So how will this affect the U.S. strategic arsenal and U.S. Nuclear policy...

The IRBM/Gryphon deployment wasn't anything to do with first strike advantage, it was a PsyOp to feminize anti-war movements in Europe to reduce desertion rates during the doomsday draft. Seneca Women's Encampment and the Greenham Common Women's Peace Camp were planned by Special Branch/MI5/CIA and various NATO countries' intelligence agencies before the missiles were even deployed.

The "leaderless" women's protest camps dictated an all-female anti-nuclear protest that lasted more than a decade and agents made the women dress up as witches and scream like banshees, smother themselves in filth and act like idiots giving the press fodder to make anti-war activists look like demented cat ladies. Even after the Soviet Union collapsed peacefully and the missiles were removed from the base, they kept the cat lady protests going until the War on Terror, protesting a base with no IRBMs or GLCMs.

Hell yeah that means USAF is going back to GLICMs soon! USAFE deployments coming back!

Pershing three probably, sucks because rather conventional war the nukes will roast all of Europe

This is actually a good thing you dumbt libcuck. Try watching something other than cnn.

>Isn't this just legroom for Trump to appear tough on Russia because they're not going to actually nuke each other and it's about whether a hypothetical not going to happen WW3 results in The Road or Chicxulub extinction
no

>Yeah, well that was a lie to cover up a test of the D5 and the power grid and basically both the West and Russia found out that the star-spotting system on their SLBMs can be bamboozled by controlling the power grid to make it mirror the night sky and both countries lost the part of the nuclear triad that can't be detected/knocked out completely in a first strike. So they're scrambling to find alternatives.
what in the fuck are you talking about?

No.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons

Of course, the US really does need the ability to develop intermediate ground based intermediate range weapons. The lack of strong air and naval forces means that ground basing is the only viable strategy for deploying large numbers of weapons. Furthermore the geography of America means that intermediate range weapons are a natural fit for ranging its enemies and projecting force into Europe.

Oh wait thats Russia, not the US.

>any sort of nuclear proliferation being a good thing

I will remind you that the INF was a Reagan-era initiative.

This does very little for our actual interests. Russia's nuclear program is entirely defensive to offset the fact that their conventional military is content to rape itself to death. The concern over China is less satisfying since the INF did not restrict Submarine Launched Missiles, and all this does is nuke any shred of credibility we might have had with North Korea or Iran as we continue to pursue the denuclearization of either country. Why would they negotiate with a country that has decided to re-arm themselves?

>So how will this affect the U.S. strategic arsenal and U.S. Nuclear policy?

A return of Pershing missiles (but with hypersonic boost glide warheads) and ground launched Tomahawks.

Attached: Pershing_II_-_4th_test_launch.jpg (2400x3000, 1.52M)

>any sort of nuclear proliferation being a good thing
>the US is not a nuclear armed nation with a large quantity of warheads

>The US really does need the ability to develop ground based intermediate range weapons.

You are correct.

The treaty involves mid-ranged ballistic missiles but isn't just limited to nuclear missiles, it covers nuclear capable missiles. The US doesn't want to lag in hypersonic mid ranged missile tech, so naturally we want to expand our options for it. Since our main rival (China) is starting to get into hypersonics, we want to expand our own ballistic missile programs to maintain parity. Ideally we can also sell it to our allies, who may find a strong "fuck you" deterrent to be desirable. Say, the Japanese. If the new gen mid-range missiles are also nuclear capable and capable of reducing the capability and survivability of our rival's anti-ballistic missile shields and their command-and-control systems... that's an added bonus.

Ultimately, this arms treaty was meant to be between the US and Russia. The second a new power got involved it was going to be broken. The US doesn't want to be eternally hamstrung by some deal with Russia.

He's saying that the INS systems on a cruise missile (not the GPS, at least older INS relies on the missile comparing it's position to the constellations) can be tricked by making city lights at night resemble the night sky, at which point the INS system shits out. That's... an interesting proposal, and would only really work at night given how white-washed the ground would be by sunlight. but I'm no expert on how sensitive the INS system is towards sunlight reflection.

You can't just cite the NPT and expect it to mean anything than a vague "we promise to work towards getting rid of nukes at some vague point in the future but btw we can totally leave the NPT if we feel the need because article X explicitly says you can".

