How will burgers ever recover?
Army discovers 10% of M4s are death traps
John Howard
Jonathan Anderson
>re-discovers
This is a known issue, M4 has sucked balls since creation.
Luis Ward
by building political controversy until a new service rifle is adopted and a new doctrine is implemented to incorporated to emphasize new / different capabilities of the weapon while the rest of the western world spends decades trying to resist and ultimately imitate the US doctrinal shift
Eli Carter
So why is this an m4 problem and not an m16 problem or any ar15?
Henry Clark
by ditching the m4 and going back to the m16
Landon Brooks
maintenance schedules, army M4s have been shot to piss and have not been given the proper rework that they need to function acceptably. see also the m249
John Campbell
Holy shit, is there even a point to owning an AR anymore? Why are we fighting wars against soldiers with superior rifles to us. We should just start using AK pattern rifles like the rest of the civilized world.
Blake Foster
M16 was too long to be used in vehicles, the M4 is a shortened M16.
The shortening process was rushed, and the rifle got fucked hard. Despite several attempts to fix it in successive generations, it's still shit.
>get
Ryan Perez
(you) worked real hard on this one
Jordan Thompson
This has always been weird to me. Sure they've been shot to shit but they are also so goddamn anal about cleaning that I can't see how it could get this bad.
Hunter Perry
>stock isn't extended
How do people shoot like this. I'm a manlet and this is the most uncomfortable thing.
Camden King
Wait, the problem is that they're work better than expected?
William Ross
Real answer, the FN batch of M4s and the new ambidextrous selectors are shit.
Faggot here doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The only time guns miss their maintenance checks is when armorers pencil whip them. I fired 4 faggots for just that last year. Every gun gets barrel erosion checks, headspaced and trigger weight checks with gauges IAW their TM
Ryder Sullivan
Fuck off armchair, the M4 is fine, these issue are from FN’s new parts
Jaxson Cook
Cleaning is only one part of PMCS.
Matthew White
I was taught that being up my guys' asses about cleaning was mostly to instill discipline and familiarity with the weapon in addition to just keeping them clean.
is it stupid to clean your rifle after a not shooting at all on patrol? sure, but hey better safe than sorry.
to answer your question, as stupid as this sounds, everyday maintenance and parts replacement are different departments, and getting armorers to do shit that isn't blatant is a size of dick that few men are willing to suck.
Brandon Johnson
If armorers don’t want to fix something that is clearly broken the alternative is to break the gun so it is red tagged and get an entire replacement. I don’t understand why more gun nuts don’t become armorers, those are the kind of people that would want to keep things fixed, instead it’s always greasy brown people that are lazy.
Ryder Gray
>We should just start using AK pattern rifles like the rest of the civilized world.
equips Army with American-made Century Arms AKs
Charles Garcia
no amount of cleaning will replace a spring
Brody Long
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you maintain your shit well and that you actually listen to dudes who come to you with issues. But the facts speak for themselves failure rates for fresh out of box 249s are fractions of those that have been in service for God knows how many years. The Army maintenance schedules are inadequate to prevent these types of failures over an extended service life of a given weapon. As you pointed out having to fire shitbags that didn't do the basic maintenance checks, some weapons are neglected.
Elijah Morgan
>had to fire 4 armorers
>getting armorers to do shit that isn't blatant is a size of dick that few men are willing to suck
>This entire post
Is this a consistent thing with armorers being pieces of shit. I never did land military (navyfag) but why even take a job like that if you aren't going to fucking do it?
Michael Morales
This.
The fact that I, as a private, told my team leader that I needed a new selector detent spring or my rifle couldn't properly go on safe blew a lot of career infantrymans' minds. The lower receiver is completely neglected in day-to-day maintenence, and for good reason: look at the collective intellegence of any given inf platoon.
Blake Bell
>why even take a job like that if you aren't going to fucking do it?
Unit armorers are pulled from the line in army units, i.e. dirtbag is reasonably good at keeping records yet can't hang in a line platoon? To hq platoon with him!
Adam Wright
He goes om Jow Forums, likely gets satisfaction from installing new barrels on a upper after the ild one has been shot out. But a grim minoirty. There should be a DoD wide armorer/maintaince standard like with Aircraft.
