US Army officially moving to 6.8mm "in the near future"

nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2018/10/29/army-serious-about-fielding-6-8-caliber-round

>ridiculous recoil
Maybe if you've been raised on a steady diet of tofu and onions.

M855A1 was a stopgap .

What the fuck do you even mean? You retarded monkey. Do you not know what heavier bullets are?

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As dumb as the F-35. If it aint broke, don't fix it. Just some defense contractors lobbying to get more money. The 5.56 works just fine. Its a wonderful round. There is no round that has no recoil, top notch accuracy, lightweight and kills anything it hits. It doesn't exist. 5.56 NATO is wonderful. They would also have to get all of NATO to transfer over or we would have to change NATO.

>wants a small light caliber going fast
>lets bog it down with the heaviest bullet we can find

Links?

>There's 3 other threads on this OP.
o
There weren't any up earlier, thought I'd bring it up.

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>>Bigger slower projectile
so more accurate at long range and more energy, seems like exactly what they want.

Well they people in the Army running R&D are FUCKING MORONS. The army camies failed EVERY SINGLE test. but they want 1 universal pattern so they said "we will go with ACU". So in my mind if the Army developed it it is more than likely garbage.

2017
>GUISE
>LEZ GIV ALL DA SOLDIERS 7.62 NATO CHAMBERED RAIFU'S AGAIN
>SERIOUS DIS TYME
Top brass and budgetary people laugh their asses off

2018
>GUISE
>LEZ GIV ALL DA SOLDIERS 6.8
>SERIOUS DIS TYME
....

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I mean your "complaints" aren't inherent problems so much as they are simply reasons you don't like it. Such as "slower heavier bullet". Like, ya man that's generally how it always works. The objective is not and never was "what can we replace 5.56 with that IS 5.56?". There's no way to even know what the recoil is, either.

breakingdefense.com/2018/05/smart-rifles-for-foot-soldiers-army-ngsw-prototype-contracts-out-in-june/

found this article that talks about it. They also want to upgrade the picatinny rail system to where individual attachments dont need their own batteries. The DOD is full of fucking morons. I swear to god that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard.

>"At least as important as the physical projectile, however, is the electronic technology that ensures it’s on target. Picatinny is already famous for developing the standardized “Picatinny rail” that goes on firearms to accommodate a wide range of interchangeable accessories such as targeting scopes. More recently, NATO has agreed on a common standard (or STANAG) for how a rail can provide electrical power to the accessories attached. The next phase, which Picatinny is developing, is a standard protocol for data transfer."

For all the niggers in this thread. The Army want's the weight of the bullet to be around 120 to 130 grains but still go just as fast as 5.56 out of the barrel. This WILL result in having horrible recoil. As for this faggot.
And this faggot
Having a M855A1 style bullet for 5.56 but with the slightly bigger 75 grain bullets would still allow for very fast muzzle velocities similar to normal 55 grain and 62 grain bullets but with added energy on target and better stability. As for the Army wanting the round to be the "do everything round". We already had that, It was called 5.56 shot out of 20 inch M16's. But hey, at least the Army gets to spend money on something, so theirs that.

To add to post >"The holy grail here is to combine electronic gunsights with what’s called an electromechanical trigger, creating a personalized fire control system. A civilian example of this is TrackingPoint, where, when you pull the trigger, it doesn’t immediately, mechanically fire a shot. Instead, there’s a “smart” electronic component to the trigger that holds off on firing until the gunsight calculates you’re exactly on target."

Dumbest shit i have ever heard. People should get fucking fired for even suggesting that idea. How about you spend some more and just teach people how to aim. This is fucking stupid.

Just switch to a 75 or 77 grain otm round if they want better better energy.

>big numbers mean its better! t. us army procurement since at least the m14

It's fucking retarded for anything under 200m, i.e. 80% of infantry combat. IIRC MIlley actually wanted 7.62 first, indicating he drank the overmatch koolaid cooked up by a certain g11-hating HK shill.

>75 grain bullets would still allow for very fast muzzle velocities similar to normal 55 grain and 62 grain bullets

not possible with the caliber, would be grossly overpressure and blow up the rifle, m855a1 is already at near proof loadings and has blown up rifles.