Plenty of countries have violated the NPT with no penalty: India, Pakistan, Israel, and even South Africa for a bit.

Sea based, air based, experimental, test targets and export missiles were all allowed under INF.

Trident II was double the range of Trident 1 and ensured a second strike with unacceptable losses for Russia if they launched a first strike, The dissolution of the USSR meant Russia didn't have a conventional advantage in Europe which meant theatre ballistic missiles were obsolete.

They're scrapping the INF treaty because they need new second strike technology as both sides found Trident II and Russia's already unreliable Bulava SLBMs star-positioning cameras could be spoofed by connecting BMEWS and Don-2s to a Smart Grid and create controlled blackouts based on where the 'vampire' is located making the missile tumble out of control before it releases its RVs.

But not land. Which would be nice for many of our allies, and just flexibility

this is an idiotic decision that will lead to a possible nuclear confrontation.
hopefully the EU can stop this madness.

>He's saying that the INS systems on a cruise missile (not the GPS, at least older INS relies on the missile comparing it's position to the constellations) can be tricked by making city lights at night resemble the night sky, at which point the INS system shits out.

It's a combined INS/Star-Spotting Camera that the SLBMs use for targeting. Before star-spotting the CEP was massive which is why they had higher yield warheads. They winded down to much smaller yields because of the reduced CEP because of the star-spotter but the star-spotter was discovered to be vulnerable to a smart grid connected to a ballistic missile warning system in simulations and at least one real world test which was under controlled conditions where they knew which 2 stars were to be spoofed - but this proved that a blackout that mirrored the stars could make current SLBMs shit the bed .

So Russia is going to nuke the US for backing out of a treaty Russia doesn't even follow?

We could already build, test and sell intermediate range ground weapons.

The only thing the US gains from this is the ability to operate its own ground based intermediate range weapons. And were are they going to go? Taiwan is out, we have no permanent ground base there. South Korea is out, we literally had to sneak in THAAD under the cover of darkness, there is no way an offensive system is getting in. Japan is pointless as we already have hundreds of naval launched TLAMs. You might be able to base a few in Europe but not enough to offset the problems - both military and diplomatic - raised by the Russian systems.

Overall it was a bad move.

>this is an idiotic decision that will lead to a possible nuclear confrontation.

How?

Because orange man is bad, do you not watch CNN?

i don't even care anymore.

This is so ridiculous and belies a misunderstanding of how then INS functions - please send me the .ru source so I can finish my night off with a laugh

Attached: lel.png (651x504, 88K)

>"The azimuth to the target is determined by choosing a guide star that is over (or nearly over) a target of interest."

It has nothing to do with the INS. The bus spins around rapidly to search for the guide star(s), if the star-spotter tells the missile it's in Timbuktu because a smart grid/BMEWS blackout beneath it spoofs the stars above it when it's over Colorado the INS isn't going to save it from tumbling or hitting the middle of nowhere.

Also explain why in the year the US Navy was notified of the star-spotting vulnerability, the UK subsequently had 5 DASO launch test 'failures' which is a joint US-UK test yet the success rate for the US missile testing (the UK sources the same trident missiles from the US) was fine.

So they can fuck with the lights in civilian power grids using AIs to confuse mid-rante nuclear missiles by somehow fucking with the starfinder?

With city lights?

I doubt it has anything to do with AI.

>Where are they going to go?
On ships.

Put your trip on

We already have those.
INF was only about ground launched weapons.

Attached: USN TLAM.png (2100x1400, 1.09M)

The GPS satellites would probably be shot down by the time an SSBN receives launch orders. That's why SLBMs aren't armed with GPS because they assume they will be used in a GPS-denied environment because of ASAT/EMPs. They wouldn't be able to update their precise azimuth at periscope depth using a GPS relay so they would have an INS that has accumulated errors during the time spent submerged. This would already add errors to the missiles accuracy.

