So now that Germany agreed on France's plan for a European Army, how would you organize it? Are there any serious differences between Europeans doctrines?
Some facts: >this new plan will upgrade the PESCO (Permanent Structured Cooperation) agreement already in place >the objective is to reduce the number of EU weapon systems from 180 to around 30 >the European Parliament will have the power to authorize military operations in foreign territories >the EU plans to increase military spending and not only complete the projects already decided for PESCO (consilium.europa.eu/media/32079/pesco-overview-of-first-collaborative-of-projects-for-press.pdf) but develop new ones >the participating Member States in PESCO are: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Croatia, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Spain and Sweden >the Members States that already agreed with Macron's proposal are: France, U.K., Germany, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Denmark and Estonia
>Serbia not on the list Zastava will still gibs aks?
Adam Cook
Serbia is not a EU member (yet)
Dylan Fisher
Doubtful they will increase their military spending above 2%. Most of the countries involved are useless welfare states with out of date equipment and poor funding. But it’s a good first step towards Europe being able to actually defend itself without having to rely on the US
Poor slavs will fill the ranks for that high German wages, this will be a shit show.
Gabriel Roberts
I don't expect anything from this except cost-cutting masked as centralization. Most of those nations can barely operate on their own, let alone together. A chain is as strong as its weakest link. This chain is going all weak links.
Mason White
They can barely operate on their own because they don't have the budget to operate a complete military. They might operate a cheap tank and airlift solution that isn't compatible with another nation's. They might fire different ammunition or use different bombs. Making it standardized is always going to be a benefit.
Logan Carter
France couldn’t even into Africa without borrowing British and American planes to transfer men and vehicles. You want to trust them with a European army?
Lincoln Hughes
As skeptical as i am of the EU, i think centralization of their militaries would be a good way for European armies to play off of each other's strengths and increase readiness time. Or atleast make such a process more efficient. I may not agree with politics behind it, but if this plan really delivers what it is promising then i am all for it. Its an era of renewed great power struggles. When cold war 2.0 really starts to freeze over the more competent allies we have the better. T. Burger
Andrew Ortiz
>implying the EU army will be used for anything other than forcing uppity slavs to take in more niggers Contrary to what you clapniggers might think, the EU was not a single state but a coalition of sovereign states in a voluntary set of treaties. Until now, because now they seem to be doing what the feds did to your statehood in the mid 19th century and transferring national authority into the supranational institution, in effect destroying the sovereign states within.
Daniel Williams
>When cold war 2.0 really starts to freeze over the more competent allies we have the better. Haha yes, based friend! I don't necessarily agree with replacing my people with niggers but if that's what has to be done to show them pesky Russians, so be it!
Ryan Fisher
This, I think things may actually get cheaper. The problem will be to have a centralized command network
Juan Parker
No thanks. Limped dick authoritarianism is just dorky, it's like fascism without the aesthetics.
A EU Army will be utter shit. Even if it can agree on doing anything, nobody wants to die for fat gay bureaucrats.
Because that worked so well with the UN, fuck that.
Austin Diaz
Why would I? I want the EU to die.
Isaiah Parker
You're assuming they'll be more competent and not less competent when squeezed together. This is not some ideal scenario to theory craft over. This is a bullet point on an election campaign. Macron's specifically.
All i was saying is that a combined military budget and a equipment/command structure standardization program (which is essentially what an EU army would be) would help with readiness and efficiency. >>forcing uppity slavs to take more niggers >implying an EU army would be used against member states Oh ok your a retarded Jow Forums nigger conspiracy theorist, nevermind. Good post, based strawman. >UN Security Council >member states include military rivals >this causes it to be ineffective at solving military-related crisis Makes sense, rivals wont aid rivals with a goal that is detrimental to their cause. >EU Army >member states include military allies >this will somehow do the samd as above Lol ok
Josiah Turner
They don't even have to be "sqeezed together", though. They don't even have to operate together.
If you nation can't afford strategic airlift and your neighbour can't fit your equipment in theirs, you're shit out of luck. If its all the same equipment there's no problem in simply asking for them to run some logistics for you to get your armor somewhere you need it. That in itself is a huge benefit
Jacob Kelly
>no actual military operations mentioned these fuckers don't do shit but sit on their ass and soak up money
Adam Gray
The language barrier is the biggest barrier. The damn frogs are gay, regardless of chemicals in the water, and as such refuse to use any other language than their own. Eastern Europe speak their own language + russian, krauts speak german + random language, and more and more southern europeans speak english, thanks to tourism. Nobody can be bothered to learn to speak escargot, and the baguettes refuse to speak german. The whole thing will collapse because NONE OF THE COUNTRIES CAN AGREE ON ONE LANGUAGE. And english is definately off the table now that they left the union.
