Other than the cost of ammo, what other advantages do pistol caliber carbines have over regular carbines?

Lower recoil and less overpenetration, which both make them a better home defense option than a 5.56mm.

>overpenetration
>5.56

You just outed yourself as being a know nothing retard. Grats.

>Lower recoil

5.56 recoil is already anemic

>less overpenetration

basically a myth

Retard alert

Lower recoil, less noise. Also, they are very fun to shoot.

Most pistol caliber carbines are blowback, making them higher weight and recoil

Well, they are selling off the shelves in CA, I imagine having it near 50 state legal helps...

Really we need a few aftermarket stocks, should be doable.

Honestly I'm be satisfied with a hogue or magpul stock similar to the X-22 hunter. But I'm sure tapco or somebody else will make a pistol grip stock.

You can safely shoot steel at shorter ranges.

PCC class for uspsa and steel challenge.

Could a 45 AR safely run 45 super?

With really good defensive ammo, it's ideal for home defense.

According to wikipedia 5.56x45 NATO weighs 12.3g per round and 9mm weighs about 7.5 to 8 grams.

5.56 literally weighs about 50% more per round than 9mm.

You would probably need a different recoil spring. The super is going to have so much more recoil it will bottom out the spring and beat up the gun over time.

+P 9mm out of a long barrel is totally different than regular 9mm out of a 3 inch pistol barrel. People think 9mm is weak because they think of it being shot at standard pressure out of a 3 inch barrel.

When you are shooting it out of a 8" or longer barrel at +P pressure you are getting between 500 and 600 ft-lbf of muzzle energy compared to about 250 ft-lbf using standard pressure out of a 3" barrel.

It's basically twice as powerful using +P out of a carbine.

Attached: 9mmluger.png (1017x526, 118K)

It's roughly the same as .357 from a 6 inch revolver

What's wrong with what he said? How doesn't a 5.56 penetrate through the walls in a house more than a pistol caliber?

I got one so I'd have a cheap semi auto rifle that could be suppressed that wasn't a 22. In reality, it's less capable than my 8" dan Wesson model 15, and weighs twice as much.

Lighter, simpler action generally, felt recoil is very light (depending on cartridge) many have magazine interchangeability with common Handguns (generally Glock) making magazines easier to find. Also if you run a sidearm with the same magazine as your carbine, only having to carry one mag type.

Its fudd tacular

You can put 10 round magazines in them instead of 5.

Make it in 357 to take advantage of the barrell.

Dude .40 can get that energy from a pistol. Don't get me wrong, it gives 9 more punch, and I own several 9mm carbines... but it is still a pistol round. Carry quality ammunition and it'll do it's job

>rimmed cartridge

50 state legal, I'm sure there will be aftermarket stocks soon enough

>lower recoil
>lower ammo weight and smaller magazines (meaning you can carry more)
>better ballistics than a pistol
>magazine compatibility with your ccw
>lighter weight (generally speaking)

Canucks can get larger magazines for them than for dedicated rifles
>what is the coonan?
>what are automags?
>what is the Deagle brand Deagle?

A 9mm bullet already weighs around 8 grams.
9mm and 5.56 nato are pretty much the same weight.

www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/04/09/how-much-does-your-ammunition-weigh/amp/

Jammy pieces of shit

PCC's only have one real purpose, which is to arm wives and daughters.

And you can keep playing that game forever. 10mm gets more energy than .40 with the same magazine capacity.

9mm is cheaper and ammo availability is far better. And out of a carbine it is totally sufficient in muzzle energy. If you want a .40 then buy a .40.

>pretty much the same
>50% difference

Are you a fucking moron?
Do you think the cartridge itself is weightless?

If it's a *ahem* pistol with a sliding *ahem* brace? Ease of transport

>Cartridge
brass*

The keltec 30 round 22 mag laughs at you.

A mag fed .357 or .44 mag in semiauto? Do want.

You might be hitting pressures at that point that you want something other than blowback.

>lightweight projectile that tumbles apon contacting materials penetrates less than projectiles that way 2.5 times as much
wow what a shock

Honestly, pistol carbines/sub machine guns have been dying out until recently. The M4 carbine basically killed the MP5 in US Military circles, and the reasons are obvious.

That being said, the PCC market has exploded, and as an owner or a shockwave equipped AR style 9mm, and a Ruger PCC, there is no denying that there is just something fun about them.

I tried a 10.5 inch 5.56 AR once, and frankly, I thought it kinda sucked to shoot. The ATI (pic related) is extremely fun.

Both guns in pic have the same barrel length.

Attached: 9mm fun.jpg (1512x2016, 529K)

Ugh but the tiny magazine in the huge magwell is so fucking ugly. It's obviously so much more practical, but I'd rather have an MP5 out of aesthetic reasons.