>See bad guy at 100 Meters
>pull trigger
>nothing happens
>nothing happens
>nothing happens
>target disappears behind bushes
>can still see his silhouette
>pull trigger
>*ERROR CANNOT RECEIVE ACCURATE RANGE ESTIMATION---TURN OFF TO RESET OPTIC*
>get shot while fucking around with superduper sight
Honestly, having a built in auto correcting/adjusting compass within the scope would be much better than some auto aiming trash that has no use. Would rather be able to call out accurate compass headings than something that adjusts for range and windage for ranges that don't really need any of that. Just use the fucking markers in the scope.

If true that means surplus out the ass

>m855a1 is already at near proof loadings and has blown up rifles.
Correct....For carbine length gas systems. Switch back to rifle length gas systems with barrel lengths of 20 inches or 18 inches like Mk 12 SPR's and you will be fine.

breakingdefense.com/2018/05/lockheed-army-to-test-exoskeleton-in-december/

I found this link in the mentioned article. The fucking DOD.... Idiots... Exoskeletons... Fucking retards. We have literally allowed sci-fi movies to dictate our research objectives when it should be scientific analysis and reasoning.

> it should be scientific analysis and reasoning.

Operations research has its place...but it needs to stay in it. War is an art, not a science.

I just read an article that was linked in one of the other articles posted here. Apparently the Army is gonna step up training in basic for things like higher PT scores and more discipline like marching and boot shining. But are also dropping FUCKING LAND NAVIGATION AND GRENADE THROWING. I guess they are also upping hand to hand from 22 hours to 33 hours, but I'm sure it's gonna be bullshit. Like no Bayonet training or real world applications of hand to hand in a combat situation like assaulting an objective site or enemy position. But hey, what do I know. I just have multiple accounts throughout the history of modern war from WW I to the invasion of Iraq that show the necessity for troops to be able to kill with pointy sticks and their fists but whatever. The Army is always right. Don't question it, get back to shining those boots boot.

Never heard of m855a1 blowing up a rifle.

The problem with dropping bayonet training is that that training was great for getting recruits to get in touch with their inner aggression. it was not out of practicality in warfare. The purpose of the training was strictly psychological

100 bucks says this will go literally nowhere like the other billion times the army has tried to replace the M4/5.56

Its a money racket

>The purpose of the training was strictly psychological
>it was not out of practicality in warfare

>Be rifleanon during a platoon wide assault
>other squads are providing a base of fire
>Your squad will perform the assault on an enemy position
>rip and tear.mp3
>you and your squad pushes up to grenade range
>lobs a couple of grenades
>Boom......Boom "OH SHIT NEGROS HERE WE FUCKING GO!"
>begin clearing through enemy position
>friendlies and enemies get mixed in with one another
>see bad guy before you, small, virgin, probably a Bernie supporter
>Yer done m8
>raise super high tech 6.8mm rifle up and fire
>couple of bullets hit him, killing him, while the other bullets miss and sail directly into your fuck budd-battle buddy
>Oh shit
>SAK NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM
>what the fuck?
>Jackie Chan charges you for the glory of satan, screaming at your fucking life
>raise weapon to begin to shoot
>Jackie Chans brother Ho Chi Mixalot grabs your weapon and gets locked up with you
>I KILL YOU GI I KILL YOU!
>Fell a sharp burning pain in your gut, you've been bayoneted by non other than Jackie Chan
>heh, nothin personnel GI *in Chinese*
>collapse to the ground, life fading from you
>in a last ditch effort for eternal glory, you pick up your weapon and try to shoot the Chanster in his back
>Just before you pull the trigger, non other than Wesley Snipes stands before you
>Yeah nah nigga
>he raises his nyet rifle is fine AKM up into the air and drives it down into your head
>your head literally explodes with brain matter shooting out everywhere

If only you were taught how to fight, what could've been...

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I doubt it desu, there will be something that get's in it's way and they'll probably have a RFP for a 6.5mm to 6.8mm round

>Links?
Google "6.8 HVAP". There used to be Prototype Opportunity Notice for the ammo, but it's not available any more for me. So it's all rumor mill at this point.

If true, it's fucking stupid. 75,000-100,000 PSI so they can pierce level 4 plate out to 600m.

>Army moves to 6.8 because they want a harder-hitting cartridge
>in 30 years they move to a smaller-caliber cartridge because they want soldiers to shoot more accurately and carry more ammo

rinse and repeat

I've found the solution:
Nevuh been done befoh

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It's basic. Every recruit does basic. Most recruits aren't going to ever fight or navigate. You've got to prioritize. You teach the mechanic and the cook to shoot a rifle to defend themselves in a pinch, that's enough. You're never going to trust a guy with grenades after three years of dishwashing anyway, no matter what they did in basic.