Mist Armorers are the laziest dindus that look for a job to skate by with
Isaiah Rodriguez
It’s occurred on Colt-made weapons as well
Carson Hall
had this talk with my MSG, paperwork would be a pain in the nuts if everyone did it but it might be worth it for the important stuf (I would never endorse destruction of Uncle Sam's property *wink*)
Eh, I try to be empathetic, there are a lot of retards on both sides of this fence. I love my guys but they say and do a lot of stupid shit, so I understand armorers taking what we bring them outside of what is obvious / required with a grain of salt. That being said, it is a supply desk job that lets you play with guns, the stand out of that statement should be "desk job" part and the type of person that attracts. no offense to the user in this thread that seemed to actually keep his maintenance on the level.
Lucas Davis
>gun fires if you switch off safe and pull the trigger
>how will burgers ever recover
Brody Peterson
>muh nose to chawgin handul
It's a retarded 1960s logic. People who shoot with the stock collapsed and say "nose to charging handle for consistency" are just unable to aim properly.
Ryan Foster
>So why is this an m4 problem and not an m16 problem or any ar15?
Apparently its a problem in 1 out of 10 ambi selector switches that M4A1's are being upgraded with.
Caleb Cook
> look at the collective intellegence of any given inf platoon.
I like how you said collective intelligence, because looking at individual intelligence would not measure on the IQ scale.
Hunter Jenkins
Armorers and gunsmiths in America are in general shit, both civilian and military. The standard of education and just CARING about the rifle you're fixing is completely gone. Every single gunsmith I've ever interacted with was a piece of shit.
Connor Sullivan
Chair Force here. It sucks for us as Security Forces send out lazy fuckheads to do our work. Osan AFBs M4s have Airsoft bootleg handguards installed on most of their guns and the lasy asshole armorers there don’t care. Also most of the magazines there are old black and green follower magazines becuase they are too lazy to order new ones. Keep in mind this is Korea. Also they only have like 2 gun mounts for M2s out of like 40 M2s and M2A1s, again, becuase no one wants to spend the money and spend the work day fucking off listening to hiphop
Adam Cox
>no one wants to spend the money
welcome to .mil
Liam Phillips
> Pull trigger while not on safe
> WHY SHOOT
I spent my day today trying this with every single upgraded M4 and M4A1 in my company arms room, not a single one of them has any firing flaw like the article claims '10%' have.
Joshua Martinez
>est of the civilized world.
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Jordan Martinez
Did you even read the article?
Why did the army even change the m4’s? Isn’t burst better than full auto?
Colton Scott
>"nose to charging handle for consistency"
But that's what fucking cheek welds are for! It's n fucking bow and arrow, you're looking through an optic that already forces you to aim "consistently."
Ugh.
Connor Butler
Burst guns have more parts and are prone to failure more often then auto also you have ti hold down burst to get three shots unlike burst on guns like the MP5 and G36
Bentley Morgan
Fuck; they finally discovered one of my favorite features of the M4. Back when I was infantry, we'd tune our rifles to fire without even squeezing the trigger. You'd just point your carbine at your target, put the sights on it and hate the target with all your might -- BANG! -- fucking bullseye every time. Rush down an alley, turn the corner -- BANG! -- Haji's down with a hole between his eyes. You'd just be sitting -- BANG! -- M4 goes off where it's leaning against a tree, the recoil causes it to fall, clattering -- BANG! -- it goes off again, and the second bullet happens to kill the operator of a drone bomber directly overhead, which is destroyed by the first bullet. That carbine saved my life more than -- BANG! -- it just shot a gang banger about to pull a drive-by.
Julian Gutierrez
>10%
Not bad for a mass production $200 rifle.
Jose Sanders
Quads of truth
Oliver Russell
Maybe its just an m4 thing. I learned with the sks that being to close just results in a boop. Ever since, I've never got close enough to any gun in order to avoid an unwanted boop.
Ryder Miller
us M-16s were pretty shit too, when i shot mine on burst, it would consistently fire 4 or sometimes 5 rounds with one pull.
