Why is .38 special the most cucked round ever?

/thread

Id get one just because I want to have guns in a wide assortment of cartridges. But I also have a hard time justifying buying any gun that uses the same cartridge as a gun I already own.

Even though this is a holdover from the black powder era, it’s kind of a feature in modern arms. The low pressure allows for really light weight revolvers, because the frame can be made from materials besides steel.

For instance the aluminum .38 lcr only weighs 13.5oz, while the steel 9mm lcr weighs 17.2. Nearly 4oz is a massive difference in a CCW piece. Hell thats the difference between a 16” govt profile barrel, and a 16” pencil barrel (which is also very noticeable). Point is it’s nearly as powerful as 9mm, with a very significant weight savings.

Also you load it in a suppressed 77/357 it’s almost Hollywood quiet.

They're fun to shoot in my gp100 if I'm being cheap

Because 38 special was developed over 120 years ago and originally loaded with black powder

years later it did get swapped to smokeless obviously but was never loaded with more than the same weight of black powder.

Strange I do the exact opposite. I won’t buy guns chambered for cartridges I don’t already own, without a very good reason.

>.22lr
>9mm
>.38/.357
>5.56mm
>7.62x39
>7.62x51 nato
>7.62x54r
>.410
>12ga

Which round should I adopt next Jow Forums?

I think the only time id be able to justify it would be if i was buying a rifle and pistol of the same caliber

A .38 only gun is cheaper

10mm, so you have a more powerful semi auto handgun

Yeah, which is also why you can get .38 guns that can handle +p+ and have them perform very well in a small package.

Go for .45 ACP. You can find that shit anywhere and it's about as expensive as, or a bit cheaper than, .38 Special. Having a big bore cartridge that is fairly cheap to shoot is so fun.

.30-06 or .308

Fucking poorfag.

. 300RUM
Do it faggot

Exactly this. The only way to get more speed with blackpowder was a higher volume of propellant, which is why people invented zany and long-ass cartridges like .45-110, but with modern, stonger brass casings (back in the day, centerfire casings were done like .22 rimfire casings are done today), and modern smokeless powder, you can load .45-70 to levels which would make the previously mentioned cartridge blush (until you get into the subject of making a modern, smokeless .45-110 Sexual Tyrannosaur, that is).

If you want to make use out of case capacity like that with modern powder, you're literally looking for .357 Magnum
Optionally soup it up a bit; +P .38 Special with a hollowpoint, has a pretty good track record. Not flawless, of course, but easily comparable with +P 9mm Luger hollowpoints and the like.

Because it was more powerful than .38 S&W, and .38 Colt, certainly more powerful than .32 S&W, even .32 S&W Long.
Also the things worked kind of fine for their era. Hell, they do still work.
Looking also at just competition and target shooting, .38 Special wadcutter loads made good and clean holes in paper targets, and had easy recoil, this choice was so popular in fact that Colt and Smith & Wesson (to name some), actually made special target variants of their popular semi-automatic handguns chambered for .38 Special wadcutters only.

Of course, some people also liked .32 S&W Long wadcutters, which would have even lighter recoil still.
Don't think it was so popular as to warrant anyone making automatics for those, though.

Attached: wadcutter 38.jpg (500x500, 65K)

45-70 nugga

7mm pin fire.

>10mm
Been looking into one for a while, but never jumped because I have a few .357s. I'd probably get a Glock 20, I'm waiting on Ruger to come out with a matching 10mm PC carbine first though.

>.45
.45s fine, but I hate the grip angle on 1911s.

>.30-06
I love the round, but there aren't many bolt rifles with irons anymore.

>.300rum
>200 gr (13 g) SP 3,119 ft/s (951 m/s) 4,321 ft⋅lbf
That is a glorious chambering if there ever was one. I'd been looking into .300wm, since I want something much more powerful than any of my current chamberings. I live in an area with plenty of shots beyond 600yds, so I could stretch its legs. Though I've really taken a liking to using 77gr mk262 when I need a laser.

38 special 1911s do exist.

Attached: Colt-M1911-Gold-Cup-National-Match-.38-Special-Mid-Range-7-thefirearmblog.com_.jpg (1024x1139, 917K)

kek wut? how does wanting variety of something make me a poorfag? If anything, its the opposite of a poorfag because i have to buy a different set of dies and bullets, and ammo for every single firearm i own.