OR switch to a larger caliber which performs better out of shorter barrels and get better terminal ballistics than 5.56 out of a 20" barrel with only a moderate increase in recoil. Do you know nothing about ballistics? Do you even shoot guns? Have you ever shot anything bigger than a .22?

>ping
aight i'm down.

It is never going to happen. The US military is going to continue using 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO until we have laser guns.

>moderate increase in recoil
If they are really planning on moving the rumored ~125 grain projectile at 3300-3500 FPS then you are going to get more than a moderate increase in recoil. That's double the weight and a higher muzzle velocity than what we use now.

This is no longer intermediate cartridge territory, this is something akin to .270 WSM but doing it out of a 16" barrel instead of 24".

>run out of batteries
>gun is useless

just like how they were gonna have jetpacks and nuclear powered tanks, right?

Jesus Christ, the fudds who hated the 5.56 back in the 60s played the long game here...
Also:
>Army moves to 6.8 because they want a harder-hitting cartridge
>Mk262 Mod 1 exists
It'd be much fucking cheaper to just shell out a few more shekels per round than to waste trillions on a heavy round with shitty recoil and ballistics.

ah yes, because conventional guns don't have anything to run out of...

That was pretty autistic, user

That sounds like something secret agent Cody Banks would say....

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>army ordnance
>sensible decisions

They said same velocity, which is about 2700 fps out of a 14.5" barrel. If they want 3300-3900, it won't be out of any rifle they currently have. Recoil would be comparable to that of 6.5 creedmoor, which is marketed for being a lightly recoiling option for rifle shooting. 5.56 has barely any felt recoil as it is.

>shitty recoil and ballistics
Baseless vitriol

I went through basic just last year and we were taught bayonet fighting. Not with actual bayonets, but we still learned the moves.

Sliding to the left and sliding to the right and taking it back now ya'll is not proper bayonet training.

the fuck it isn't

It's just a jump to the left, and then a step to the right.

What actual accounts do you have that shows it's important in modern warfare? WW1-korea makes sense, but anything after I'm not so sure

that's not what we were taught all, we learned thrusting to the chest, thrusting to the face, slashing, buttstroking, and muzzle thumping. Honestly it was a lot of fun, comboing all those together while advancing made me feel like I was in Korea tearing through gooks.

>what good is basic navigation and use of handheld explosives which hamburger anyone inside of 30 feet
nigger

I was referring specifically to hand to hand/bayonet training. The rest of it I agree completely

What an absolute dumpster fire of an article.
The SME they quoted is a lofty fucking retard.
>goes faster than all bullets today
>penetrates all armor ever
>10% lighter
>bigger

ah, I see
probably better to learn it than not, especially hand to hand - the whole point is to get back to your rifle anyway

you do know that tofu is just processed basedbeans right

You know he was talking about bayonets.

Anyway, grenades belong in infantry training, not basic, and land navigation is for infantry and vehicle crews.

I do think grenade training for everyone creates an important incentive not to recruit anyone you wouldn't trust with a grenade, but other than that, it's a poor allocation of resources, and they've been recruiting people who shouldn't be trusted with grenades for a while now...

>the whole point is to get back to your rifle anyway
Bayonets are mostly used now only when you run out of ammo.

>Adding another way for the gun to completely fail

DOD brass detected

I'd just assumed they'd have a longer barrel on the NGSAW and shorter barrels on the NGSAR.

There's a reason .300 Blackout and Mk262 Mod 1 got adopted and 6.8 SPC didn't.

Anything that involves assaulting. In fact, even field manuals up to 2003 invasion where field manuals switched emphasis to COIN included the importance of bayonets. To the point where you as a soldier are suppose to fix your bayonet before every single assault from your assaulting position. The point being, assaulting objective sites and enemy positions can get contested, as in. Friendlies and enemies get mixed with one another, making shooting pretty hazardous to friendlies. Also due to the situation of assaulting a position usually being pretty kinetic, i.e. all combat that happens at and within frag throwing range of 32 to 35 meters gets reduced to call of duty tier bat shit crazy shit. Multiple enemies can jump you at once and overpower you, fighting in tight places can put you in awkward positions to the point where an enemy can grab your weapon like in buildings or in trenches. You can simply get overburdened by the shear number of enemies to the point where it could become likely that you get caught off guard while reloading.

