Germany's allies in WWII - Italy, Romania and Bulgaria, contributed large numbers of troops to the Eastern Front. How effective were they? Were they more of a liability? What was their experience?
Axis allies on the Eastern Front
Jacob Gonzalez
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Cameron Morris
Italian soldiers were okay but their equipment wasn't the best. Romanians were more then happy to fuck Russia up, until they realised they aren't fighting to get Bessarabia back. Bulgaria idk,never heard nor read anything about them.
Blake Foster
Who cares? Subhuman slave warriors. Threw their lives away in defense of the glorious Third Reich.
Nathaniel Myers
The italian soldier went to Russia hating the Soviets and with hope in the Germans, got back hating the Germans and realizing the Soviets were poor fucks as they were.
Those who managed to crawl back, of course.
Asher Sanchez
Pretty much this. Krauts made a bunch of promises they either couldn't or wouldn't keep.
Lucas Gomez
Liam Hernandez
?
Last time I checked German troops bailed the Italians out in France, North Africa and Greece first
Caleb Young
I know that Manstein said he believed the Romanians were brave troops, but their poorer education than German troops limited their ability to think for themselves in the field. They were overall the most numerous German ally. Poorly equipped though.
Bulgaria didn't send any troops to fight Russia. Pretty commonly thought the Germans poisoned Tsar Boris though, for not being willing to help out basically.
Hungarians were relatively small in number, not well trained or motivated, and had poor equipment.
Italians were in decent number for just over a year, but it's widely known the Italians had bad or outdated equipment, and their officer corps was quite lacking in skill.
The best foreign troops in Russia outside of the Germans and Finns were probably the Spanish Blue Division, which were of course a nominal part of the German army itself.
Aaron Brown
Bump
Jason Roberts
Doesn't anyone wanna talk about minor powers of the Eastern Front? Obscure shit like this gives me a stiffy
Julian Collins
Xavier Powell
Go home, shlomo. They were brave, proud men and every real national socialist knows this.
Adam Jones
Probably because there was very little cooperation between the axis powers and Germany, thus very little information about it exists and if it does, it's overwhelmed by the sheer scale of the Ostfront.
Caleb Reyes
Romania had the largest number of troops and operated in the southern part of the front. The equipment was largely outdated and the training was mediocre at best, they had almost no modern tanks and anti tank guns. Mountain tropp were the best and showed this in Crimea and the Caucasus, managing to go southern than any axis forces on the front. Most soldiers came from a rural background and a lot had no education, while officers were very stuck-up. Germans were shocked to see that an officer's dog ate better than a romanian soldier. the romanian air force did well considering its small size and lack of modern equipment, while the navy mostly mined the black sea. When barbarossa started the romanian army was large, almost unsustainable. After taking back Bessarabia and the shit-show that was the siege of Odessa the army was partially demobilized but still kept a large presence of the eastern front. By 1942 a lot of romanian saw no reason to continue the war against the soviets and wanted to prepare against Hungary to take back northern Transylvania.
Hungary on the other hand enterd the war after one of its villages was bombed, presumably by the soviets. They decided the instead of sending a large inefficient force they should use only their best trained and equipped units. They didn't achieve anything spectacular until being wiped out at Stalingrad. Hungarians were mostly preparing from a war against Romania to take the rest of Transylvania. When Germans took control of the country the Hungarian army started sending more soldiers against the soviets leading to horrendous casualties. Hungary had the (limited) ability to manufacture tanks (mostly light ones) but the Hungarian army suffered from a shortage of rifles.
Hunter Morgan
>Hungary on the other hand enterd the war after one of its villages was bombed, presumably by the soviets.
How ...convenient.
Leo Scott
Angel Bell
>Romania and Bulgaria
Romania and Bulgaria were not as tough as finns and germans. They were pretty easy to capture, I've read a story about a platoon of recons capruring, like, a company of romanians.
During occupation of Odessa the town was divided in two sectors: german sector with Abwehr observing the security and romanian sector observed by Siguranta. They used to compete with each other, but they haven't managed to suppress the soviet underground groups.
Tyler Lee
Heard some butthurt leftoid whinig about the Germans gassing the insurgents hidden in the sewers.
Hope it's true.