Unless they can agree on one large, centralized united army where you are forced to mix with people from all over Europe, and learn a language, like in the FFL, this won't work.
Isaiah Collins
And who's gonna set those standards? These militaries aren't even capable of setting proper modern standards for themselves. The people running this EU thing have even worse credentials. If the building blocks of this construct are non-functional then how is it gonna fare better when put together.
You're better off starting from scratch
Jace Campbell
The language is and has been English for a long time now
Joshua Jones
Soldiers already have to know English because of NATO And English is still a EU language thanks to Ireland (not that it matters, it would be used anyway)
Wyatt Brown
In NATO, sure, but the EU? I doubt most enlisted in the EU speak english.
Gavin Watson
EU can't agree on anything but replacing the native population with illiterate illegals Somehow they can be trusted with anything.
Fuck Eurocrats, they should be hanging from trees. The EU will not last much longer and if ever SHTF these traitors will get their comeuppance.
Zachary Green
>Are there any serious differences between Europeans doctrines? Just a big language gape...this hole fucking idea is a meme and a perverts dream.
Josiah Hughes
Tell me that picrelated is old. I thought they replaced these ugly bullpups with 416s.
Liam Hughes
>Oh ok your a retarded Jow Forums nigger conspiracy theorist, nevermind. Ignoring the truth won't make it go away, no matter how many downboats you fling its way >Richard Nikolaus Eijiro, Count of Coudenhove-Kalergi[1] (November 16, 1894 – July 27, 1972) was an Austrian-Japanese politician, philosopher, and Count of Coudenhove-Kalergi. The pioneer of European integration, he served as the founding president of the Paneuropean Union for 49 years, which would be the preliminary ideological foundation of the European Union.[2][3]
You are a fucking idiot and also the reason why the west is going down the drain. Chicoms and kikes will dominate the future while you LARP about a cold war against the Russians who are equally delusional. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_von_Coudenhove-Kalergi
>Eastern Europe speak their own language + russian Nobody in EU Eastern Europe outside the Baltics speaks Russian you dumb anglo. And just about everybody under 30 speaks English to some extent due to the internet.
Colton Stewart
yeah yeah go bomb a synagogue or something posting on Jow Forums isn't gonna fix a thing
What a retarded idea the EU won't last it's overstepping it's boundaries. This isn't like the US where everyone joined from the get-go, these people have millennia of heritage and they're not going to concede that to unelected bureaucrats and Jews.
Easton Ross
Oh no, he posted an infograph and quoted a wikipedia page. How will I ever recover? >west going down the drain Why is that? Muh degeneracy or muh non huwites dont count as valid answers. >larp about cold war with russia No, russia will not be the primary adversary. Russia is a poor as dirt shithole, but they are still dangerous as regional manipulators. Chicoms are the primary threat. My point was that Europe needs to be able to contain Russian influence on there own because we will be too busy with the chicoms. >>kikes >da jooooooooos I dont know why i even bother. Do us a favor and go outside. Talk to some friends. You do have friends, right user?
>>implying an EU army would be used against member states Come on dude, everybody knows the first step (or more realistically, last step) to a federal EU is an EU army. Which is why the idea gets proposed every month, and gets shot down every month. It's a slippery slope, and one thats about to get a lot more slippery once Britain leaves the EU.
That infograph needs to be updated, Ireland is now a part of PESCO.
Brayden King
>Doubtful they will increase their military spending above 2% I honestly feel like this is simply some sort of German Scheme where as a result they will end up paying even less.
Jose Murphy
>if this plan really delivers what it is promising HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Nicholas Foster
I think it'd be funny if they made a corps filled with multiple members of all the different countries, and force them through a gradually more and more harrowing experience where communication is key for survival and success.
Force them to figure out a new language on the spot based on what is the most effective at conveying the strictly necessary. After that, it'll be easy to add new recruits and have them learn the Euromil language.
At first, I can imagine it being a very direct language with lots of monosyllabic words and no flourish; then in 50 years, after Euromil has evolved to a "full" language, we can start having literature.
Damn, now I want to read a book about this!
Wyatt Robinson
> once Britain leaves the EU Not happening, they'll drag their feet until nobody remembers there was a referendum. Such is life in Bongistan.
> first step to a federal EU is an EU army What if I told you people don't want to be lorded over by greasy bureaucrats? This isn't going to last very long, nobody wants this crap.
So if the EU is going to have a united army, would troop totals be the millions? More than the Chinese?
Kevin Taylor
>Not happening, they'll drag their feet until nobody remembers there was a referendum. Such is life in Bongistan. This. The decision to join this bullshit socialist army is all the proof anyone would ever need. Brits who think otherwise are dreaming. Inb4 they tell me I know nothing about European politics though. Must be 8d chess for the independence party.
