Has anyone else noticed the lessening of caliber wars ever since the FBI returned to 9mm and dropped the .40 S&W? The FBI cites that improvements in defensive ammunition has effectively closed the gap between 9mm and its supposed more powerful brethren. This shuts up basically everyone below .357fags and 10mmfags.
FBI even skipped .45ACP way back when and still skips it now, .45 a shit
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Cool pointless shitpost, summertrash. Here's your (you).
I've been here longer than you've been out of gradeschool. Kick rocks, kid
>been here
>anonymous messageboard
Shut the fuck up loser
Why so mad tho?
Makes sense I suppose. High-reliability hollow points are a thing now, with good expansion and barrier blindness. So if a 9mm will make the target dead 95% of the time, there's little to improve- you can't get deader than dead.
>washington post, 2015
Lurk 10 more years before you challenge Jow Forums again, grasshopper
.40fags have been BTFO for a while OP. No need to rub it in. Meanwhile .45acp is still in Denial City.
No need for extra recoil and noise when you can get the job done with something moderate, I guess
shutup newfag
>discussion board for weapons
>how dare you discuss weapons related topics
>save this space for something more weapons related like post more traps hurr durr
Only guys I know that have shit in .40 is old dudes that drank the koolaid in the 90s and gangsta types that don't even know what they have. Even poorfags avoid the police trade ins for the most part.
>REEEE! STOP LIKING 40!!!
No.
I'm actually picking up a Detroit trade in MP40c soon.
What 9mmlets don't understand is that the soft shooting slav garbage then run through the gun is giving them a false sense of competency. Self defense 9mm is loaded pretty hot and is basically identical in terms of recoil to 40.
But hey, as long as the female "officers" can finally qualify using downloaded ammo it's all good.
>inb4 FBI's practice ammo is their duty ammo
Not relevant for 95% of departments out there.
>2018
>being this delusional
.40 Short and Weak has and always will be a joke
>not using magnum rounds in 2018
.357, .41, .44 and even Casull are welcome.
>.45 a shit
Well, it's a low-pressure cartridge, so it always has been and always will be underperforming for its size. That's just what you gotta do to cram a .45 caliber cartridge in a gun designed for 9mm (.38 ACP). Nobody but the US Army to blame; Browning was working on a prototype in a .41 cartridge before the Thompson-Lagarde tests.
Don't have exact ballistics or anything, but think about it:
>.41 caliber
>same OAL as .38ACP
Sound familiar? and as a more reasonable "stretch", they wouldn't have had to drop the pressure nearly so low.
Just think, within a few years we would have had ".41 Super" loads, damn near equivalent to 10mm Norma. Without .45's reduced capacity, excessive double-stack width, and mediocre ballistics, nobody would have fallen for the wondernine meme, and 9mm would have remained a cartridge for women and boys.
Fuck you, Army.
>using guns with capacity of 6
lmao
>.40 Short and Weak has and always will be a joke
>Look mom! I posted it again!
40 has superior energy to 45acp retard.
EL OH OL
Let an expert show you the truth youtube.com
Maybe then you will stop with the .40 schizophrenia
Sorry, but Paul has already pretty destroyed your argument and proves that nuFBI and LEOs following their lead are just a bunch of soibois who looking for a caliber that is easier with which to train people who have have never handled a gun before.
Stay new, summerfag.
>.40fag getting this upset
The only people that cry summerfag are newfags. mootykins proved long ago that traffic doesn't increase during the summer.
Purely anecdotal, but I've been seeing a lot of police trade-ins in .40s since the FBI report came out, and more used .40s in gun shops around town too. As for caliber wars .40fags usually got shat on by both the 9mm and .45 champs. I think what is ending the debate is the general acceptance that all pistol cartridges have about the same terminal performance with modern hollowpoints so it's better to have more capacity and less recoil.
if only men were allowed in the FBI it would be 10mm and 45
>I think what is ending the debate is the general acceptance that all pistol cartridges have about the same terminal performance with modern hollowpoints so it's better to have more capacity and less recoil.