So the INS accuracy on the missile would be offset by INS errors on the ballistic missile sub. The enemies smart grid would cause a total blackout upon detecting a first strike to prevent EMP damage, their Ballistic Missile Warning radar would track where the likely target of the SLBM is (an airbase/minuteman silos/a city) and update the grid to turn on lights selectively to mirror the stars above. The bus gyro stabilizes when it finds the star and fixes on to it to correct for INS errors as it approaches the target but the camera is spinning during bus separation - the development for trident II started around the same time as the Oko satellite that detected false launches due to sunlight off clouds so its not some next-gen system that could discriminate a blacked out landmass vs the sky against an actual next-gen system that's spoofing it. Even if the countermeasures only work at night that's a 6-8 hour window in a very fast war.

I doubt it exists.

Nuclear weapons are a complete meme. Nuclear powers do not fight wars: NOBODY is stupid enough to trust ABM with millions of lives. Even a NK tier arsenal is sufficient to deter aggression.

Attached: C8XMYo4XsAAoeEu.jpg (893x684, 61K)

>It has cat ears

China will be a failed state within 50 years, how much can they really progress in the 5 years if 50% of their economy dependent on exports to the US gets wrekt?

Another arms race would bankrupt Russia.

>implying that (((Western aristocracy))) cares about the )))peasants((( and that they don't have hideouts.
Some (((top people))) in the West are getting desperate because they gambled that they would be able to get Russia out of the way is this did not happen, now their own DIEversity, feminism, degenracy etc is turning against them because all that the Russian-Chinese axis have to do is to wait until the West is third-world tier, (((they))) literally created their Frankenstein Monster. Now the clock is going "tic-tac" and they are getting more and more desperate and some of them are having crazy ideas and the Russians know it...

Cringe.ru

ABM systems when placed close to enemy launch site can severely thwart the enemy's ability to launch a counter-attack.

How can you trust a country where the government is blatantly partisan that it can't even agree on foreign policy?

You make agreements while a Democrat (or Republican) is in office, but if the opposing party gains power later all those deals could become moot.

This is why Hillary should've won. The US needs stability if we want people to listen to us.

It will benefit Russia, because Trump is a Putin puppet.

Hopefully Mueller nails him soon.

The fuck are you doing with parenthesis? Are you having a stroke?

It is just Jow Forums speak, so yes, that user is having a stroke.

Attached: ab6c70696e5127a5722b64ff92942d64c93c894477f561675a8948134a267a8c.png (700x3050, 1.07M)

he's talking about yids you bagel

Attached: 15065018740520.jpg (604x604, 270K)

British Defense Secretary Gavin Williamson expressed support for the intention of US President Donald Trump to withdraw from the Treaty on the Elimination of Medium and Small-Range Missiles with Russia.

Attached: 1507872158541.jpg (750x725, 67K)

The (((blackmailed))) pedophile would say that wouldn't he?

It's more about China than Russia. China colonizing Africa is probably the #1 global issue right now and the media is silent about it.

Attached: jewUsa.jpg (741x1199, 114K)

Russia didn't follow the treaty anyway.
They just saying something like 'Range of this missile is exactly 499 kilometers' or something like this.
Now, let's see how Putin reacts to US nukes in Poland or Estonia.

>shut down any actual conversation with shitty memes
>"n-n-no you're the npc!!!"

Attached: PutMeM.jpg (1034x580, 62K)

>pershing missiles
so we already lost the missile arms race.

That has nothing to do with my post.

observer.com/2017/12/us-military-has-presence-in-50-of-54-african-countries/

npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/04/28/605662771/the-military-doesnt-advertise-it-but-u-s-troops-are-all-over-africa?t=1540133455594

strategic-culture.org/news/2018/08/30/us-military-presence-in-africa-all-over-continent-still-expanding.html

Attached: juGle.jpg (983x923, 186K)

I hate this more than anything. The ones spouting the NPC memes often think less then the ones they reply to.

The fact that you interpreted that as literal Pershing I missiles...

It angers you because it hit close to home.

Yeah...then you or Americunts have nothing to fear about, right? So stay on the arms treaty :^)
youtu.be/nZAY8J37-PE

Attached: Collapse.jpg (350x200, 26K)

Russia does have a large muslim population so that image fits.

Yeah we have a lot of small outposts and a few drone areas. Often we do Counter Terror type training and advising, because its cheaper to throw a few Green Berets, UAVs, and SEALs to train Africans and blow up insurgents than it is to deal with Rwanda Genocide 2.0: melanin boogaloo or, more likely, keep an eye on terrorists there so we dont have issues like Osama and Al Qaeda chilling in east africa again

Again,I don't see what your point is. Military bases are meaningless besides projection of global power. US doesn't actually benefit from having military bases all over the world, we're just LARPing as an empire. Colonization is about labor and resources, which is what China's goal is. China won't need the US if their economy is much better than ours due to availability of resources.

