Modern castles and defensive structures?

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Country of origin?

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Off the coast of England, and I believe its a resort now.
that's all I have related to fortifications

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Did these methods see widespread use? Or were they mostly conceptual?

the Atlantic Wall had lots and lots of these, and other traps beside

Anyone ever gone full morlock or CHUD and tried building a tunnel? It's kind of odd but once in a while it's like people find these hidden caves under a house or something and it's all hand carved and stuff. Like some latent psycho person just thought it'd be fun to spend their time digging out a secret cave and stuff under a house or something. Well maybe they're not psychos but nobody enjoys digging there's got to be some kind of screw loose there to do it as a hobby.

Thanks! Obviously I don't know too much about the subject. Looks cool though.

kind of related

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Damn. Couldn't fathom the time/tools needed to make something like that. Something the size of pic could be a one man job?

No, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want to dig an elaborate network of trenches with a fortified command bunker in my front yard.

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well there is a documentary of a guy out in Nevada or Arizona who lives in limestone mountain just carving up rooms. depending on the location, the materials available, and time to do it all. Its not that hard to fathom one person digging.

how would you go about modernizing a fort like this?

I don't think you can. There's a reason we don't see too many castles/immobile fortifications nowadays.

yea i guess modern bunker busters and such make fortifications totally moot in todays world. however you still need hardened installations for all sorts of things right?

I suppose so. But most modern warfare is based on mobility. Bases such as pic related should be well behind enemy territory.

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If you spend enough time on it and do it every day you'd probably end up with a large thing. There was something in the news about a guy recently who hired a random guy off the internet to build tunnels for a SHTF bunker under his house. Fire or something happened and the guy died. Was a really strange story and the home owner went through some really big leaps to try to keep it secret. Makes me wonder how many people actually do stuff like that. I use to see stuff where it gets found a couple decades later that was all hand dug/carved and stuff I thought it was a really uncommon thing people do once in a while but it might not be that uncommon.

A siege? In the 19th Century?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Vicksburg

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Well fuck me sideways. I guess I was thinking more 'siege engine' siege or one of those medieval sieges that would last years.

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Mother Base

This reminds me of how PM William Gladstone would use what little time he had off chopping firewood because he found it relaxing.

NORAD HQ under Cheyenne Mountain, Wyoming is a modern bunker with a realistic goal.
If your enemies are able to send conventional air strikes with bunker penetration munitions the entire concept of a massive static bunker is useless.
But if you’re trying to protect command infrastructure from nuclear ICBMs you might be able to preserve some of your assets for a while.
The Cheyenne Mountain complex can survive near hits but probably not a direct hit with a ground detonated megaton size device. However when it was conceived and constructed the Soviets didn’t have that kind of accuracy with their missiles.

There are probably a few other hardened bunkers in the USA that aren’t public knowledge.

The amount Weather complex wasn’t declassified until the 90s iirc.

Apparently the NORAD hq isn’t in Cheyenne Mountain anymore.

Another bit of Cold War 1980s childhood nostalgia gone

Are you fucking shitting me? The absolute state of *your country* education.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sevastopol_(1854–55)

>want more space to store shit in house without getting even bigger mortgage payments
>adding on to side of house requires city/county approval most times
>can’t reasonably add more attic space or another floor to existing residential buildings
Can I just dig a new stairwell and room under the ground innabackyard?
>>watch them gas pipes

See also also the Siegfried line, which made very heavy use of anti tank obstacles on German border.

Both the Atlantic wall and Siegfried line were quickly defeated. Really makes u think.

yeah, they moved it in the 90's to make more space for the SGC.

I found Mt. Weather one day looking at school district imagery for work. Told my team it was a bunker, then googled it and found out that a commercial flight crashed on top of the facility in the 60s and it became public knowledge. They all look the same from sat imagery, once you know what to look for

Seige of Mobile then

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Leningrad
Theres this infamous example from WWII

The germans in ww1 had to take multiple french forts.

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Was about to post this. Fortresses are a meme in this age, mobility is EVERYTHING

obligatory

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sarajevo

Fortresses are a meme in this age but mobility as a concept isn't much more useful. A small lot with a shitty little house where your neighbors at least know you, you pay rent/taxes/mortgage on, and don't get the police called to your property at, will be a lot easier to 'hold' during times of strife than some looming sprawling defensible position / tower. Ask people who experienced the mortgage crises or the following economy.

Your best bet for real life fortifications would be something like just using masonry over lumber, having tactically placed earthworks and planters, well placed bookshelves (that can stop bullets) inside the home, and of course things like reinforced doors and windows, maybe a fence with dogs and motion lights and cameras. Beyond that...Prolonged violent attacks are not likely. You want the people who sit in offices and have good phone voices and official looking letter heads to be on your side when shits gets hairy, that matters most.