Fucking perfect summary of what happened. The "big 3" are basically all the same in real world performance.
You're totally right too, I see promos from Sweaty Ben about .40 Glock Police trade ins all the time.
>No argument so here's a 30minute video of some guy shooting random targets in his backyard.
Amazing insight user. Maybe Speer or Hornady will hire you on their ballistics research team?
>230gr Sabre
391(ftlbs) 875(ft/s)
>Sabre 165gr 40S&W
485 1150
Not that it matters as Remington is shit and no PD would issue that garbage.
>hating on based Paul
get out
>but I've been seeing a lot of police trade-ins in .40s since the FBI report came out
That's because most PDs went to 40 in the 90s and you're seeing their old guns which were predominantly that caliber.
Doesn't mean they aren't buying 40s. My local departments all stayed with 40 and I know many others did too. 40 dominates 9mm on glass.
>muh (((celebrities)))
you get out.
No.
For the same barrel length and bullet weight, .40 and .45 have basically identical energy.
Yes, the range of bullet weights doesn't completely overlap -- on one hand you can't cram 230gr into a .40, and on the other hand, .40 can go to lighter bullets with higher energy -- but if you really believed in light, high-energy bullets, you'd go with .357sig anyway.
.40 does have slightly better sectional density, for what that's worth in a pistol round, but the only significant benefit of .40 is increased capacity in a smaller gun. The ballistics are so close as to make no difference.
>being this butthurt
How many .40 rounds do you have smuggled in your prison wallet right now?
>Doesn't mean they aren't buying 40s
THey sure aren't. There's a nationwide trend of PDs reverting to 9mm because .40 doesn't offer anything better. Your local backwater department is insignificant.
>There's a nationwide trend of PDs reverting to 9mm because .40 doesn't offer anything better.
Wrong. There's a nationwide sales pitch from the FBI and gun manufacturers though.
>For the same barrel length and bullet weight, .40 and .45 have basically identical energy.
Nice goalpost moving. Either way it's a win for 40 as you can carry more so I don't see the point in correcting you.
Also anyone claiming
>ammunition today
has no idea how PDs work. Unless you have non diversity hires working there you're stuck with whatever was issued in the 90s/early 00s most of the time. Bean counters don't flip through Operator Operating magazine each weak to buy the hottest ammo out every month.
>There's a nationwide sales pitch from the FBI and gun manufacturers though.
FBI doesn't sell guns you retard. If you don't trust their judgement now why do you trust their judgement about .40? It'd the dame organization.
Seriously fuck. FBI doesn't want .40 because they realize it doesn't offer anything over 9mm. Not capacity. Not recoil. Not killing capability. Not anything. .40 never should have existed. It's am abortion of a caliber.
implying that 10mm isn't .40SW Magnum
>unironically using 40 short & weak
Lmao dude just use 10mm master race
I like 45s for the weight of the cartridge, and i like 9mm for capacity, 40 seems like a solution nobody asked for looking for a problem.
>The FBI isn't selling new guns
>Everyone is switching to 9mm and piggybacking off federal ammo contracts because 40 is shit
which is it?
Do you have any idea how government contracts work? Do you honestly believe anyone in the FBI cares about getting the most effective weapon for agents?
It's all about money and making sure women and fags are able to qual. Sounds like awesome people to have on a call!
Bullet weight not cartridge, I apparently need sleep.
So piggybacking off of .40 contracts was okay though? Whew laddy
I'm not the one claiming federal contracts don't have economic impact like a sperg. Only a dipshit like you claimed that.
Show me exactly where I claimed that. Because I never did any such thing.
>FBI doesn't sell guns you retard.
>Get BTFO.
No....no it wasn't true! And btw I don't give a shit about the FBI shilling 40 because many podunk PDs at that time were still fucking around with revolvers. Glad they pushed semi autos on everyone.
FBI does not sell guns. That's different from what you said. You make no sense. You know what does make sense?
The FBI going back to 9mm.
