Why aren't heel releases more popular? I really like them after getting a makarov

They were popular at the turn of the 20th century because pistol magazines were expensive and uncommon when autoloading handguns were new to the scene. The idea was you release it and hold it in that hand and put it back in your pocket. As the years went on people preferred the ability to drop the mag with their shooting hand and ditch the mag. Its primarily on older handguns like the Mak or even earlier like the Colt 1903

Because they're a product of outdated doctrine.

They're there so commie peasants won't accidentally a frame and release the mag

burgertards are too insecure to accept that a heal mag release is a perfectly fine alternative to hurr durr murrika furk yeah style mag release

i don't know about soviet style. but i definitely like the euro kek style heal mag release on italian berettas.

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That might be the best brainlet meme I've ever seen

I like them too.

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>this objectively inferior design is a perfectly fine alternative!!!1!
Yurocucks really need to pull themselves together.

Team Tok

>objectively inferior design
i don/t think you objectively understand

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>Team Toke
dude weed lmao

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I'm not sure if this is bait, because he means Tokarev

>objectively slower
Yeah, nah, it’s objectively worse
>muh mag retention
Not having a few extra wholes in your chest cavity>retaining your mag. Also there’s no reason you can’t retain your mags while reloading a thumb release.

Any post declaring a Soviet pistol as the best pistol ever is bait.

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>it’s objectively worse
like i said. insecure burgertards

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dumb frogposter

That must be why the whole damn world moved away from heel releases around the same time right

>samefagging this hard
you must be very limber to be able to suck your own dick like that

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Everything else is flat out worse.

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I don't like them so much because I can't do speedy speed boi reloads with them. And I edc a mak.
Side note, heel mag release guys, do you grab your spare mag before you drop the empty one, or drop the empty one, then grab the spare?

Hurr durr, old antiquated designs are cool, guize!

if it ain't broke don't fix it
nothing objectively wrong with the Italian heal mag release

> - t. insecure burger

Not even close.

>resorting to accusing people of "samefagging hard" while only quoting two posts and then postin a 9gag image
Wow, you must be upset if you want to piss people off that much. That's just impressive dude.

>why are you using those fancy new “telephones” guise?
>telegraphs are just as good
>if it ain’t broke don’t fix it right?

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>insecure burgers

I don't hate them. In fact, I think they do make a lot of sense for military and police handguns. You're far more likely to accidentally drop the magazine when you need the gun than you are going to have reload.

Let's be fair, you almost never will have to reload your pistol in a combat situation, and if you do you are already royally fucked.
The world didn't move away from heel releases at the same time. They both coexisted for many decades. Let's also not ignore the fact that American gun owners hate change. That's why they also did not like the paddle release.

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The only real issue I have with heel releases is that many times the spring is made way too stiff. Especially on some smaller handguns making it really hard to remove the magazine.

>That's why they also did not like the paddle release.

Drops free with a button > Paddle

Options nigga. If I want to retain the mag I use two hands. If I need to reload ASAP, just drop and forget. No reason not to have a button release.

>insecure eruopoor

>Let's be fair, you almost never will have to reload your pistol in a combat situation, and if you do you are already royally fucked
Actually it depends. I’ll give you on an actual military patrol pistols are kind of a meme to the point where in a unit that actually has one for every man and trains with them, none of us ever carry them on target. That being said we do carry them on base- while deployed- and we do train to use them in combat.

Also for many police forces it’s their primary weapon and it’s not unheard of for them to preform a combat reload. In those situations a thumb release will always be preferred.

>You're far more likely to accidentally drop the magazine when you need the gun than you are going to have reload.
Have worked with pistols for years now and have literally never seen this happen. You’d have to try and make a mistake that stupid.

because it basically requires two hands to release

Which is why the P08, 1935A and GP35 all had side button releases?
Idiot.

>Also for many police forces it’s their primary weapon and it’s not unheard of for them to preform a combat reload. In those situations a thumb release will always be preferred.
My point still stands. You're in a very bad situation if you ever need to reload.