I have an old as fuck charter arms undercover .38 and I love it.

Attached: Colt-M1911-Gold-Cup-National-Match-.38-Special-Mid-Range-4-rockislandauction.com_-1024x760.jpg (1024x760, 116K)

no one ever said it had to be a 1911. Theres other .45s out there.

Attached: Colt-M1911-Gold-Cup-National-Match-.38-Special-Mid-Range-9-ebay.com_-1024x543.jpg (1024x543, 131K)

Exactly. Made only for those wadcutters, typical roundnose and other stuff will not fit and feed with magazines.
Magazine capacity is also generally just 5 shots, since these were made for shooting competition.

Here's Smith & Wesson's .38 Special automatic.
S&W actually kept making these for quite a long time, until the specific machinery broke down and they decided it wasn't worth their investment to fix/replace it.
By this time, these were less popular however.

Attached: SW52.jpg (1006x716, 112K)

Yep. 38 only guns are trash. I can respect its use as a cheap training round for those with 357 magnum revolvers, but outside of that it's seriously lacking in power but still a unnecessarily large case, worst of both worlds. It's way less powerful than 9mm, 40 and 45 cuck it even more. Just overall a garbage cartridge.

People underestimate how popular .38 Special wadcutters were for competitive shooting in the 50s and 60s. Everyone, from the military to civilians, was in love with it. There was even a rimless version of the .38 Special wadcutter called .38 AMU that was made to be used in semi-autos before manufacturers could figure out how to make .38 Special wadcutter work in semi-autos.

Faggot.

Exactomundo, it was THE cartridge for handgun sports.

338 Norma in a 24" tactical format. Not benchrest build.

>pushing .30 cal tash tier
If you must get a magnum, or super mag, .270 and 7mm calibers will get you better trajectory, and 33-34 cal will give you insane energy and stopping potential.
.30 is just a compromise caliber that does neither well.

Or any other .357 rifle, really.
Marlin makes their new All Weather models with threaded muzzles.

Attached: Marlin Model 1894 CST.png (1200x450, 191K)

Factory rifles in all but the latest chamberings will have too slow of twists to stabilize the high performing new bullets out there.
Custom you could do 300 win or rum but you have to handload. They're economical calibers but even 300wm burns the lands kind of quick and you'll have to adjust you're load seating depth to compensate. 300rum would be worse.

We had a carbon fibre wrapped barrel .300RUM come into the shop to get some info engraved on the receiver, which is why it came to mind.

I wanted a fucking .357mag levergun so bad but now I already have a .30-30 and the .357s cost like $800. Shooting cheap .38spl out of it would be cool and it would be fun for deer but I feel more confident with the .30-30 for rabid coyotes or a potential black bear when I'm camping for 4 days on a huge expanse of nothing

Its very old and was originally designed to use black powder.

Buy a garand. They will only get more expensive. And then you can get a bolt action and reload fireball wildcats

Here are some options:
.45 ACP
10mm
.30-06
.45-70
.300 BLK
.30-30
.30 Carbine

.39 Special is comfy

>I love the round, but there aren't many bolt rifles with irons anymore.
Get a Grand Pinger, then.
Make sure you fit it with an aftermarket gasplug if you're shooting certain modern commercial ammo, however.

Attached: Garand-lead.jpg (1000x669, 184K)

45-70 Govt

Almost a hivemind. Do it faggot.

It performs far better in snub noses than most 9mm. Paul did a video on this recently. It makes sense for super small snub revolvers. Or just cheap 357 plinking.

A .357 Magnum rifle would still cut it for deer, coyote, and black bear, however .30-30 would obviously work even better.
One option is to look for a Rossi in .357 Magnum, if you're willing to do some work on them on your own, you can polish away the grittiness of the action, and doing a couple of other small things, they can become quite decent.
youtube.com/watch?v=M4BJes4tPs4
youtube.com/watch?v=zVUb6vybexw

They haven't been imported for a while though, so you might have to look around, but they're relatively cheap rifles.
Also if you're gonna handload .38 Special for a .357 Magnum gun, I'm going to suggest you use .357 casings to load for .38 pressures, as you'll get the same effect, but you'll avoid that small ring buildup in your chamber.

