In a SHTF scenario, how hard would the production of ammo actually be, considering that the production of neither case...

This .357 is made by innovairtech. It's a multi-shot bolt action but it uses tiny individual air cylinders for each shot, sorta like regular firearm cartridges. Their .40 cal does 145 ft.-lbs.

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Air cartridges in a bandolier. They're about as big as .50 cal shells

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You can make serviceable primers with match heads. Smokeless powder would be the real bitch, but recoil operated and blowback firearms would probably not care too much about using black powder.

Theres always the classic, Caselman air machine gun in .40 cal, putting out 130 ft.-lbs, full auto! And that was with just 1000 psi. I'll build a better one, someday.

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this is a thread about ammo. why are you masturbating yourself with compressed air here of all places?

Just showing you sperglords that reloading your own ammo post SHTF will be nearly impossible and that there are significant alternatives to look into.

You CAN NOT operate most firearms on black powder. Maybe bolt actions, sure, but good luck getting semi-autos to reliably cycle. And all that fouling.... jeeze.

You also CAN NOT make safe and reliable smokeless powder that produces that right pressures. Nitrocellulose is easy to make, but not easy to granulate or moderate the burn rate using chemicals, unless you do a bunch of experiments. Got the tools to measure chamber pressure for your tests?

By the time ammo dries up in shtf, an old bow or crossbow would probably be more practical and reliable than air guns. Due to simplicity and ease of crafting

Do you shoot Crosman powershot penetrators? I've heard they are great.

No we would just go back to breechloading paper cartridges if society couldn't into bullet manufactoring.

>You're fucked of primers though.

You can literally just use a punch to flatten the cups back out and put in a 1:1 mix of ground match heads and red phosphorus from the strips.

that is c4 not gunpowder

>Nitrocellulose
>C-4

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not a chemist but aren't they fairly similar also don't you need charcoal or is that BP

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Smokeless doesn't use charcoal, black powder does.
Also, C4 is based off RDX, only vaguely similar to nitrocellulose.

Blackpowder is charcoal, sulfur, and saltpeter, you fucking halfwit. They're nowhere near the same.

Black charcoal piss and sulfur. He’s talking gun cotton.

Really cool. Tell me about how you made it, and show me its features.

it would be wild west guns,
maybe you'd see some non-gas operated automatics.
there's no reason blackpowder can't work in a blowback, right?

Long, LONG term shtf?

Possibly. If some dudes get together and collected a bunch of reloading equipment and create some Gun Runners type group where they crank out bullets filled with gunpowder made from stump remover, charcoal, and garden sulfur, and primers made from matches. That's only if the worst case scenario happens and we experience some TEOTWAWKI tier crisis for so long that all bullets run out and impromptu factories would be in great demand.

Most likely scenario: civilization comes back and ammo factories resume operation before all the ammo is even close to running dry.

75% Potassium nitrate 15% Charcoal 10% Sulfur
Making holy black is as simple as visiting the gardening isle. If you've got a fallback point you ought to have some gardening supplies there anyway. As for primers Keep in mind though if you've managed to run through your entire ammunition stash and all of your reloading smokeless supply, primers, and bullets then you've REALLY fucked something up.

Beyond the capability of an individual or family. It would take *some* level of civilization to produce, though probably not as much as many might think. Remember that Prvi Patrizan started out as an illegal underground ammo factory for Tito’s communist rebels. They didn’t have a lot by the way of resources, but they still managed to produce. So while you couldn’t make it happen in your garage, something on the level of Bartertown could probably do it.

What about when you run out of matches?

Buy more matches

Missed your last thread airgundude. How do you build these? Are there standardized pumps and valving for HPA? Got any links?
Oh and what were those mini HPA canisters called again?

The .72 is made by xp-airguns.com. The .30 cal I posted I made mostly from parts I found online. It's based off the Benjamin Discovery. I got the main tube for $20 on some site... Then got a breech from bnmcustom air guns. I got the .25 cal breech that fits Marauder barrels, so I could get a .30 cal Marauder barrel from Mountain air customs airguns. Got a high flow valve from mangumairpower.com, along with a hammer, high power spring, power adjuster, high strength valve screws, the grip frame. I got the air bottle adapter from jdsairman.com but it required modification since it's made for CO2 not HPA. You can read more about that here: gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=105712.0
I designed the stock and adapter for it myself, pretty simple.