Well, that is an ETS 30 round magazine, but when I just use Glock pistol mags, it's a bit weird looking. That, and it's funny to have a gun that essentially has the same performance as a pistol (Glock 35 with 9mm conversion barrel in pic), but with 3x the mass.

low recoil, little blast, light ammo, can shoot pistol steel targets without cratering or penetrating them.

You can get lowers that have small magwells and are sized to fit specific magazines.

I got a cz scorpion a few months ago and love it. Ammo is dirt cheap and with the cz trigger upgrade its really easy to rapid fire. The trigger upgrade cuts both the trigger pull length and pull weight in half. It goes from about 8lbs to 4lbs and half the length of pull.

I can do quick double taps and put both rounds within about 1 inch of each other at 15 yards. Two +p hollow points in somebody's chest will certainly ruin their day.

This.

>What is sectional density
>What is ballistic coefficient

Fuddlett

I own an AR and a Scorpion. The Scorpion is what is beside my bed folded up in my night stand.
It's much shorter and more maneuverable indoors, especially going through doorways.
It folds up and stores in a smaller space than my AR
The blast and muzzle flash arent nearly as intense as the AR so it will be much less disorienting to shoot in the dark without hearing protection in a self defense situation.
9mm won't overpenetrate as much as 5.56.

In a SHTF bug out situation I'll use my AR. In a home invasion situation at 3 AM I'm grabbing the scorpion.

Round availability in a survival situation also having the same round as your handgun so you don’t have to carry two different types of ammo in a survival situation.

Attached: CAB409B7-4E10-497D-AA1F-12AB5973259A.jpg (602x449, 110K)

>weight
The one in the OP weighs almost 10lbs
>recoil
Straight blowback 9mm has higher perceived recoil than DI 5.56 or piston 5.45.

Name a SINGLE pistol mag that's as cheap or as widely available as a STANAG.

Glock 9mm mag lol, fucking so easy to name

>$20 vs $9
FAIL

Scorpion 30rd mags can be found for $15. The couple $ difference in mags is quickly offset by the fact 9mm is much cheaper than 5.56.

I own both PCC and AR platforms, I'm not saying one is outright better than the other. I own 20X AR mags.

>name advantages of PCCs
>HURR THE MAGS ARE CHEAPER
>no they're not
>HURR BUT GLAWK
>lolno
>HURR ITS ONLY A COUPLE DOLLARS A MAG
Look at those goalposts go!

Im not the user who mentioned glock mags.

In regards to cartridge weight I just weighed the 3 types of 9mm I own.

115gr Speer ball - 11.9g
124gr Speer Gold Dot +P - 12.73g
147gr Federal HST +P - 13.81g

>grams
Worthless. Try it again in freedom units.

More pleasant to shoot. Easier to teach folks on. Play much nicer with shorter barrels, don't blast so much shockwave and noise that you'll have trouble keeping your senses, are cheap and have a variety of subsonic loadings. Oh and ammo always being available

Convert them yourself

>being so incredibly poor that you can NOT swallow an $11 price difference

PCC's are typically half what an AR costs. So you're actually saving money. That's really important when you're this poor.

>PCC's are typically half what an AR costs
OH LOOK HE'S FUCKING WRONG AGAIN

>>name advantages of PCCs
>THERE ARE NO ADVANTAGES AND THEY ARE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE
>no they are not
>YES THEY ABSOLUTELY ARE
>it has been demonstrated that they are not
>ONLY THE RICH CAN POSSIBLY AFFORD SUCH AN ITEM
>this is wrong
>EAT THE RICH, PCC'S FOR EVERYONE, VIVA LA REVOLUCION

this thread got very strange, very quickly.

But...they are.

That's why you're so angry that I said that. Because you know that I'm right. I can hear the tears seeping from your caps lock.

Citation needed.

2 seconds on gunbroker

there are thousands more results like this btw

Attached: Screen Shot 2018-06-04 at 2.50.44 PM.png (826x818, 272K)

>The one in the OP weighs almost 10lbs
6.8 lb isn't a lot.

The one in OP pic related is right around $500

It's a take down that uses essentially 10/22 trigger components and it is 50 state legal without threaded barrel iirc

This thing has so much potential for aftermarket... The bolt face can be easily changed along with the bolt weight. Then you obviously have the front end namely the barrel which can be swapped in seconds. The trigger components as mentioned are largely the same as the 10/22. There is already an aftermarket bolt handle and mag release and more can be made. The magwells are obviously interchangeable.

Whoever designed this gun deserves a beer

I don't know why bitter faggots can't just accept that some people like to own more than one gun platform. I think it is mostly poorfags who can only afford one gun by the skin of their teeth and feel they must defend their decision as if their entire reputation depends on it. On an anonymous traditional Siberian underwater basket weaving forum no less...

I own handguns, shotguns, a bolt rifle, AR-15, and a PCC. You don't have to choose just one unless you are a poorfag.

