Effectiveness of 30 carbine?

I've heard people say that up to 100m it's equivalent to a 357 mag at point blank range and others say they shot a dog three times in the chest and it just ran off. Can any of you guys point towards one way or the other? Pic related.

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It worked in the Pacific and overlord.

It's substantially more powerful (energy, velocity) than a .357, as you would expect from something fired out of a longarm.

It's basically a worse version of 7.62x39.

>say they shot a dog three times in the chest and it just ran off.

Some dudes in the Korean War missed what they were aiming at and blamed it on the cartridge since it wasn't a FULL POWER THIRTY OUGHT SIX. This turned into ".30 Carbine can't kill anything".

It's a .3 inch 110 grain projectile traveling at like 2000 fps. Sure, it's no full sized rifle cartridge but it's not really lacking either.

m2 full auto paratrooper with 30 round mags or an uzi

which would you pick user?

The one that isn't 8lbs

I'll just say there's a reason .30 cal carbine fell out of favor. There's still plenty of older rounds and designs in use today, but .30 cal doesn't do anything particularly well. It was an early experiment in intermediate cartridges that didn't really create the results they were looking for

>I've heard people say that up to 100m it's equivalent to a 357 mag at point blank range
It uses a slightly to moderately lighter projectile at moderately higher speeds for a moderate increase in energy. Something like 10-20% if we're comparing top of the line .357 out of a 6" bbl to common .30 carbine loadings. More importantly perhaps, it gets a bit over 2000fps with many loadings which means that expanding/fragmenting rounds can reliably cause damage from TSC that's larger than the projectile itself at closer ranges. So with proper load selection it is a notable bit more powerful than the .357 magnum out of a handgun.
>others say they shot a dog three times in the chest and it just ran off.
There's a lot of fuddlore surrounding the cartridge, it was really meant more as a closer range weapon and PDW for POGs than a main infantry weapon. Because of this it was kinda crappy at longer ranges and tended to be used by people with crappier training for that sort of thing. The vast majority of stories about it "not being able to penetrate a winter coat" and that sort of thing are really attributed to people missing by most folks these days but the urban legends still bias some people against the cartridge. That being said it is also true that with typical GI loadings(ball ammo) the rounds wouldn't fragment, expand, or necessarily even yaw. This means it would simply be producing uncomplicated sub caliber holes on targets identical to what one would expect of a 30 caliber handgun round, a phenomena called icepicking.

I'd heard it was due to the Chinese being hopped up on opium, but since you mention it I can see that too. What's the largest game you'd feel comfortable using it on (including mag dumping)? Also, can you comment on how accurate an m1 carbine would be on average out to 50m?

What's the largest game you'd feel comfortable using it on, including mag dumping?

If I could get a full auto for less than a good car and without the federal govt breathing down my neck then I probably wouldn't get an m2.

If I was looking for a compact rifle would 30 cal be worth it though? The m1 paratrooper seems ideal for that role, especially considering I would like it in the woods and old little wooden guns aren't as spooky to other people as opposed to if I had something like a ar pistol in 300 blackout.

Interesting info, thanks. Do you think modern day hollow points would be effective enough to make the caliber at least somewhat viable today?

Right, and if you were a starved Asian kid you'd be a pretty small target

Injected Heroin isnt close to powerful enough to shrug off rifle wounds let alone vaporised Opium. PCP is probably the only substance that will do that.

Regardless, we can agree other mitigating factors were involved than "weak round"

You'd probably have a hard time getting the same reliability with hollow points, they're kind of finicky even with ball. Need good mags and springs.

>FOOOOL POWER TERDY ODD SIGS

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Have you heard of anyone pulling it off well? I'm not looking for a project gun, but if I could get it running smoothly without breaking the bank then I'd be willing to put effort into it.

The para stocks suck, but even a full-stock M1 carbine is pretty amazingly handy and compact. If you're just looking for an M1 carbine and don't care about history, there are Inland carbines with collapsible (forward-back) wire stocks that are significantly better than the AK underfolders and reasonably compact.

