How did Hirohito and Tojo fuck up so badly

Shut up

>posting a video game as historical evidence

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>he doesn’t use video games as historical evidence

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Sleeping Giant
Status: AWAKENED

They legit thought americans were a bunch of pussies that would be easy to beat.

Much like vatniks claim now.

lol faggot

They were already playing war trying to be the big dick on campus they should have planned ahead.

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This is entirely fucking wrong.
This is less wrong.
1/2
Essentially Japan modernizes in a western fashion economically and militarily but not at all socially, in the Meji Restoration. Then the Russo-Japanese War happens. Japan now thinks they can into empire. This is further supported by the fact that they are the only large Asian population not getting dicked on by the west. Inside Japan there is a huge fight between lets call them the conservatives, the liberals, and the radicals. Now stop these terms mean something completely different in Japanese terms. Conservatives want to slowly take over Asia using superior Japanese culture. Liberals want to quickly take over Asia because they want free enterprise and to compete on a world stage economically. Radicals want to pretty much murder/rape conquer Asia and impose a Monroe like doctrine. However, all of these factions want little to know social change at home or if they do they want like a more pure conservative Japan at home.
China then gets invaded. When more like Manchuria which while technically part of China isn't really under their control. The Manchukuo Imperial Army then become a breeding ground for radicals. Eventually the radicals gain political power. The radicals really want a Monroe doctrine in the Pacific and America is not about that.

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Jews, profiting on both sides.

>attack america for embargos
>they'll totally drop the embargos after witnessing our might and not start shit
>proceed to make a piss poor attempt at destroying america
>get eternally btfo which would have been the outcome 100% of the time across all realities
No, the Japs were retarded and got their ass handed to them in a war they started under their own volition.

2/2 probably
So Japan pushes farther into China. Chinese communists or the Japanese cause a massive shootout. This pisses off the rest of the world and especially America because the Japanese killed the Chinese Nationalists forces. So begins a comedy of errors that is basically Japan backs the wrong anti-communist horse and forever pisses off Chiang Kai-shek. This pisses off America. Then there is a coup and the military gets more power in Japan. Now Japan promises to leave China mostly alone but can't because in Northern Manchuria well they are the only order if they leave all hell would break loose. The failure to leave China causes the American's to impose sanctions. Now this would be like your cool older friend that's been super supportive of you kicking you in the mouth. This was caused by A) America breaking Japan's diplomatic code B) the FDR's Sec. of State hating the fuck out of yellow people and C) a really fucking crazy Japanese foreign minister. Because of the sanctions Japan goes and joins the Axis powers, less because they agree with policies of Italy and Germany and more because they need allies against the soviets. This extra pisses off America, so more sanctions. Now the Japanese Army is really pissed about the sanctions and thinks they can fight and win against America. Literally everyone else in the government realizes this a bad fucking idea. Well through another comedy of errors and the America Sec of State hating yellow people war kinda looks like the best option at this point. The navy still thinking this is a bad fucking idea comes up with Pearl Harbor. Because the American's have broken the Japanese Diplomatic code but ignore the American ambassador the American's put the screws on Japan in the form of a treaty to lift the sanctions. The Japanese Government which is now basically the Army and Navy had made the call weeks ago that it was either war or the treaty. Army supports war Navy doesn't. Then the war happens.

A war they started because they felt there were no other options because of American betrayal and/or stubbornness. The government really wanted peace but they were not going to give up the nations honor for it.

>we're going to attack the americans
>they are going to drop the embargos
>and leave us alone to attack china
Yeah, real smart move. Still 100% under their own volition they were not coaxed into fighting by the US.

>no other option

or you know they could have backed off on their unprovoked military excursions and not made treaties with the Axis powers

Weaboos kys
>join league of nations after doing errends for britshits
>us happily engages in MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CONSENTING PARTIES
>think you're hot shit because you took over some German islands, and kinda fucked the poorly equipped tsar and red army.
>make clear intentions to invade the pacific
>violates league of nations shit and gets kicked.
>us sanctions because of that
>don't stop invading, taking manturia, reengaging soviets, attacking Korea Hong Kong etc.
>us more sanctions.
>literally not gonna do business with you because you're not good. And you're not getting along with my friends.
>also you're allied with that guy who doesn't like my other business partners
>but has no intentions of active fighting.
>even offered peace treaty
>Free market af.
>eventually get starved for resources as the poorer industry lacking AZN nations turn out to not be all that profitable
>"let's attack the most industrialized nation in the world, because they'll totally just cower away. And lift sanctions if we do that. And Germany nosenpai will totally notice us."
>treaded in the wrong snekerhood.

And that is the story of how Japan became kawaii.