>Have worked with pistols for years now and have literally never seen this happen. You’d have to try and make a mistake that stupid.
You didn't fully read what I said.
>You're far more likely to accidentally drop the magazine when you need the gun than you are going to have reload.
>than you are going to have reload.
Dropping magazines are very common, especially under stress. More common than you think.

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see
Shitty holster can mean a disconnected magazine.

Someone should really make a double stack P210 variant.

>Someone should really make a double stack P210
And ruin it? They make double stack 1911s already, and those haven't really caught on despite Para Ordnance being around since the 80's. There's a reason people still like single stack guns well into the Glock age, and it's because they're comfy in the hand.

the only acceptable heel mag release is the pinching method found on HK P7s.

paddle and button releases are superior in every other way, with the exception of the category of "forces the user to realize that a magazine change is a big deal, and replacement mags are too expensive for whatever shit country involved, and thus magazines cannot be discarded when depleted"

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>Someone should really make a double stack P210 variant.

What is the X-Six?

>My point still stands. You're in a very bad situation if you ever need to reload
Than why make it worse with a heel release? If you’re in a bad spot you need every advantage you can get.

>Dropping magazines are very common, especially under stress. More common than you think.
Again, I’ve never seen it happen. Also between modern shooting techniques and the way most modern pistols are set up your thumb should never get near the button release until you’re making a conscious decision to reload. I could see this happening with somebody who’s never handled a pistol before- or maybe if your holster design is terrible- but even an ounce of training wil prevent this.

Better toss out the whole design instead of buying a non shitty holster than.

Well if 1911s didn't have absurd xbox hueg grip panels...

>magazine change is a big deal, and replacement mags are too expensive
This is the actual reason for a heel release, not the "you might accidentally eject the mag" some people seem to think. If you are pulling action movie tactical reloads where you flick the magazine away and slap in another one in two seconds flat, then button release is better. If you're actually putting the empty mag in your pocket, then the heel release is at least as good.

You can get any kind of grip panels you like, they're hella easy to replace.

k

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Never seen one without rails, did you get that done?

>doesn't know how to save image without screencapping
the power of ameriburger brainlets

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>They both coexisted for many decades.
In legacy designs. Then they all just dropped with the updates and new models as doctrine moved away from worrying about losing a mag vs losing life

So you're resorting to deflection huh

Except no one ditches mags. Police practice shooting drills where they keep their spent ones, when I was .mil we kept our spent mags. Recreational shooters keep their spent mags.... who throws them down and says fuck it?

most older Sigs didn't have rails. you just gotta find the German ones.

people who are performance emergency reloads and want to stay alive

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Anybody who actually trains to shoot in a combat situation? .mil too, don’t know what kind of pog unit you’re with but we train to drop mags and go back for them later, unless you’re in cover and have time.

Need two hands etc etc.
I have a 92S and really like the heel release though. I have tiny bitch hands so have to shift my grip use a standard mag release anyway.

>HK P7
I heard that the bavarian police sometimes had trouble with getting their mags stolen out of their guns while in large crowds of people, since it could be taken out while holstered.

Also early versions got the nickname "Bayernfalle" (Bavarian trap), since the seatbelt locks in the bavarian police cars were in such a position that they often released the drivers magazine and let it fall out.

>active firefight
>magazine retention
user.... what the fuck?...

Mag retention is important in situations where having that magazine later might end up saving your life, whether that means you're a French officer at the Somme or a civilian shooter in a SHTF fantasy running from zombies or Russian paratroopers in the woods. I do think a lot of the "it's your mag or your life" thinking is a little overblown, after all, if you're reloading and not in cover then things have already gone south for you whether or not you stick that magazine in your pocket, and I think a lot of people vastly overestimate how quick their reload would be in that situation anyway. But the thing about the button release is it allows you to choose. You can drop your empty magazine into your hand perfectly well with a button release, but with a heel release you are never able to drop the magazine with one hand. That's why everyone switched to the button- it doesn't provide much that much in the way of advantages compared to the heel release, but it has no disadvantages.