As for hollow points, I don't know of any brands that have those, and given the M1 carbine's historical reliability issues (largely related to flimsy mags), I have a feeling they probably wouldn't work too well.

Fortunately, 15 to 30 rounds of .30 carbine will kill things pretty dead even if you don't have hollow points.

My IBM carbine loves soft point rounds just fine. I wouldn't want to shoot a heavy bodied northern white tail with one (it'd kill it just fine but it'd be marginal in terms of humane and ethnical game taking, but I wouldn't hesitate with small bodied Texas deer.

I have an early universal carbine. Works perfectly, never had an issue. I haven't shot anything living with it because I find it impractical to hunt with

Suck how bad? I was thinking auto ordnance since I don't care about historical value, heard inland uses AO receivers, and aren't really any better.

I wouldn't use it for hunting, but more for a simple truck gun or something easy to bring camping. Good to know about the hollow points though.

Why impractical? And about how much have you shot it?

I shoot it every month. Probably put at least 2000 rounds into it. I find it impractical because I hunt rifles and shotguns synthetic stocks due to the amount of multiflora rose in my area.

Including magdumping? Black bear, maybe, and that's tentative. .30 carbine is great for small sized deer and people within 200 yards. I'd rather have .308 though. And I'd be surprised if my M1 couldn't do 2 inch groups off a rest at 50 yards. They're fine guns in a fine cartridge. Haven't aged well, but that's okay.

And a note on reliability for you, you'll have to replace the recoil spring. Mine runs like a champ with 15 rounders now.

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Including magdumping, brown bear, single shot, whitetail deer.

Good stuff, do you reload? Pretty sure they're at about 50 cents a round.

I have heard about the recoil spring. Would that be the case for new manufacture as well?

You really think Brown Bear?

No, new production will have fine recoil springs. But probably shit everything else. Only good new production stuff is Fulton armory. Also, sgammo has .30 CPR brass case stuff.

>take pic related to ccw class
>defensive training, in home cover behind bed.
>punch paper time comes up, at sheriff's department range.
>first 2 shots, everyone comes to see wtf it is
>instructor "if you shoot that over a mattress you are going to burn your fucking house down"

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Best little truck gun. Light, small, accurate, and the ammo isn't 5.56

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>Do you think modern day hollow points would be effective enough to make the caliber at least somewhat viable today?
>responding poster
It'd certainly be "viable" in the defensive sense with proper ammo selection but it's kind of a head scratcher of a choice. Really only makes sense if you inherited a .30 carbine firearm that's reliable or are under some other restriction limiting you to the caliber. When it comes to buying a gun for defensive use there are simply more practical choices caliber and platform wise.

Didn't kill the dog? No wonder why the ATF never used them.

this - inbetween the wars, they rebuilt a lot of the carbines and in the process changed the zeroing procedure. But the soldiers issued these weapons were not instructed according to the new manual of arms, but to the old ones, leading the weapons to be improperly zeroed.

a budget AR or a Mini-14 costs about 2/3rds the price of an actually decent M1 carbine

More or less what i was getting at. Superior contemporary choices are readily available for cheaper.

Real good at up to 100 yards, starts getting kind of slow (but not awful), at 200 yards, and at 300 yards you're WELL past your effective range, and precision isn't amazing here.
I seriously doubt a salvo in the chest of any medium sized dogs would fail to stop it.

This is basically the issue.
The M1 Carbine is pretty much a PDW like the P90, something that's more powerful than a pistol, and far easier to use, but without the weight of a full-sized M1 Garand rifle.
For this purpose, it did a great job, nobody complained about it in WW2.

In Korea, they decided to upgrade it for 30rd mags and with a fire-selector, the M2 Carbine, to make it more practical, but people also started trying to use them like they would issued M1 Rifles, which it is just not suited for.
Frequently, it was also used in full-auto at long range, the M2 Carbine being a bit jumpy in full-auto, it's actually pretty hard to make good hits at long ranges, and you're already struggling with the limited practical range of the .30 Carbine cartridge.
For CQB, and with short bursts, it could be a VERY good weapon (especially if you trained with it to get a good feel for handling bursts), but if you're shooting long bursts at long ranges, not only are your targets difficult, but the hits you do make aren't going to be very strong.