Joseph Baker
Romanians also executed thousands of civilians in retaliation after the bombing of their HQ building, which killed a hundred or so officers and personnel. It's considered a warcrime now, because most of them were, you know... juice
Michael Cox
not all partisans were leftists man. My nonno was an Italian partisan after the Italian army fell. He fought (Primarily in Milan) to keep both the allies and germany out of Italy. He liked to blow up train tracks. Even though the army was gone he continued to fight for his people. A lot of people seem to think that being natsoc/fascist means supporting the Germans. Sure, if you're German and from Germany. Otherwise nah, its your people my dude.
David Cook
Romania was the second largest Axis force on the Eastern Front but their main problems were the lack of equipment, training and cohesion.
In order to make up for their lack of modern tanks capable of engaging late and mid war soviet armor they came up with some interesting improvisations.
Basically they converted a number of soviet tanks captured at the start of Barbarossa into tank destroyers.
Pic related, a TACAM R2 tank destroyer.
Zachary Lewis
Soviet propaganda says the bomb was left there by the soviet nkvd before evacuation and thus the civilians were innocent.
This is horse shit. How the fuck did they know where the Romanians are gonna set up their HQ?
And am i supposed to believe the Romanians set up HQ in a house without conducting a thorough search first?
Lmao @ Russian propaganda.
Ethan Martinez
Bulgarians never had troops on the Eastern front, as for the soviet "stories", let's not go into that, not even with a pinch of salt.
Romanians mainly lacked decent heavy equipment like tanks and AT guns, and in the later phases of the war (1942) probably morale too, since the common soldier really didn't understand what the fuck they were fighting in the Caucasus or on the Don bend for, thousands of kilometers into forein land.
And like someone here already stated, the Romanian officer corps was aristocratic in upbringing, and there was a major rift between the troop and the officer corp.
As for the most famous example of Romanian military catastrophe, the breaching of the Stalingrad flanks, they actually fought quite admirable, for the lack of antitank guns that plagued them.
In general, it's safe to say that the Germans mainly considered their allies (Romanians, Italians, Hungarians) little more than cannon fodder, maybe except for the finns who didn't let themselves be pushed around like that by their co-beligerent
Juan Young
Indeed
Nolan Carter
Blue Division was awesome
Wyatt Myers
The stories about soviets capturing the Romanians might refer to the 2August 1944 events.
A coup happened in Romania, the pro-german Antonescu got arrested by the king and the new government signed an armistice with the allies.
The Romanians were ordered not to shoot at the Soviets anymore but the Soviet scumbags ignored the armistice at first and continued taking Romanian prisoners for days.
Julian Anderson
23* of August sorry
Logan Thompson
Jason Foster
The Blue Division was equipped with German Weapons, being as they were a volunteer unit
>Italians were in decent number for just over a year, but it's widely known the Italians had bad or outdated equipment, and their officer corps was quite lacking in skill.
The Carcano's, while outdated are flat out better rifles than the Mosin's, and the Beretta SMG's were spectacular, but what really hampered Italy tactically was lack of good machineguns, primarily then a lack of artillery, anti tank guns, an infantry Anti Tank weapon, better rounds for the light mortar,
Tyler Flores
wrong side of history boys
Thomas Murphy
The Finn's also proved themselves more effective than German soldiers in their theater, largely due to knowing the land, field craft and the defenses the Soviets had occupied were old Finnish ones from the Winter War
John Taylor
>This is horse shit. How the fuck did they know where the Romanians are gonna set up their HQ?
They used to lay the bombs with radio fuses all over the significant objects before they leave. One of the most famous stories was with mining of Vyborg when finns used to suppress the signal by playing Sakkijarven Polkka on all the frequencies.
>And am i supposed to believe the Romanians set up HQ in a house without conducting a thorough search first?
There were both real bombs and decoys.
It was not the sewers. It was the quarry of Adzhimushkai, Crimea.
>Hope it's true.
Of course. But why are you pretending to be happy about it?
Logan Sanchez
>There were both real bombs and decoys.
That doesnt mean anything.
Or ar you that retarded to think that the Romanians stopped looking for bombs in their future HQ building just because they got tired of finding decoys?
Get your propaganda and shove it up your vatnik ass.
John Baker
>But why are you pretending to be happy about it?
Because dead communist rats is always a good thing that's why.