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Cool project. Have you shot any objects with it to get an impression of its power?

HPA hand pumps are like $60 on eBay for cheap Chinese knock offs. They're hit or miss from what I read but I seem to have got lucky because mine works for now. A good one cost like $160. The tiny air cartridges I posted are called MAC cylinders I think and they are made by Innovairtech.

Who cares lol. If you don't have enough ammo RIGHT NOW to last 3 lifetimes of frequent shooting, you were never gonna make it anyway.

Also airguns belong on /toy/

tbf there is some combat history to airguns. Lewis and Clark used one anyway.

Those were never used in combat. They just used them in demonstrations for the Indians. They were novelties, nothing more.

The Girandoni air rifle (like Lewis and Clark used) was the standard service rifle of the Austrian army for 3 years. It could fire two 12 shot magazines on a charge of 850 psi hand pumped air. During a time when black powder rifles required reloading after every shot, this thing just needed to be cocked again.

>wasteland
>two survivors discover old hidden bunker
>"Oh my god, look at all those guns and gear."
>"I wonder where's the owner, no way he's dead, he was obviously prepared."
>old skeleton sitting in a chair at the back of the room
>"M-my god... It seems like... like he didn't had a stockpile of ammunition and he starved to death while trying to produce his own ammunition while we were all busy trying to find something to eat."

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Honestly just 3d print your cases, won't work with most semi autos but whatever.

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The cartridges can be re-used.

The primer caps can be re-shaped.

The priming powder can be re-made. It could either be Silver Oxalate, Potassium Chlorate and Red P, or Mercury Fulminate.

Mercury fulminate is not too hard to make once you have the Mercury, it can be found in most thermostat switches, each house you raid would have enough for like a dozen or more primers.

The black powder needs to be made with Potassium Nitrate, Sulfur, Charcoal. Potassium Nitrate can be made through Birkland eyde process, although this requires electricity, or it can be made my oxidizing natural Nitrogen products. Sulfur can be extracted from miticides using Xylene, or you can raid a train station as in my area the stuff is removed from natural gas and sits in the train yard for a couple weeks before being shipped to asia.

F O U L I N G

youtube.com/watch?v=dL0Y_ivmfRE
You can with a lighter bolt, I guess. Standard autos will jam all the time. Plus black powder gets the gun dirty real quick, though. So that's a downside.

BP user here 'dirty' is a massive understatement. that shit will rust parts you didn't even know your gun had and will do it in a day too. In a semi auto I'd go ahead and give whole thing a hot water bath ASAP after firing.

You're shit out of luck when it comes to #5:
Primers

Manually operated Shotgun
Because you can turn that into a modernized black powder musket.

Primers is the big issue but if you've thought ahead on this topic you can get a whole shit ton of shotgun shell primers and have them saved up for this. You can reuse old or spent shells.

You can cast Buckshot if you want but lead is alot harder to find than it used to be. In lieu of that you can take bolt cutters to boxes of Nails to clip them into 8-9mm long pieces and fire it like shrapnel
(while being an asshole and putting a Nail in the center of it so it might have a stabilized flight)

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>You can cast Buckshot if you want but lead is alot harder to find than it used to be. In lieu of that you can take bolt cutters to boxes of Nails to clip them into 8-9mm long pieces and fire it like shrapnel
>(while being an asshole and putting a Nail in the center of it so it might have a stabilized flight)
Have you ever tried shooting nails out of a shotgun? Also, could you not use the threaded end of an M16 bolt as a slug?

How would you start the black powder exactly? My first thought was to put a priming cap on the firing pin somehow but I don't know if thats practical at all

If SHTF is so far gone into post-apoc territory that you need to resort to making primers, the detritus of civlization will be a bounteous wealth beyond imagining. Nobody will be mining metals or manufacturing chemicals, you just have to stumble into a warehouse somewhere to last you generations of whatever you might need.

most cities will burn down taking most readily available supplies with them

All those airguns being posted remind me of the Caselman Air MG youtube.com/watch?v=lDqs2GSaCXs

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Liar

...

I'm wondering how a milled brass case would fare when shot?

>You're shit out of luck when it comes to primers
You can make fairly reliable primers by (carefully) grinding up self-striking match heads into a powder and packing it into a used primer cap.

Recommend me a patrician black powder firearm pls Jow Forums