>Be .357 Sig
>lots of mid range 1350-1450 fps loads comparable to many common .357 mag loads
>low recoil bitch loads if you want them too
>high end loads chrono 1510-1570 fps from a 4" bbl, completely superior to classic .357 magnum loadings and only meaninglessly slower(30fps) than top end modern .357 magnum 125gr loadings
>tons of bullets actually designed to handle these velocities, unlike some other calibers( cough, 10mm, cough)
>Post barrier performance BTFOs all other combat caliber handguns
>13+1 capacity in a compact firearm
>objectively superior bottleneck design
>less felt recoil than a .40
>available in many common quality designs
>can chuck lightweight 65gr meme bullets at rifle velocities
>ammo is priced the same as .357 magnum
This is objectively the best self defense handgun cartridge yet developed for two legged threat, the lack of appreciation it receives is criminal. Do your part and go buy a .357 sig firearm today!
No. im seriously getting tired of BTFOing this obviously incorrect argument. .45 ACP +p has superior energy within common weight ranges to .40 S&W. Hell, if you go around and look at major ammo manufacturers you'll even see some of them loading standard pressure .45 to higher energy levels than their .40 offerings. Do some fucking research, man.
.357 Sig is the redheaded stepchild of autoloader calibers. It never gained traction anywhere. Which sucks because it's such a good caliber for barrier penetration.
That's you
>The FBI going back to 9mm.
which has no effect on other pd's purchasing decisions per your statements.
45 acp is irrelevant with WVSP being the last major holdout. don't care desu.
Not him, and you are correct, but Moot was a newfag too.
Know how I can tell you are an underage nogunz?
>which has no effect on other pd's purchasing decisions per your statements.
I never said that either. You're putting words in my mouth. Read these words.
.40 sucks. Deal with it.
If you're gonna cry nogunz you better be posting your own faget
>You're putting words in my mouth.
>FBI does not sell guns.
Awo what's this?!
Glad to hear 40S&W isn't going anywhere since the FBI doesn't effect local PD sales. Thanks user!
>45 acp is irrelevant with WVSP being the last major holdout. don't care desu.
Im sorry, are you quoting the wrong post? Or are you just backpedaling that hard from the retarded and false claim you made about .40 being a more energetic caliber than .45?
You know the FBI chose 9mm because of women and manlets, right?
I like 9mm, .40, and .45.
Thoughts?
>seems like a solution nobody asked for looking for a problem.
That describes all cartridges made after the 80s.
>making direct comparisons
>goalpost moving
My bad, I inferred some reasonable qualifiers to your original statement
>40 has superior energy to 45acp
If it was to be read as
>there exists some .40s&w gun A and load X, and some .45acp gun B and load Y, such that load X fired from gun A has more energy than load Y fired from gun B.
then I stand corrected; .40 does beat .45.
But if that's the sort of thing we're going with, I can make the equally true assertion that .45acp has superior energy to .40s&w.
>any old 180gr .40
>keltec p40
under 400 ft*lb
>liberty civil defense 78gr .45
>AMT Hardballer Longslide
over 600 ft*lb
buffalobore.com
buffalobore.com
You can cherry pick loads all day. Bottom line, 99% of 40 ammo in department circulation blows the doors off of 99% of department issued 45acp.
Limited 40 to your bullshit bullet constraints is just nigger rigging to argue.
You'd also have to ingnore that most 45acp is clocked at 5" barrel length for 1911s while 40 is nearly always 4".
>gets outted as an ignorant underage nogunz faggot
>"y-your a nogunz"
Don't you have homework or something?
Sounds reasonable. I like all three rounds, too.
My pd trade-in Glock 22 might be a tad more flippy than a Glock 17, but not by much. Considering I paid 300 for it, in pretty happy.
Here's a question:
Of the big three, which would you want to be shot with most?
Tired old meme
>Of the big three, which would you want to be shot with most?
If we're talking about hardball at standard pressures, then 9mm easily. If we're talking hollowpoints, then all 3 will fuck your shit up really good.
Still not the same thing, manchild
>I don't agree so its a meme
Not an argument.