Chase Torres
>people fighting for their rights and freedom
>communist rats
Yeah, the world is so simple and fine, stay asleep.
Cameron Jackson
>t-they were righteous freedom fighters not just a bunch of nkvd commanded terrorists
Riiiight the Ukrainians had every reason to spontaneously rise in defense of a government that starved 4 millions of them to death...
Also
>Soviet Union
>rights
>freedoms
Lmfao please cease these jests you communist retard
Julian Cox
>the famine started because of gommunist policies I swear!
Keep telling yourself that bullshit. The only reason this myth lives is because it's still translated over media.
>Lmfao please cease these jests you communist retard
No, but I'll be glad to invite you to Moscow, maybe we'll catch a beer or two and I'll be able to enlighten you.
No, just kidding, fuck you.
James Ortiz
you do realise ukranians were a minority in odessa?
Nolan Jones
>government controls all means of production including all land
>government also confiscates all the grain production
>certainly not the government's fault when famine strikes
Was constantly embarrassing yourself part of your plan?
>I'll be glad to invite you to Moscow
Ah, just as i thought, another butthurt vatnik.
Levi Morris
>Odessa
>Ukrainians
I sure love American education.
Hudson Diaz
The 3 ethnic groups: jews, russians and ukrainians where almost evenly split at that time
Which only strengthens my argument that those were not Ukrainians fighting for their freedom, but rather a bunch of jewish and vatnik communists fighting to keep their privileges.
Ian Robinson
What did the retard mean by this?
Juan White
>government controls all means of production including all land
No, there are cooperatives and western concessions.
>government also confiscates all the grain production
You can't confiscate what's yours. It's a collective farm owned by government. If you're calling it "confiscating" you can blame every other landlord for taking over the fruits of someone else's work.
>ertainly not the government's fault when famine strikes
Just study the russian environment and the history of famines, you dipshit. Because local famines were happening almost every year before bolsheviks. And only after the collectivisation they have faded away.
BTW, who is responsible for famines in Poland/Western Ukraine in the same time? On the Balkans? Also ebil borsheviks?
Odessa is a multinational city, with lots of russians, moldavians, jews, gypsies, turks, you name them.
Especially jews.
Jonathan Nelson
Another ruined thread.
I think it's time for a Russian ban.
Benjamin Hall
>everything I don't like is russian propaganda
>they dare to try to ruin my perfect picture of the world
Kayden Kelly
According to the 1926 census, the population of Odessa was comprised of:
39,2% Russians
(((36,9%))), making it one of the most God-
chosen cities on the planet at that time.
17,7% Ukrainians
and about 3% Poles.
Odessa was a historic Imperial port, established under Catherine the Great by Russian chattel-slaving prisoners and ((()))s exiled beyond the Pale of Settlement. It has very little to do with historic Ukrainian population.
You're like a guy who acts surprised upon learning that Montreal is full of Frenchmen.
Kayden Gomez
>- So what about them Axis allies on Eastern Front? Them Romanians, Italians, whatnot?
>- Boy I sure hope they gassed and raped a lot of commie slavshit subhumans, they deserve it for making up all the bullshit about innocent Axis soldiers gassing and raping their people during WWII. Man I SURE hate them fucking Ruskies!
>- Leave, faggot.
>- FUICKING VATNIKS ARE RUINING MUH THREADS REEEEEEEEEE
What did Jow Forums mean by this?
Jayden Mitchell
>>government controls all means of production including all land
>No, there are cooperatives and western concessions.
>>government also confiscates all the grain production
>You can't confiscate what's yours. It's a collective farm owned by government.
Hahahah holy shit he can't stop embarrassing himself.
>If you're calling it "confiscating" you can blame every other landlord for taking over the fruits of someone else's work.
Nice deflectionism.
So the government owned all the land and gathered all the crops and then they refused to let the people have any.
But somehow this isnt the government's fault.
You might be braindamaged.
>Just study the russian environment and the history of famines, you dipshit. Because local famines were happening almost every year before bolsheviks. And only after the collectivisation they have faded away.
Point is, the communist government, who promised to have the workers interests at heart, confiscated all the land and promised to end famines.
Turns out the famines kept happening for another 2 decades.
Not only that but they deliberately confiscated and withheld all the grain. This is a historical fact. So who else besides the communist government is to blame you fucking mong?