>China colonizing Africa is probably the #1 global issue right now
Only in your gender-fluid head.
>the media is silent about it.
Because it's only in your in your gender-fluid head.

>This does very little for our actual interests. Russia's nuclear program is entirely defensive to offset the fact that their conventional military is content to rape itself to death

you cant be that stupid...i mean ok i get it you want to shit on russia thats fine but calling an end game weapon such like the nukes a "defense" weapons is the very definition of stupidity
they deter the country from ever being defeated because then the usage of nuclear weapons is on the table
such is the doctrine of usa china and russia since the 70s

because hitting you from kamchatka and practicly having 90% of the us on your hit list with an 5.500km irbm is bad

youtube.com/watch?v=8iS0-Mu-yLM

Attached: 511.jpg (300x300, 43K)

Russia was freely ignoring the treaty anyway, so it was only holding the US back in terms of weapons development.

So, are ultra long range cruise missiles a go?

>the guide star
do you even know how they profile the "guide star" ?
the typical lux in space for lets say vega which is a star typically found on the north usa has an M of 0.02
for a fucking city to create such brightness to fool all the GOLIS inside of a missile you would have already burned alive all of its citizens
not to mention that you can just add infinite numbers of star points to be aligned at the same time

you forgot
>just add a fucking device to measure the bus's rotation and ignore any contacts that are coming from the nadir

poland didnt even wanted their nuclear capable systems on their land what makes you think they will just slap some us made ones?

No, clearly the state of the art missile can't tell up from down and will be confused by lights on the ground.

american missiles have even return to home function
youtube.com/watch?v=rSwzwMAVc14

So now the Russians get to keep the missile that was the violation and the US has to develop a new capability to match from whore cloth?

You think this was a good idea?

*whole

>whore cloth
>U.S Nuclear Missiles covered in the skin of slain thots
Metal as fuck

>so now Russia gets to keep doing what it already was doing and wasn't going to stop doing regardless

Yes.

I'm not even a Chinaboo but people have been saying "China's rapid growth will collapse within the next few years" for like 30 years now.

>implying the Russians are going to give up the missile
Yes, because the problem is the Russians, not the Chinese who quite clearly don't give a flying fuck about the INF.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read here. This is dumber than /pol thinking that the Israelis are nuking Syria every time there is an explosion caught on film.

>was doing and wasn't going to stop doing regardless
You are also a fucking moron.

jfc, Jow Forums. How far you have fallen.

>not the Chinese who quite clearly don't give a flying fuck about the INF.
So then what does the US get vis a vis China with the INF gone? What capability would the US get that it currently does not have in that theater?

Hi Opp, long time no see.

Do you genuinely believe that the US doesn't have similar capabilities in design stages?

>Hi Opp, long time no see.
Hello. Sadly, I am already sorry someone linked me this thread.

>Do you genuinely believe that the US doesn't have similar capabilities in design stages?
Not that I am aware of. They don't really have a need for them.

There have always been a lot of idiots on Jow Forums, thanks for coming by once in a while to clean it up.

yes.

Fuck off, Oppenheimer. Go back to the days where you made those great educational nuke threads or go back to your discord. It's quite obvious that pulling out of the treaty is an effort to punish the Russians for their blatant aggression while also opening up an opportunity for some proper GLCMs to counter the Chinese.

The ability to make and deploy IRBMs + GLCMs again? China is going to shut down most of the SCS, the East China Sea, and the Yellow Sea when a war kicks off. The ability to deploy GLCMs and SRBMs in places like Japan and South Korea will be absolutely devastating to any plans they have of world domination. Have fun countering the US's possibly sparse and limited naval deployments when they have enough GLCMs sitting around to flatten Shanghai thrice.

As said earlier in this thread, the treaty simply can not stand as is with another major power posing a risk to one of the parties. Trump's only other option is to negotiate a new treaty that will allow both parties to develop and deploy missiles only when those missiles are targeted at another non-signatory state, and good luck pulling that off.

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