David Mitchell
WOW YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT DECADES OLD RIFLES WITH HUNDREDS OF THOUSAND OF ROUNDS THROUGH THEM DONT WORK PROPERLY SOMETIMES
WOW JEEZE user HOW CRAZY IS THAT SHIT HOLY MOLEY
Camden Smith
How about those USGI mags that have probably been around since Vietnam
Ayden Mitchell
>I fired 4 faggots for just that last year.
>but it totally doesn't happen routinely
>just 4 freak occurrences that I'm sure were all caught the first time they did it
Julian Mitchell
Fired for E4s for being lazy shits putting people in danger with their gross negligence out of 7 years of being an armorer with no issue
Connor Russell
>armed forces have wanted a new service rifle for years
>have wanted to ditch 5.56 for years
>electronically triggered caseless is the next logical step
>release report critical of current service rifle
>proposed replacement physically can't have the same issue
They are trying to drum up funding.
Jacob Barnes
>you have ti hold down burst to get three shots unlike burst on guns like the MP5 and G36
That's almost backwards -- HKs also stop firing as soon as you release the trigger, so you have to hold the trigger to deliver a full 3 rounds.
The difference is HKs reset the burst cam when you release the trigger, while M16A2 and derivatives only reset when 3 rounds are fired. So if you let off after 1 (or 2) rounds, the HK will still fire up-to-3 rounds on the next burst, while the M16A2 will only fire up-to-2 (or 1), then reset.
Anthony Cooper
I don't know why they are so goddamn cheap about the rifles anyway. Send them out every year to a contractor to be completely rebuilt or something. The stupid things should be in new or nearly new condition all the time.
Brandon Lewis
>in seven years
>in just one year
Make up your mind?
Nolan Johnson
Question about that when I was looking at how burst works: if you fire only one shot in burst and switch to semi, wouldn't the rifle fire the remaining two shots since the ratchet isn't reset?
Brody Nguyen
Because that costs money that could be thrown at LockMart/Northrop/Boeing for another trillion-dollar boondoggle.
Tyler Collins
Thanks for that lovely bit of OPSEC
Brody Rogers
user unless their some new fancy toy, the defense or military industry wants, Getting money out of pockets is quite hard. Unless its a new Bradley or some new super duper plane, The government aint giving out money until enough pockets are padded for the super duper project.
Wyatt Smith
Just wait till we have been using M855A1 for a few years and the guns are beat to shit.
Henry Perry
Are you trying to be retarded on purpose or does this user have to come in and help you understand his statements?
Henry Bell
Let’s just keep fuck ups hiding serious issues and secret so they never get resolved huh
Kayden Lewis
>Did you even read the article?
Did you? It's a malfunction that you have to intentionally perform.
Xavier Phillips
Put me in the screen cap
Logan Jackson
>How will burgers ever recover?
HAHAHAHA... US should just adopt a form of an AK and just be done with all these shit-tier barbie doll rifles that work like shit.
Jackson Sanchez
>The shortening process was rushed
Fucking retard, ar-15 carbines existed a long ass time before the M4.
H2 buffer and a smaller gas port fixed most issues.
Asher Thompson
AKs can’t even take in a deciliter of mud before becoming unsafe time bombs. The US needs to buy FNCs.
Noah Stewart
>AKs can’t even take in a deciliter of mud before becoming unsafe time bombs.
Stay mad nigger.
Mason Adams
I don't think blabbering about it on a malaysian snail herding forum is the best solution either.
Then again, you are secfo so...
Joshua Robinson
it was cleaned before firing...
Jaxon Rogers
M4's are not as reliable as m16's.
Ryder Sullivan
Joseph Reed
The new production FN M4A1's have an ambi switch, others are older M4's being upgraded to M4A1's, swapping out the trigger entirely.
The army should have just fucking bought a drop in trigger pack design. Apparently armorers are fucking up converting M4's into M4A1's
Bentley Reyes
>and?
Your whole fucking point was that the AK can handle foreign debris.
Foreign debris was removed before firing.
There isn't any gun that can work with shit in the action, AK isn't magical.