>BTW, who is responsible for famines in Poland/Western Ukraine in the same time? On the Balkans? Also ebil borsheviks?
First of all let's see these famines you're talking about. Let's see some dates and statistics.
>Odessa is a multinational city, with lots of russians, moldavians, jews, gypsies, turks, you name them.
So? The retard implied that Ukrainians dont live in Odessa or that Odessa doesnt belong to Ukraine.
Was he wrong or right?
According to the 1939 census, the population of Odessa was comprised of:
1939[34]
Jews: 200,961 people (33.26%)
Russians: 186,610 people (30.88%)
Ukrainians: 178,878 people (29.60%)
Poles: 8,829 people (1.46%)
Kevin Smith
>whining about commies getting gassed.
Leave faggot.
Brayden Taylor
Justin Moore
Decent when led by competent officers, kinda useless otherwise. As I remember, the Germans ended up having to replace most of the Hungarian officers.
Christopher Ramirez
>So? The retard implied that Ukrainians dont live in Odessa or that Odessa doesnt belong to Ukraine.
No.
Some user stated that people of Odessa are commie subhumans that deserved to be gassed. Another user disagreed, stating that people of Odessa struggled the invaders for their lives and even the measly amount of freedom they enjoyed under Soviets, since Axis was plainly and simply exterminating them. The first user then kinda fucked up with this:
>Riiiight the Ukrainians had every reason to spontaneously rise in defense of a government that starved 4 millions of them to death..
Which implies that population of Odessa (and it's local resistance) comprised mostly of Ukrainians.
Which is factually wrong.
I'm not Russian and not a commie. I DO whine however about every single thread that concerns any military conflict that involved any socialist regime ever immediately gets swarmed by pathetic little cucks who are seemingly still eternally butthurt about their gran-grans being raped by Soviets, so they turn it into a comfy "muh dead commies" wank thread.
Every fucking time, I swear.
Eli Jackson
>So the government owned all the land and gathered all the crops and then they refused to let the people have any.
People should buy their food at the store. It's no their crop.
Just as on every usual farm, when you gather corn, you don't keep it, you hand it over to landlord who pays you money for it.
>But somehow this isnt the government's fault
Oh yeah, because government can manage weather and climat changes.
>Turns out the famines kept happening for another 2 decades.
So, you're telling me that a large, barely-industrialised country can change into troubleless land in a matter of days? Did your parents dropped you on a concrete floor in the childhood?
>Turns out the famines kept happening for another 2 decades.
It was the only famine in two decades. It hasn't affected the population growth and in fact it's quite an improvement in comparison to Russian Empire.
Leo James
>. I DO whine however about every single thread that concerns any military conflict that involved any socialist regime ever immediately gets swarmed by pathetic little cucks who are seemingly still eternally butthurt about their gran-grans being raped by Soviets, so they turn it into a comfy "muh dead commies" wank thread.
So much this.
Aiden Clark
Matthew Bennett
Which the Italian troops and/or commanders in those theatres may have been happy about, but those who went to Russia probably cared more about what happened in Russia.
Juan Anderson
They perpetrated genocide against innocent people. War crimes everywhere.
Fuck the Axis.
Adrian Fisher
The Carcanos are better than the Mosins.
In theory. Thanks to the wonders of "italian production in wartime" the problem for Carcanos was ammunition, quality control was abysmal. Also LMG. Also mortars. Also AT. Also tanks. One of my dreams is that someone will find deep in some Soviet archive the evaluation of the captured italian tankettes and self-propelled guns. I would love to see the Soviet reaction.
Yes and no. it's no mistery that most Germans hated the italian troops and considered them unfit for military use. The italians, on the other hand, pretty much admired German equipment and hated the Germans for everything else.
It was truly an alliance born to fail. Very few italians and very few Germans were happy to fight alongside one another, and the italians went back to the usual spiel to justify their anti-German feelings (we are inferior in technology BUT the Germans are soulless killbots).
Stereotypes!
Blake Hall
Unlike the war crimes committed all over the world by Allied forces? Sure the Axis were good at it and on a large scale, but spend a day looking into what the other side did and got away with and we can discuss who deserved being fucked. And who didn't.
Christopher Foster
The Axis deserved it. 13 million genocided in Europe, 10 million genocided in Asia.
Pretty clear-cut.