No chance considering most member state nations are something like
Henry Fisher
>CIA counters. Of course they could also go in an unexpected direction and fund nationalists across the "countries" which would be interesting to see..
Lucas Bailey
>This is another attempt at Germany circumventing US influence on the continent. Germany was very reluctant about the army, it agreed only a couple days ago. The main proposer it's France
Xavier Scott
>The main proposer it's France Neo-liberals have been pushing this meme for decades now, they even tried making this franco-german conscripted unit 20 years ago but eventually gave up.
Mason Brooks
I added up all of the active duty troops from nations that are in PESCO. It comes out to around 1.3 million. France was the largest group. Would probably around 1.8 million had i counted reserves.
Ryan Morales
German cucks Europe even harder by literally taking the guns away from their own armies.
Glad we are leaving.
Ethan Ortiz
good riddance.
Jordan Barnes
>Glad we are leaving. You wish.
Anthony Davis
Haha whatever faggot
Ryan Young
Who's the enemy of this new EU Army anyway? Russia? Trump? Israel? Turkey? These seem to be the countries the EU hates the most these days
Jace Hill
Shit I’m joining the foreign legion in the fall... what will this mean for me?
Ian Foster
Nothing, probably. Maybe a career in the future
Henry Ortiz
So the ffl is not going away? What about who will they fight? I really don’t wnt to fight westerners, was looking forward to stomping some shitskins or chinks tho
Brody Bailey
>But it’s a good first step towards Europe being able to actually defend itself without having to rely on the US
As a European I can assure you that this army will not be to defend Europe, rather to quell an uprising in the EUSSR once the people realized they've been tricked by the biggest haters of freedom in the history of mankind.
Seriously, getting our quasi-socialist hellholes to spend that 2% is as likely as a movement to enshrine a second amendment into any (western) european constitution.
Levi Wood
Macron wants this army to be able to carry on missions outside the EU So I guess he's thinking about Africa or the middle east
Levi Jones
What interests/worries me is how formerly neutral nations like Ireland, Austria, and Finland are now a part of this. Hell, the Swedes were neutral for several hundred years until they got involved in Libya. Makes me think maybe its only a matter of time before the Swiss give it up too. I hope not.
Jaxon Harris
Macron is the same faggot who proposed to PHYSICALLY LINK Europe to Africa. Of course he's talking about Africa and the ME.
A lot of people don't understand the geopolitics of continental Europe and especially not of France. What Macron essentially wants here is a French military at the European scale (including the permanent bullshit in former French colonial shitholes) so that France, having been completely outclassed economically by it's traditional rivals the UK and Germany, can still be (feel) stronk (somewhat).
The geopolitics of France are so simple and transparent, it's quite amazing really.
Bentley White
>Swedes were neutral for several hundred years until they got involved in Libya Forgetting that sweden had a much bigger role in Congo in the 60s while they just did recon in Libya
Liam Powell
That's because they're conducting something like five or six overseas operations at the same time.
Blake Reed
>the objective is to reduce the number of EU weapon systems from 180 to around 30 So who is going to have to change their shit? Will they standardise on a service rifle? MBT? APCs/IFVs? Standard uniforms?
Luke Davis
I would get rid of every military jet, drone and helicopter first. Then, i would send at least 500 000 troops with every tank in the EU over to the baltic states where i would order agents to target the russian minorities killing most of them and recording torture footage then i would fire every nuke at israel while all the army is ordered to affix bayonets and charge east at moscow, grozny and vladivostok while the police forces are tasked with attacking american bases in europe And yes, i would arm the police forces with zastava rifles the ones that dont get one because there will be shortages will be tasked to pick one up after the previous police officer with a zastava rifle was killed
James Mitchell
That's...actually kind of interesting. I imagine it'd be a hodgepodge of the easiest to remember words in each language for something. If the French call a tank le tonk, and Sweeds call it hinglebinglejorgenjorgen, tonk would win, and so on.
Grayson Kelly
They are all getting a draft back and there are going to be many "peacekeeping" missions in order to fuel European domination.
That being said it is going to be a conscript army so nothing too crazy.
Jose Hughes
>Avoiding all posted evidence of the ideological foundations of the EU Wow, you really showed him by ignoring information.
Charles Sullivan
I'm glad at least one of you poor fuckers is actually awake.
Imagine how much harder it will be for any countries that want to leave the EU in the future when their fucking military doesn't even belong to them anymore. I hope the pastaniggers gtfo while they still can.
Leo Edwards
France is the only true military power in Western Europe. Everyone else gets participation trophies
Nolan Miller
Having kleptocrats run the economies of all member states pisses on the idea that European nations were independent before this.