How do you know when schools have homework? Did you just graduate highschool? That's adorable, user. When's your party? Are you begging your dad for a moist nugget like all the cool kids on Jow Forums have?
>You can cherry pick loads all day. Bottom line, 99% of 40 ammo in department circulation blows the doors off of 99% of department issued 45acp.
>source: buffalo bore loads
Are you actually brain damaged or something? You really bitch a lot about other people arguing disingenuously for somebody who's a half a step removed from lying through their teeth. Here, lets compare some actual reasonable loads of the variety that PDs issue if thats what you want to fixate on. Since 165gr .40 duty ammo is about as common as 185 or 200gr .45 the REASONABLE loads to compare would be 230gr to 180gr, the stereotypical weights for each caliber.
>winchester ranger T
>230gr: 446ftlbs
>230gr +p: 495ftlbs
>180gr: 387ftlbs
>federal HST
>389
>461
>384
>speer gold dots
>405
>518
>420
Should i keep going? People like you are why licenses should be required for procreating.
>mootykins proved long ago that traffic doesn't increase during the summer.
Don't get it twisted. Moot said it didn't increase by much. There is an increase in traffic during the summer, just not as much as people think there is.
Summerfags gon' summer
>How do you know when schools have homework?
Are you an LD student or just stupid? Its ok, you can maybe own funs one day little boy.
>Look mom! I cherry picked again!
Congrats user you won! Looks like 45ACP is pretty shit in comparison to 40. Thanks!
Oooh, I hit too close to home.
>cherry picking
>the three most common and well respected duty ammos on the market
>barrel length 4"
>Barrel length 5"
>ignoring the 165gr that shits all over 45
B...but muh 45! Did you even read your own sources?
Intelligent Umaru poster
You don't even know where home is nogunz.
>Umaruposting
You started posting in 2016. Kys
>>federal HST
You lying fucking nigger lover. Even 180gr shits on 45acp with the HST load.
408 vs 404.
Dumb nigger I'm done with you.
>he just keeps replying
Wew
>shits on
>4 ft lbs difference
Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahhaha
*inhales*
AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
>wrong
>has to fake stats
AHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAA!
What is the incentive to move back? FBI is big enough that they could order whatever cost effectively.
The incentive is that 9mm is easier to control while delivering imperceptible differences in performance from .40 or even .45 for that matter.
>What is the incentive to move back?
Women and limp wrists. Same reason they went from 10mm to 40S&W. Same reason they issued 38spl even though they had 357 magnum revolvers.
>B..but, this time it's different guise!
Still shoot 40sw and don't care. Favorite caliber is 45colt. I like my bullets T H I C C .
>no one even mentions 7.62x25
Jow Forums really is nogunz
Meme dead end caliber
>4" v 5"
It's literally a difference of 30-50 fps for .45 on average, I might as well complain about the polygonal barreling on the G23s they typically use for testing the .40 at that point.
>ignoring the 165gr that shits all over 45
>talking about loads nobody issues in a conversation about the loads that "99% of police departments issue"
Ok then
>ignoring that 185gr +p shits all over 165gr
honestly i didn't even notice the muzzle numbers, just the 25y ones, mb. +p 230 still btfos the 180 though.
Only good for neck shot executions.
>being so new he doesn't know he's shitposting and his feelings got hurt
>Paul proving anything with meat puppets soda jugs and cinder blocks
50% reduction in ammo costs.
>38181722
(((You)))
>50% reduction in ammo costs.
Not even close. FBI doesn't have range spec ammo, or at least they didn't when they gave their last seminar here. Defensive 40S&W and 9mm is within 10% on large contracts.
.40 was never good
If only men were allowed in the FBI, they'd be using dual 500s&w magnums
>discussing about ammunition for firearms is now shitposting
we've reached a whole new level
.40fags are just anally annihilated about the truth. Just like this guy
Agreed except for the 9x25 dillon. I wish that round caught on.
>ive never shot a gun before so listen to my opinion
Nogunz
Nice projection. That's all .40fags are good at after all