Completely ignorant of the historical facts.
>not made treaties with the Axis powers
I will give you this. That was not the greatest move but they were a stronger alliance against Russia than America.
>unprovoked military excursions
In indochina sure but not in China. There was way to much on the line at that point. It would be like asking America to back out of Texas.

>historical facts
Facts like starting a war you wouldn't be able to win? Please walk me through the logic of "attacking the us makes the embargos go away and they leave us alone".

does anyone have the german version

Jesus christ, this whole fucking thread. Is this what /his/ is like all the time?

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Hey im looking to find the type of rifle issued to pacific infantry/island hoppers my grandpa died before i could meet him and id like to know what his service rifle was (don't know his unit or anything just US army grunt)

They made their gamble (it wasn't that bad of a gamble) and lost, the real fuck up was not admitting defeat and continuing to fight long after the jig was up.

Hirohito was for all intents and purposes not there, Tojo completely misunderstood the situation. Read Eri Hotta's book Japan 1941. Hotta is a bad writer but gives enough facts that you can understand. Especially if you read Saburo Sakai's book and Tameichi Hara's book, all three of which illustrate the same problem from very different angles: the Japanese leadership was indescribably stupid. They had stunningly talented people in the middle level but almost every top level person should have been flayed and boiled.

The government had a weak and confused faction that wanted peace (which included Hirohito) and a strong and confused faction that wanted war.

Poor planning + Tactics + Weak industrial base
Read Strong Men Armed: The United States Marines Against Japan. It shows the incompetency of Japanese admiralty in situations where they should have been able to do much more damage.

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the real answer?
they didnt.
you got a fucking island devoid of natural resources that was the spark and definition of the modernization of a turn of the century army.
they went out and fucked up everybody in their way taking what they wanted. china? nigga we want dat shit. korea? fuck it give us that also. russia? fuck you we about to smash and grab this shit. british colonies? southeast asia? the USA?
fuck em. we out here. we about that life.

and they did. they fucked everybody up.
they had no resources, no industrial base and they still fucking kicked everybodies shit in and made it happen.

>it was like watching wynona ryder vs brock lesnar in a UFC match
>she keeps going for the knockout because its her only chance
>and you just keep waiting for brock to get her to the ground and end it already
>but she keeps on fucking him up every time he goes for a take down
>it goes 3 rounds and she goes down because she is just gassed and cant take the weight of the ground game
the japs were punching 10x above their weight class and they knew it.
the only thing they fucked up on was army vs navy vs old guys getting in the way of progress and ignoring the good commanders. also they drank the koolaid of jap katana so stronk how could american piggu even compete?
again that was at the upper echelon.
japs were the opposite of italians.

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Dipshits think that they can force a nation more than 20 times larger to get on their knees and start sucking by killing a few of their citizens. Find out that when the nation you just tried to fuck with actually values their sovereignty, has an active military-industrial complex, and values the lives of its citizens, and when you don't knock out any of their aircraft carriers before starting a largely navy-driven war, your odds of success go down drastically.

enjoy!

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>the japs were punching 10x above their weight class
What? Early success against China isn't surprising in the least when China hasn't had time to modernize due to being fractured by foreign powers and civil war for a whole century. Even then the Japanese failed to conquer it completely. The Japanese didn't even kick the Russians' shit in because they gave up after Khalkhin Gol. When they finally fought the US they couldn't even build upon the attack on Pearl Harbor for long before Midway, at which point industrial base didn't matter and the Japanese were supposed to win.

>Japan stop raping china
>FUCKA YOU, WHITU PIGGU
>no seriously stop or we'll turn off your oil
>HOW DARE YOU DISRESPEC HONORABRU NIPPON WITH WHITTU PIGGU SANCTIONS
>*bombs anchored fleet in port*
Yeah, totally our fault.

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Yeah.....they sure "made it happen"......

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stfu weeb

God damn phone posters

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Japan in 1930-1945 is what happens when keeping it real goes wrong in the international politics realm.

this.

USA didn't give two shits about China and let Japan rape China for a whole decade. US only flipped out when Japan occupied a French colony.

This is just an American fantasy. Japan was arrogant and mean so they attacked America. The truth is American involvement was inevitable and Japan logically took the initiative to delay it.

You mean
>assume (correctly) that America would attack eventually
>take the initiative to cripple Hawaiian base, which was the cornerstone of American logistics in the Pacific

>'Logically' took initiative to delay military involvement of a power
>By initiating military involvement against said power
I've read that 1930s Nip officers were autistic retards, but that's impressive.

Without Pearl Harbor, the US sends its navy to prevent Japanese capture of the DEI and the Philippines in January of 1942. With PH, the US has to wait until 1943 to start retaking all the islands Japan took.

Don't forget the American volunteers in China.

it's like japan had plans to kick america in the dick so they wanted to get a really good kick in for the first one

>cripple Hawaiian base
Lel thats a good one tojo