I will say that if you were in a position to preemptively reload by taking out the magazine while the gun was still loaded and putting a new one in while also retaining the old one, that would probably be the one situation in which a heel release is a little better, since you can get a new magazine with your left hand while still aiming and release the mag without changing your grip on the gun. But that's pretty specific, and not something people often do with a handgun outside of video games.

That's what I mean though. You still police mags when possible. Of course in combat you don't practice straight mag retention, but they definately had us policing our spares when I was doing OEF 09-10.

lol just put your mag on a lanyard

keep showing pictures like that and i'll paddle until release if you know what I am saying.

Where it shines is in reliability. It practically cannot fail, and takes very few parts. This was especially important to the Makarov since it was practically an exercise in Utilitarianism. However, there's no denying that this particular mag release is slower to reload. Today you don't need to build your pistols for nuclear war, and manufacturing capabilities are advanced enough to make more complex designs nearly as durable and reliable. Although heel mags are viable, they've become a dated design. Nothing wrong with that, enjoy guns

>mag release near the trigger is comfier
It objectively is not, it interferes with the grip, especially on smaller handguns.

Heel release is superior in every way.

Toks are simpler 1911 with better ammo moron.

Wrong, paddle release is the superior release

I love Lugers but you don't see me jerk off to a failed art student with a meth addiction.

Never interfered with my grips.

>better
Extremely debatable.

>simpler
Yes, so simple it's actually not safe to carry with a loaded chamber.

I think for this reason, heel releases are a good feature on some .22LR target pistols, and because of expensive magazines and large grips, Magnum automatics.

>if it ain't broke don't fix it
Inferior is broken.

>1911 with better ammo
I gotchu.

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>and those haven't really caught on despite Para Ordnance being around since the 80's. T
Lmao is this bait or are you retarded? STI's pattern dominates unlimited pistol competitions with like 9 companies making 80% 2011 frames of their own for their builds too.

>competition shooting is all shooting
The vast majority of 1911s are still single stack.

noguns or retard?

rails look better on P226's
without it,it looks like some nigger tier throwaway murder gun

Because they're fucking horrible and annoying.

Because tacticoolies like releasing their mag during a gunfight when they're shitting their pants and accidentally ham hand it.

>more inferior

What kind of weird hands do you have lmao. You shouldn't be thumbing the mag release while shooting, dipshit.

I dunno about you but I've accidentally dropped the mag out of my M&P Shield while doing a standard thump-forward grip. It's a big button on a tiny gun and it takes very little pressure to actuate. I could see this happening often with size-mismatched handguns.

(Bought the Shield as my first pistol and regret it, but no point in selling it when I'll only get like 200 back, just gonna give it to my gf or whatever)

>some nigger tier throwaway murder gun
People usually call those "Glocks" for brevity, user.

It is objectively false in every sense of the word, there is not a single advantage when it come to heel releases.

That isn't to say it's HORRIBLE or completely garbage, but just that there is not a single reason to put one into a modern design aside from aesthetics if even.

Heel releases are;
>Significantly slower
>Require two hands to activate
>Prevent drop-free functionality at least with the Mak style
>Are physically less ergonomic

Etc.

There's just no point in using one over the thumb placement. Isn't harder to manufacture, isn't more complex, does not require additional resources, it's just simply in a better location.

And this comes from a person who's sole semi-auto pistol is a Mak. It's great sure and I like it a lot but to claim Heel releases are as good as thumb releases is just stupid at best or straight up denial at worst

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>Why aren't heel releases more popular?

Because they are slow and un-ergonomic, OP.

What dont you like about the shield? I like my shield in 45.

At first I thought they were super novel when I got my polish makarov, but the heel release started to drive me crazy the longer I used it. Couldn't stand it eventually.

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Really? I don't get it.

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jgsales.com got a new fresh batch of Chrome Makarovs! freaking sweet looking....

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>jgsales.com
Opps they are sold out!

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intelligent frog poster

what is USPSA/IPSC?
I've done thousands of reloads over the last 15 years, not once did I retain the mag.