...and when it comes to mobility, I'd say the best modern way to be 'mobile' is to have a skill-set that allows you to get a job in other parts of the country and enough savings to evacuate your state and move 1000 miles and start over again with little notice.

obligatory

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I reckon filling 4" lay-flat tubing with sand and stacking it inside a stud wall (adding fixing band vertically as needed) would go a long way to making internal walls more useful. Also pretty good soundproofing as a side benefit.

Turns out those large dragons teeth make good cover for infantry creeping up to the bunker.

I was talking about warfare. As an individual, your best bet is always having a group of skilled, capable and loyal family and friends to rely on. Groups > individuals, always

Fuck you, disgusrug elf, diggig holes and tunnels are great.

Yeah but you still need building permits to dig lower. I can understand a root cellar or whatever. So before I mentioned a guy in the news nbcwashington.com/news/local/Man-Arrested-in-Fire-Death-Bethesda-Tunnel-Home-483753831.html
Only article I could find on it, apparently some guy got rich off crypto, bought a house turned into a hoarder. Hired a guy randomly off the internet blind folded him and made him put on head phones/played music, drove him around for a few hours then took him to his house. Payed him to start building tunnels down there.
Makes me curious how many people just do that themselves. I was trying to write a story about a town that had everything connected by tunnels that a satanic cthulu type cult used to move around doing weird stuff all over the town and the few people not in on it just found out about it. I just thought it was some weird thing that wouldn't make any sense so I stopped writing about it. Apparently it's not that weird for people to make tunnels and stuff like that though.

> Find Water Tower
> Get friends to drink Water with
> Now its a whatever you want it to be tower.

None of these are forts, you fuckers.

the town I work in had a huge underground tunnel network that was put in in the 1800s. The businesses had storefronts down there and everything. In winter, instead of fighting the snow and the cold you could walk the town underground. They finally filled in the last of it when they redid all the roads and sewer lines in downtown about 15-20 years back.

*my country* teaches us the difference between a fortification and a city.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Željava_Air_Base

This place is one of my favorite bunker systems in history.
>role of the facility was to establish, integrate, and coordinate a nationwide early warning radar network in SFRJ akin to NORAD
>built to sustain a direct hit from a 20-kiloton nuclear bomb
>contained underground tunnels housing two full fighter squadrons, one reconnaissance squadron, and associated maintenance facilities.
>ran a total length of 3.5 kilometers, and the bunker had four entrances protected by 100-ton pressurized doors, three of which were customized for use by fixed-wing aircraft
>included an underground water source, power generators, crew quarters, and other strategic military facilities. It also housed a mess hall that could feed 1,000 people simultaneously, along with enough food, fuel, and arms to last 30 days without resupply

Wish Yugoslavia didn’t collapse, their military was so damn cool

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Here’s a pic of the tunnels with MiG-21s inside

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>Wars are expensive
It costs money and supplies to maintain an army. You're burning money just by maintaining your army through the siege.
>Wars have objectives
Each day and man you spend sieging a fort is a day/man you're not spending attacking/defending something else potentially more important.
>The enemy is going to do something about it
They attack something of yours while you're busy, or maybe attack you at the fort itself.

Also forts can last for a year or more, you don't besiege something unless it's strategically important.

generally speaking a besieging force has supply problems of its own since you necessarily need to bring more dudes than the garrison has

I like your style

I've never understood why they didn't just bypass forts. Lets those 20 guys sit in their castle and be Charles In Charge of all their battlements, maybe leave 50 guys to stop them sortieing out and go on to do what you want to do.
It's not like you had a huge suppy line to protect, armies moistly lived off the land or carried their supplies in their baggage train.

Piss Tower

with a little fort like this, that might work, but a proper major castle might have a few hundred guys in the garrison, thats a sizable force you have to worry about coming out and kicking your ass.

>in this age
ebin

yeah tell that to Ghengis Khan LMAAAOOO xDDD

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If you skirt around them they can sent out faster riders to warn others. Not to mention they can attack your rear, supplies and reinforcements. Some found the best way was to toss decaying bodies over the walls, biological warfare and wait it out.

Do you know whats going on there currently and the ghost stories involving it?

The Serbs blew the base and mined the fuck out of it when the NATO-backed Bosnian and Croat advance was getting close. Illegals try to use it from time to time

If the water source is still good, it might be worth looking in claiming and fixing up for a Jow Forums party. I know a few mine guys with retired dogs.

Tangential but something cool I think very few people realize is that the Maya had siege towers.

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Burger here
I saw castles, martello towers, and ww2 pillboxes when I went to england. If you're into this kind of shit you need to get over there, it was such an awesome trip. Save your dollarydoos and make it happen.

dover castle keep. built in 1181

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martello tower in folkestone. folkestone is on the south east coastline and would be a perfect invasion point.

