated severely enough.
It happens a whole lot more than you would expect.
>thinks Bush masterminded 9/11
No. At most, Bush was notified and he had to comply. Nothing he could do to stop it. Rumsfeld didn’t have a role.
If you want to be more precise, just say (((CIA))) or Mossad.
>The CIA knew an attack was being planned
It's almost like they let it happen....
And yet it was a plane, not a missile.
Then why would they try to warn the US gov to go on a war stance footing?
>Space command
>Missiles