would a similarly updated BAR of some variety been better than the M14 for NATO, or at least the US?
Monitor vs M14
Hunter Morris
Nathaniel Nelson
>tfw trying to writefag this semi-alternate WWII where one of the one of the Allied Powers decides to field magazine-loaded select fire rifles en masse after encountering the German StG 44 and by 1944 have already equipped several Airborne divisions with them.
Which one should I go with (assuming red tape and cost isn't a problem)? Right now I'm torn between the T20 (M1 Garand converted to accept BAR mags, basically a prototype M14) or a fictional version of the M2 Carbine with a full-length barrel.
Ian Gonzalez
They don't fill the same role. The M14 was primarily an infantry rifle. The Monitor/BAR/whatever was basically a SAW.
Christopher Baker
i don't even need to tell you what the right answer would be because you already thought about it, but are also coming up with excuses why the simplest, cheapest, most reliable and most production-ready one of those would be.
Jack Gutierrez
>The Monitor/BAR/whatever was basically a SAW.
Anthony Phillips
>T20
fuck me it's beautiful...
Owen Richardson
Damn right it is. Basically just a BM-59, and therefor just as sexy.
Isaac Cooper
It's a select fire .30-06. Something like the R75-A would have been a massive improvement over the issued version, and honestly closer to the FAL
Brody Martin
A better automatic rifle that what was settled for
Alexander Cruz
Ryan Rogers
lol ikr
I'm drawn to the T20 because of
1. I just love the M14 from an aesthetic point of view
2. This is a country that has had a longstanding rivalry with the United States and I can use the M14 as a future plot device for showcasing that rivalry when the Vietnam War rolls around and the M16 is introduced (the M16/M14 debate takes on a semi-jingoistic element).
Jaxson Sullivan
Except they are MASSIVELY heavy. A Monitor weighs twice what a FAL does.
Christopher Parker
>BAR mags
Jaxson Williams
T20, It makes more sense and can actually be justified if you want it to.
Jason Collins
both were idiotic concepts so
Parker Bell
but in terms of relative stupidity? Could america ever choose the better of two technical solutions?
Jonathan Adams
Lmao no. Those things are expensive as fuck, heavy as fuck, and useless as fuck. An M14 does literally everything better from an infantryman's point of view so adopting something as different and as stupid as an HCAR or Monitor makes no sense.
Jackson Cook
NO. BARs were not completely reliable and heavy as fuck.
Ryan Sullivan
M14 was supposed to be a do-all role according to all the training films I watched when I bought mine. Single shot for rifleman work, full-auto for close quarters shit, a specific model for the squad machine gun role, ect.
It didn't work out that way though.
Justin Carter
The BAR is quite inherently heavy as fuck.
Honestly if you beef up the Garand a bit you'll end up with a rifle that can perform all the functions of the BAR but with a bit less weight.
Joshua Reed
>Honestly if you beef up the Garand a bit you'll end up with a rifle that can perform all the functions of the BAR but with a bit less weight.
They tried that with the M14E2 and it wasn't successful.
There's no real niche for a low capacity automatic rifle/SAW chambered in 7.62.
Kayden Butler
The BAR was used in a role that is closest to the modern role of the SAW. It's not AS good, but it's what they had come up with and fielded at the time. The M1919 did it better.
Honestly, I think the Monitor did the BAR portion of the M-14's replacing of many infantry weapons much better than the M14 simply because the high rate of fire and the ergonomically sub-optimal configuration of the rifle defeated the purpose of having an automatic rifle that could replace the BAR.
For the purpose of the M-14, I think a lighter, closed bolt, select fire variant of the BAR would've been more controllable, and a superior option, however, simply lowering the M-14's cyclic rate and adding a pistol grip instead of a semi-grip would've ALSO vastly improved performance.
Christopher Flores
>A Monitor weighs twice what a FAL does.
6.0 kg (13.2 lb) (Colt Monitor)
FAL 50.00: 4.3 kg (9.48 lb)
David Harris
What fucking country is this
Better not be Canada
Josiah Garcia
Bar:1918 m249 saw:1984
Wyatt Walker
As a standard service rifle? God no. The BAR is way, WAY heavier and doesn’t really offer anything more. The correct thing to do would have been to adopt the FAL. It’s a better Battle Rifle in every way.
>t.-someone who owns a real full auto M14
Jacob Lewis
This. I had my full-fun M-14 in anE2 configuration and it sucked. The pistol grip was nice, but the bipod sucked, the weird sling/folding foregrip thing was kinda shit, and it just doesn’t do the “squad support” role well.
I managed to convince buddy to flip me the original GI stock it was in (it had sentimental value to him), and the bone stock configuration is better in literally every way.
Carson Reed
Grayson Murphy
I'm surprised no one whipped out his Johnson
John Sullivan
Well yeah they dropped it because they realized that a BAR'esque rifle is fucken useless.
Kevin Howard
That Johnson makes my Johnson the big Johnson. Does that make me gay?
Alexander Taylor
I'll give you a hint, it's below Canada, above Mexico, and ceased to exist nearly a century prior to WWII.
Nolan Butler
Did it only exist for about ten years before getting annexed by the US or did it exist for about five years before losing a war to the US.
Ryder Thompson
Literally the most gorgeous firearm I've ever seen. Thank you, user
Cooper Clark
The Republic of Texas?
Cooper Evans
No, that means you have good taste.
Aaron Sanders
Nathaniel Morris
this
or this
Cooper Phillips
Why didn't the US make a heavy barrel M14?
Hunter Rivera
Based and redpilled
Landon Ross
>I posted without reading any of the other posts: the post
Isaac Young
The latter.
So close that your guess actually started a fire with the residual heat.
DING DING DING DING
See It's a timeline where the South won the American Civil War and the Confederate States of America joins the Allied Powers, declaring war on Nazi Germany in May, 1941. Seven months before Pearl Harbor and the United States' entry into the war.
Brody Hughes
>a fictional version of the M2 Carbine with a full-length barrel.
I'll do you one better (worse)
Owen Jenkins
Now give it magazines that aren't one time use.
Luis Evans
What's this?
Cameron Sanchez
M1A1 carbine + late-/post-war adjustable sights and bayonet lug + 30 round magazine + the stock of a normal M1 grafted on in paint + barrel stretched also in paint
Carter Campbell
Heavier and far more complex than the M14. Chambered in a heavier round as well. I get that it's cool to hate on the M14 now but come on this is taking it a bit far. Let the poor BAR rest in peace.
Brandon Wright
just posting this here as not to inflict it on a non-shit thread
Caleb Cooper
This does strange things to my benis. Where can I find out more?