Jose Walker
>talk on 4chins, right person finds out and does some
>don’t say anything, someone gets hurt or dies because CATMS can’t fucking do their job
I bet your CATMS shit yourself, fuck you lazy asshole, go work for a change
Before tou say go to leadership, I already did twice. No one cares in this fucking base.
Brandon Wilson
I tried to find the link and it turns out the story doesn't exist. I am assuming this website is fakenews.
Hudson Collins
Thats an arsenal you moron
Thomas Morgan
>clean AK before throwing it in the mud
>it works
>clean M4 before throwing it in the mud
>it doesnt work
HMMMMmmmmMMMmmmmmMMMmmmmmmm......
Joseph Wright
Jordan Ortiz
The problem is also how many "Unit Armorer's" do you come across that are actual 91F? For the average grunt unit it's rare, because the person doing the job is a supply guy, or a brokedick, or a shitbag. To even get the shit to an actual 91F you have to go above Company level
Carson Thompson
Normal Gunsmith's got hurt by Obama's bullshit pay us regulations as well, I'm not doubting they look more towards volume than quality
Asher Walker
Those aren't airsoft bootleg handguards. They are Pre-M4 CAR series handguards more than likely
Xavier Walker
They literally say “airsoft only” and rattle on the slip ring as they were all crudely installed. My PEQ 15 didn’t even bevel straight and was canted when installed. I’ll see if I can pull some old photos from my Korean phone when I get home.
Kayden Hall
I'm a flyer so I could give a shit less about all of that my man
Luis Parker
>needs an air compressor to clean it before using
Fucking kek! Gopnik niggers and their shitty orc gun BTFO for all eternity!
Gabriel Ramirez
>107r
You're not going to make it
Jackson Hughes
Then fuck off, this thread is about people who handle guns and not faries.
Jonathan Gutierrez
>russian gopniggers so poor they can’t afford to use mud and turn a mud test into a dirt test
KEK, RUSSIANS CANT AFORD WATER
Grayson Martinez
You're just mad I get paid a whole lot more to deal with a whole lot less horse shit than you. Its ok, I don't blame you. I'd do the same.
Chase Hughes
>buttmad samefaggot
stay mad.
Caleb Edwards
>dude it never happens but yeah I've fired 4 people for it
Hunter Nguyen
>can’t afford water for mud test
Easton Powell
Then some dirtbag armorer at some depot swapped out KAC MWS handguards for old M4 handguards, ran short, and bought enough Airsoft handguards to cover the rest so he could sell the MWS on the open market.
Kinda why MWS are cheap as fuck on E-bay
Daniel Hall
I'm pretty sure MAC can afford more than you ever will be able to afford, Tyrone.
Hunter Ramirez
No I’m mad a persob irrelivant to the thread is telling me it’s wrong to raise the alarm on a serious issue and keeping quiet is better. How would tou feel if next time a maintainer fucks up on routine maintaince on your plane his buddies tell him to keep quiet so you end up like that C130 awhile back.
Christopher Johnson
Not with his muttlao babies and his new wife taking all his IWI shill money ;^)
Brandon Jones
it's probably all the exercise and dehydration that makes them stupid, how are they supposed to feed their body and their brain starting out as an out of shape fatty?
Levi Bell
>did you do semi annual maintaince for guns a thru f?
>uh yes
>lets see the paper work
>uh
> enjoy your article 92 fuck heads, next group do this task
Simple
Lucas Lee
I've never seen this comment before. Thank you very much! Hope you have as much fun sucking towelheads' dicks tonight as you did thinking people still fall for this!
Hudson Collins
>electronically triggered caseless is the next logical step
Why are autists so obsessed with caseless? It will always be a stupid idea.
John Adams
Proof that MAC has mullatos? You're thinking of Harrell or Yeager.
Adrian Mitchell
ooooohhhh nooooooo, I guess this means the army HAS to buy a new service rifle.
Because fuck taxpayers, who the fuck cares!!!!
Logan Sanchez
Funco is worst girl.
Henry Gutierrez
Have fun fucking dying when a maintainer fails to do his job but nobody felt like saying anything.