Attached: 1.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg (800x1084, 379K)

The only Gov't you need, as they say.

>Paul
I honestly thought he was a forced meme for a while, but watching his videos recently, he's very eloquent, methodical, and good at conveying his thoughts and ideas.

He makes me think a bit of Nutn, except not autistic, and being able to convey his positions and ideas in like a quarter of the time.

>Make sure you fit it with an aftermarket gasplug if you're shooting certain modern commercial ammo, however.
I made my ammo the way ole man Garand would have wanted it.
Snake oil, is still snake oil.
We purists prefer to kind our Garands in fighting order, and not adding crap that may or may not damage the piece of history we own.
Not for my Grand, which will never see commercial ammo, Ive taken rounds apart and made them work in my rifle.
There is no reason why you cant make your own vs buying incorrect ammo.

>We purists prefer to kind our Garands in fighting order, and not adding crap that may or may not damage the piece of history we own.
There's plugs which will adjust themselves automatically, venting excess pressure to make sure the oprod doesn't travel faster than it should.
With M2 Ball it will make no difference, but with new ammo it will make sure the rifle will not beat itself to death.

>snake oil
It LITERALLY fills an actual function.

>hard time justifying buying any gun that uses the same cartridge as a gun I already own.
You think like a poor person hens
>poorfag

>hens
You type like a poor. Are you a nigger or just trailer trash?

>Seriously, it has almost twice the case capacity of 9mm and yet falls behind drastically in power. How is this possible?

Because if it were any more powerful, then it would no longer be .38 Special; that's the standard. If it bothers you, then go load a .38 to the brim with powder and petition SAAMI to list your new standard for .38 ASS DOZER, which would have drastically more power than 9mm Para. Then hang yourself because you've just invented .357 Magnum.

But I need at least dubs to buy a gun entirely on impulse

38 special is a new shooter, target and beginners hand-loading round
38 special +P is adequate for human self defense. Nothing more than adequate.
357 magnum is the beginning of real power. Use it wisely.

Don't go down the .300 Win Mag rabbit hole.

kek
My Sig-Hammerli P240 for 2700 competition disagrees with you

.357 Magnum makes a good light rifle cartridge too. Easy recoil and all that extra barrel really gives you some good power.

One of my favorite guns to shoot is my 686 with .38s

I find it has just the right amount of boom for me for a really satisfying session, that I usually finish with some .357.

When I got my first 9mm I was quite surprised at how snappy it was, moving from .38

I have a .357 levergun that shoots pretty good groups despite the sights needing to be adjusted to bring it to the left a bit (which I keep putting off doing).

When I shoot .38 out of it, the shots end up quite a fair bit low - is this to be expected from a rifle made for .357?

Attached: thonk.png (225x225, 4K)

Yes, the .38 will be slower than the .357, so some drop should be expected at range. Unless you mean you're getting a noticeable or dramatic drop at close ranges, in which case I would say that's just your rifle.

Mind also to clean the chamber if you shoot a lot of .38s, as a small ring of carbon and possibly lead can form at the very front end of the chamber, if this builds up enough it can make it tough to chamber .357s until you clean it out. This can also apply to revolvers.

What's your rifle?

Chiappa 1892, shooting at around 25 yards, which to me seems quite short range. 357 at that range is at the right height, but just to the right - pic related. I've not really shot this rifle much (pic is from August!) so I can always stand to improve, hence the retarded 10th shot that ruins it.

I don't have any photos of shooting with .38, but it groups down and the same amount to the right, not even on that replacement center, we are talking a foot lower than the 357 shots, maybe more, but a decent group.

I wouldn't mind but I got it because I was told it would shoot .38 not problem, and yes I keep it pretty clean.

Attached: 20180808_121756.jpg (1089x1452, 835K)

i dont get how a cartridge with more powder does better in a snub nose than one that has less

I guess maybe sight it in for .357, mark that position with nail polish, and then sight it in for .38, then mark that position with nail polish as well.
I think it's just your barrel.

How's your Chiappa working out? I hear very mixed things about their products. Any grit or excess stiffness to the action?

If this alone isn't enough to make you love the .38 I dunno what to say.