It's all a bit like saying a short sword is bad because it doesn't have the reach of a spear. Application is key, and in Korea this weapon was misapplied.

What the fuck are you talking about? It wasn't an experiment in making an intermediate cartridge like for an assault rifle, because it wasn't intended as a normal infantry combat rifle, it was meant for personnel who might find themselves getting attacked, and needed something better than a pistol.

The cartridge was developed as a small rifle cartridge, for a light defensive carbine, to defend crew who weren't frontline infantry, such as cooks, drivers and artillery crews.
For this intended purpose, it performed excellently.
There was NEVER any intent for this be an assault rifle in any capacity, it was at best just used for CQB at times, because it does happen to be a good performer at short ranges.

Don't be fucking retarded.

.30 Carbine would be suitable for deer, black bear, probably hogs (maaaybe not the larger ones). Basically anything roughly medium sized, assuming you don't outrange yourself, and you pick good ammo.
At 50m it should do fine, I'll recommend trying to stay below 150yds, 100yds ideally, to get the best mileage out of the thing, both in precision and in velocity.

They'll work. Mind that some repros are pretty shitty.
A Mini-14 is cheaper, more reliable, more powerful, further reaching, and more precise, available in .300BLK as well, but it WON'T be nearly as light, compact and handy as the M1 Carbine.
The M1 really is very nice for how easy it is to just handle and carry around.

>the M1 carbine's historical reliability issues (largely related to flimsy mags)
A lot of that comes from using M2 magazines with the M1 magazine catch.

A loaded 30 round magazine is obviously heavier than a loaded 15 round magazine, and it was found that adding another lug to the 30 round magazine, and making a new magazine catch which would support the magazine on that lug, helped a lot with reliability.

That said, there's a lot of shoddy aftermarket mags out there.

I would shit my fucking pants magdumping an M1 Carbine on a brown bear.
I mean I really would not trust it for that.

The .30 Carbine Blackhawk is fucking amazing.
I mean the cartridge really isn't fantastic for short barrels like those, that humongous fireball really screams about how much velocity you miss out on, but at the same time, what a goddamn BANG!

Did you qualify?

I dunno, my grandad shot an arab in algeria with it from 400m away, hit him in the calf.

Also cold and altitude influencing ballistics.

People have killed griz with 9mm, hell some Indian killed a record griz with a 22 long, not a 22 long rifle, 22 long which is a lesser cartridge. And it was a single shot rifle.
A 30 carbine while far from ideal could kill pretty much any game animal.

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I reload, you can get much cheaper than 50 cents a round if you look/wait for sales.

Also, I can't tell if you are, but don't consider mag dumping for hunting, it will ruin lots of meat, chances are your not going to be able to hold exclusively in the vitals esp if it starts to run which means you might gut shot it, and it's not going to be a very humane death.

Pretty sure you could have just looked it up instead of guessing.
ammoseek.com/ammo/30-carbine

5.56mm is good though.

That story only serves to illustrate the point that shot placement is critical.
To actually go out and expect a rifle in .22 Long to dust a grizzly, is just lunacy, because that's a freak incident, and that lady was the luckiest in the fucking world at that single moment.

You should pick something that is both practical for you to use and which would actually give you favorable odds.

This too.

Reminds me of some story I heard of some fucknuts who decided they were gonna hunt deer, having never hunted for shit in their lives.
They buy a used Marlin 60 or something, find a deer, then start just pelting it with .22, chasing the fucking thing and popping off rounds, until it eventually dies, presumably in terror and agony.
They apparently didn't see much problem in it, because "they ate like kings for weeks".

>2000fps
The full power military load is 1900fps from the m1 carbine. Most commercial loads are 1830-1850

Depends on the situation. For strictly CQC the uzi is superior, with its shorter barrel and OAL. The M2 would be superior as a general infantry carbine.

The .30 Carbine cartridge really isn't very great outside of CQB ranges.

Unless you're paying big money for one of 2 loads that have a softpoint that actually expands at .30carb muzzle velocity it's pretty trash inside cqb ranges too.