>I own handguns, shotguns, a bolt rifle, AR-15, and a PCC.

Well I guess that settles it. Some random faggot claims he owns some guns. I guess there's nothing left to discuss. Shut the thread down.

>poorfag finds it unbelievable somebody could own 7 guns
I don't even pretend to think my collection is impressive. The fact you think it is unbelievable without proof is just sad.

Did you not hear me, you slimy little faggot? There's nothing left to discuss. You said it all. Now shut the fuck up and shut this thread DOWN.

>being this concerned that people don't think you own $400 worth of firearms despite the fact that nobody called it into question or even pointed it out

Wow.

Sure a lot of angry poorfags in here. Did your moms refuse to cook you your chicken tendies and bring them down to the basement today?

You have a good point, ignore the bitter neets that you have just triggered though

Best for innadoors

>good enough power for short range
>little muzzle flash
>less noise and
>better suppression than 5.56

At least that's for practical reasons. Otherwise they're just fun to shoot cause it's even less recoil than the already low recoil of a 5.56. Plus it's cheaper.

Also, .45ACP FMJ is adequate for some hunting, 9mm less so but still better than .22LR

Why aren't there 9mm barreled uppers which have standard 5.56mm barrel extensions, and a gas block stuck on like 2 inches from the chamber, so that a standard DI AR-15 bcg can be used? The case head is practically the exact same size.

Is the 9mm case just way too short, and it'd fall off the extractor in the barrel extension?

Personally, I think this is a meme. Wouldn't it be better to have two different common calibers? That way you have more chances of acquiring ammo that works in your firearms? If you only have 9mm, and you manage to find someone someone wanting to barter 5.56/223, you won't be able to use it.

Really, the only way I'd do something like this, is if there existed a .357 semi auto carbine (Ruger used to make one) and I had an 8 shot .357 revolver with me.

Because .357 mag is one of the few calibers that actually approaches rifle speed when shot out of a long barrel. Not even 9mm +p+ can do that.

>Straight blowback 9mm has higher perceived recoil than DI 5.56 or piston 5.45.
This is why the patrician's choice of PCC is something like the MP5, Sig MPX, or that new Lone Wolf .45 PCC that uses a short stroke piston.

This user has it.

>lolpoorfags
Here's your (You)
I swear you pop up everywhere on here, make yourself a trip so I don't have to read your bullshit
>>t. student working through school

Not that user, but I can expect a PCC from lelkek to run reliably for hundreds of rounds. A $500 AR I can expect to run for about 150 rounds and then start jamming. I've tried the poverty AR's and frankly I don't fucking trust them. Go gucci AR or get something more reliable than the AR platform like the Bren or the SCAR.

>45ACP is better than 9mm for hunting
user I have some news for you, this is bad information.

Because my uneducated friend that is not how 9mm ARs work. 9mm AR merely borrow the upper receiver. Pretty much everything else is only for 9mm. The barrels are different. The bolt is modified because it now uses direct blowback and they have to change the bolt face to feed from different mag designs (more so in the case of glock mags).

The case head is different enough that it will be very unreliably to shoot. Also even at 2 inches there is not enough back pressure to run the bolt.

The current AR 9mm are just about all blowback with a hand full of delayed blowback. It is cheaper and more reliable.

That is what .357 sig was designed for. People wanted .357 ballistics in a semi-auto. .357 sig has very similar ballistics but in a cartridge designed to feed in a semi-auto. Unfortunately it has never gotten that popular so it has few guns chambered in it and remains too expensive.

The Sig MPX is basically what you are talking about. It is an AR inspired design but gas operated unlike most PCC which are blowback. As you can see from this pic the gas port is only like 2 inches from the chamber.

It's an interesting design but it ends up being too expensive and complicated compared to blowback designs. Nobody wants to pay those prices for a 9mm. You could have a sweet .300 blk SBR AR-15 for the same price.

Attached: mcx-rifle-sauer-sig-review-8.jpg (648x432, 27K)

Shit i just realizes that is a mcx... i searched for mpx on google.

Here this shows the mpx. The gas system is even closer to the chamber.

Attached: IMG_6516.png (1380x1349, 1.19M)

I wonder if the Butler Creek mini-30 folding stock can be made to fit it, like the 10/22 one fits the takedown if you cut the forestock off the BC?

A loaded M-4 mag weighs 1.1 pounds; you do the math

fuckin idiot spotted

have you ever even held a firearm in your life?

Does anybody actually use this thing with the original Security-9 mag well? Virtually all the owners I've seen for it swap to the Glock mag well immediately upon purchase.

I really don't see any except for delivering a larger diameter subsonic projectile with a suppressor, which is a pretty niche advantage. Comparing 9x19 to 5.56x45, the PCC is at equal or disadvantaged in pretty much everything. Recoil, ammunition volume and weight, precision, effective range, terminal ballistics, load variety, intermediate cartridges are just that good.