In short, it's nice to make your boom boom whacking stick into a pointy stick sometimes.

Read that as "NiG-SAW and NiG-SAR.

has such a drastic slant towards COIN resulted in a drop in critical knowledge for conventional warfare, or is COIN just a branch of that pool of knowledge?

COIN has decimated our warfighting capabilities to severe autism levels that was once thought to be impossible to reach.
>No more motor transport platoons/companies driving the infantry. Now the infantry drive themselves in MRAP's
>conducting mounted operations in MOUT and confined spaces
>Over emphasis on Hearts and Minds. View it as the primary victory condition similar to kill death ratios in Nam instead of looking at it as just another tactic to win over some villages
>Combat logistics and combat resupply no longer exist
>Platoons are viewed as independent units when in reality, companies are suppose to be the smallest because they have actual organic logistics
>Over reliance on technology, especially communication and C2 equipment like radios and GPS. Units literally can not operate without radios because nobody trains to use messengers or signals anymore
>And many other things

They are killing fucking elk, they are trying to defeat advanced body armor. Speed is the easiest way to do that.
Heavier recoil has proven time and again to be the biggest impediment to accurate shooting, in police and military orgs. So how is going to a higher recoil round not going to decrease accuracy?

so we're fucked.
great.
isn't there also a massive overstretching of air assets (particularly rotary) because of everyone relying on it?

It's not 6.8 spc

>ridiculous recoil
manlet detected

Speed you say?
>same velocity
>better sectional density
I'd say they were right on the money

Shit, my bad.

>.30-06
>.308
>.223
>back up to .26 cal

If they really want to mess with some heads, they should adopt 7.62x39.

>shooting a 120-130 grain bullet
>at 3000FPS
>out of a 14.5-16 inch barrel
>Come on user, don't be a bitch. It's just a little more recoil

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It is just alittle more recoil. It's less than .308 by a significant margin, even. It blows me away how much people that claim to be gun enthusiasts can complain about what is objectively light recoil

>75,000-100,000 PSI
Neat. I can't wait to see what happens to these guns, running at or near the ultimate tensile strength of common barrel steel, when a bunch of grunts hike them around in a desert.

>It's less than .308

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They should just standardize on .50 BMG for everything. It does everything they want to do, so why settle for less? Just stop missing and wasting bullets.

>tfw This becomes reality

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It's pretty simple.math my dude. Even at 3100 fps a 120gr projectile has 2560 ft•lbs at the muzzle. Low end of .308 is 2770ish and climbs fast. So in a best (worst) case scenario, it recoils significantly lighter than the lightest recoiling .308.

This but unironically. Get a good dual optic with 10x magnification and give the rifles an AA-12 recoil mitigation system so they can make lighter .50 BMG rifles without knocking the dudes over.

Yeah, but it's reaching those speeds out of a short rifle barrel. It's not a 22 inch or 24 inch. It's a 14 or 16 inch barrel. That's some fast fucking acceleration for a 120-130 grain bullet.

That doesn't have a significant impact on recoil by comparison. Like, at all

you're conflating barrel length with mass of the weapon, which is not accurate

Bullet momentum's more relevant than kinetic energy to recoil. Put a heavier bullet in front of the same charge of powder, and it kicks harder.

I used the same charge weight as a standard .308 and gave the weapon weight ten pounds.

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>.308 is not known for controllable hits on full retard, except in stationary medium machine guns.
>5.56mm on the other hand is known to be exceptionally easy to control from a carbine, shooting offhand
>only shots that connect count, regardless if the opponent is wearing body armor or not.

Pic related is what a recoil calculator comes up with in terms of recoil of this wonder 6.8 vs .308 out of a 16" barrel, in a gun of the same weight. It's just about the same. Note: powder weight for the 6.8 is a guess, .308 is real world.
This 6.8 might actually have more recoil impulse depending on acceleration curve of the bullet. Even 9mm handloads can have drastically different recoil characteristics depending on powder used.

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>picking that when 6.5 grendel exists
that's my opinion

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Why would you use the same charge weight as .308? That's completely irrelevant

How are you gonna propel a 130 grain projectile at a velocity of 3000 FPS using charge weights similar to 5.56?