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I knew someone who lived in the area once. Youre half right. The illegals dont use it obviously, that was a proposal to use the area. Apparently the base also held a large stockpile of chemical agents and other nasty shit and when the serbs pulled out they basically flew everyone out, blasted the key infrastructure on the first two floors and left. Rumors of planes that are in disrepair still sealed up down there along with guns, ammo and maybe chemical weapons. The locals have no desire to go into a minefield to rope down the vent shafts so it stays the way it does.

Poor fucking plebs in *your country*, having only fought spear chucking natives for their pitifully short history, do not know that a city can indeed be fortified and most important ones had at the least a castle and a city wall.

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deal castle

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ahoy mateys

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If you didn't get up to Bamburgh and Alnwick you fucked up hard.

tfw no mountain hideout.

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Armies bypassed forts all the time, or shifted their attacks to another location. But by doing that, the fort is working since it's dissuading the enemy from attacking a strategic location.

>It's not like you had a huge suppy line to protect, armies moistly lived off the land or carried their supplies in their baggage train.
This can be highly variable. Some armies absolutely did have huge supply lines, even in ancient times. Not to mention if your baggage train becomes big enough it might as well be the same having a huge supply line.

>Lets those 20 guys sit in their castle and be Charles In Charge of all their battlements, maybe leave 50 guys to stop them sortieing out and go on to do what you want to do.
The defender will always have the advantage here. They know secret entrances/exits, they know the local terrain, they have support of the local people. It's always easier for them to sneak in/out than it is for attackers to keep them bottled up. And they can raid the attackers' camps while the attackers can't raid them back. Not to mention if a bigger enemy force does arrive, those 50 guys you left behind are fucked.

focusing on defense is a losing strategy.

you can't win a war on defense.

Never heard of them so I'm pretty sure I didn't. I was mainly in southern england. I was there for 2 weeks and had a rental car, so I got to a bunch of southern coast cities, stonehenge, canterbury cathedral, london (ughhh but had to do it), and took the ferry from dover to dunkirk. After seeing dunkkirk, we made a loop through the surrounding area hitting a couple larger cities in belgium, germany, and the netherlands. even though we were there for 2 weeks it wasnt enough time.

after googling where they are, it reminded me that not going to northern england and scotland are my biggest regrets. its just so far, IIRC it was a 9 hour drive to scotland or an 8 hour drive to germany. we made a choice between making the loop through europe and making the drive to scotland. my grandmother who lives in southeast england said we should just take the train to get around but being americans we couldn't imagine using dirty public transport. i ended up putting 1300 miles on my fiesta rental.

pic is a random pillbox that I saw in a field while driving down a singletrack road, if you haven't driven down a singletrack at 50mph you haven't lived. definitely more intense than driving down the 5 lane wide interstates that Im used to. after seeing it we found a spot to park and went back to it to go inside.

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>tunnel-digging as a hobby
>hey, did you hear that?
>oh well obviously we have a lot of echoing
>no, it sounded like a girl's voice
>yeah the uhh tunnels wil do that because of the uhh doppler effect

good coverup. never tell anyone about the children you bought with bitcoin that you keep in your basement

WHAT ABOUT THE CABLES user

Ignoring defense is how your shit gets rolled over the second your opponent realizes your mistake.

The trick is to be just obnoxious enough that even if they took the effort to take something from you it wouldn't be worth it by the time they got it.

NUT

>tfw want to win the lottery and build giant castle on a huge mountain ranch.

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Can someone post the stuff they have on Malta?

Also can someone post some turn of the century forts, kinda like the ones at Verdun?

Picture is of Aizu Castle during Boshin War

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Fuck that, dude. You have to have a huge fleet. A major sea-power to rival any other, for those castles to be safe. That shit looks like a prison.

I'd like too see a ship of the line pen those thick stone walls with fucking cannon.

Theres a story I heard a while ago about some Napoleonic era brits that left a handful of marines gave them some rations ammo and other supplies, dumped them on a uninhabited Caribbean island and harassed local french ships for some while. I'll see if I can find the video, its pretty cool.

youtube.com/watch?v=xarBo3rVdhg

here it is
'HMS Diamond Rock'

add a garage to that and i will move in tomorrow

you can, to a degree. many systems that protect ships from missile attack will be as effective, if not moreso, on a static fortification.

the key is deciding what the purpose of your bunker/fort has to be

say you want a fort so you can be a post-apocalyptic warlord, you're going to have to trade off living comfort for safety, but since the chances that you will be attacked with modern missiles or sustained attacks by a real military, a modern interpretation of a star-fort with a watchtower and a few homemade mortars will do just fine

now say you want a fort that will stand up to a modern military, you're essentially fucked, even excluding nukes you best defense will be secrecy, because we live in an age where missiles van pierce several metres of reinforced concrete and still ruin your afternoon.

>a stolen M48 used a command center
Holy shit its XCOM

>he doesn't remember unnaground generals

>its just so far
but dude lmao a tiny island
texas
etc