That said, I'd be lying if I wasn't lusting after the Magnum version. I know it was described in company literature but I don't know if it was ever made or not.

Attached: MTR-8.jpg (1000x667, 148K)

What's not to love about 300wm? It's pretty awesome: fantastic point-blank-zero, effective to far longer ranges than most people's skills can keep up with, ammo is widely available. It's great for handloading too: uses common powders, and you can use any 30 cal rifle bullet. The recoil is heavier than 308 and 30-06 but it's manageable to most shooters unless you have a super lightweight rifle.

The amount of powder is only one variable. The other two are the design pressure of the case and the type of powder used. The pressure is really the most important factor since that's what restricts everything else. It's the safety limit. You can use whatever powder, whatever amount of powder, etc, so long as you never exceed the design pressure.

9mm is 35,000 psi spec.
.38 spl is 17,000 psi.

for comparison:
.38 +P around 20,000
.38 +P+ is about 22,000
.357 magnum is 35,000 psi

.38 special in semi-wadcutter is one of the most deadliest self defense rounds you can carry. The FBI used to use this as their standard load.

Neither of those things are true.

A poor person would have no trouble justifying throwing money away on something thats very similar to what they already have. Thats why theyre poor. Individuals that have earned their wealth tend to be a lot more stingy with their money and how its spent.

>Slow moving
>Pushes into you creating a long a broad wide channel

Not bad! I really like the finish on it, the quality is pretty good, I haven't noticed any problem with the action. Its my first levergun so I don't really know what to expect. You do have to be firm with the action to ensure it kicks the old case out as it really is the last bit of travel that allows proper extraction. There was a little issue with the feeding but that was after a little .38 buildup.

I'm not 100% on wood quality, when I picked it up, I thought I had looked it over pretty well and it was brand new, just out the box on a rack for a couple of months but I got it home and realized there was a bit of wood on the handgrip that had chipped and lifted up. Fortunately the dealer has an in-house stock repairer and it is now an invisible repair. This could just have been poor handling by someone else but then again I'm not running through the woods with it so I dunno.

Oh I forgot to also say I got the poverty-spec one because I found it a bit endearing. It has the near-enough non-adustable ladder sights, and what I would have liked would be that the lines were marked with distance but I don't know if the originals were.

LCR

>slow moving
>completely unjacketed, not even hardcast
Wadcutters were popular in .38 snubs because they were easy to shoot, not because they had any kind of special terminal performance.

357 sig
458 socom

Well, maybe you can get some adjustable rear sight some day to mount on the tang, those were a thing, historically, and a popular upgrade.

How's the fit and finish? Any rough edges anywhere?

Attached: tang sight.jpg (1024x768, 226K)

357 nig and 458 sitcom

Oh yeah, can you take a pic of the rifle? I'd love to see it.

I would like something like this. Can't find any concrete information if common 1892 tang sights would fit a Chiappa, like if there are any differences etc.

Here is one. Why the fuck I decided to take a photo in my shite-lit bedroom I have no idea.

Attached: 20181105_231202.jpg (2823x2117, 1.58M)

fit and finish is not too shabby, the only two tiny issues I have is the wood is flush on the right side of the grip but not quite on the left side, sitting a little proud. Same for the main part of the handguard but I wouldn't say it is at all noticeable during use.

Tang sights are sexy as fuck.

anyone use .44 special?

I used to own a charter arms bull dog, which was the same one Son of Sam used. That's why he was originally called the .44 caliber killer.

It was a nice gun, and easy shooting enough, I could get acceptable patterns with the Sig vcrown ammo, but the cheapest shit I could find were cowboy loads, and they flew wherever the fuck they felt like. Plus it was $36 for a box of 50. I just never felt like I could get effecient practice with that one, and it was too expensive for me to just be a plinker.

Overall, if I had more money at the time, I probably would've kept it. It was a fun piece. Now I have a Makarov for a pocket carry.

>Strange I do the exact opposite. I won’t buy guns chambered for cartridges I don’t already own,

get a pistol in .40 s&w its nice to have options during ammo shortages. otherwise you have pretty much all bases covered. maybe get a big bore revolver or 10mm auto for those rare occasions where you are afraid of wild animals