Equipping every single regular infantry man with a cheap and easy to produce SMG was proven to be a very effective tactic in WW2 by the ruskies.
What i'm wondering is such a tactic might be possible nowadays or is the intermediate calibre rifle just too good? add a few more marksmen to squads or whatever to make up for the lessened long range firepower but other than that, every man who previously got an M4 gets a simple open bolt blowback SMG in maybe 9mm necked down to say 7mm or 6.5mm to give it a tad more range and reduce the weight a bit, make the gun really simple, polymer everything with the necessary parts steel or aluminum, shouldn't cost any more than $50 a piece when production really gets going.
Equipping every single regular infantry man with a cheap and easy to produce SMG was proven to be a very effective...
Lucas Wright
Other urls found in this thread:
dtic.mil
twitter.com
Brayden Myers
Everyone who's interested in a race war already has a rifle OP.
If you're talking about a government supplied force,
"As of 2014, Kalashnikov Concern sells the AK-103 at a government price of $150 to $160 (USD) per unit."
If you're building a stamping line for dirt cheap mass production, you might as well mass produce rifles. Now go larp somewhere else.
Isaiah Walker
SMGs are pretty good at 100 yards and less. So are assault rifles, which are just as good at 300-500 yards and aren't nothing at 800.
Also, body armor is far more common and effective than in WW2. Given that you might be firing a thousand rounds for every hit, have 50+% of your hits have zero terminal effect is going to make you a lot less effective. Your soldiers will also KNOW how shitty their guns are compared to the enemy's assault rifles, which will make them more timid.
Dominic Gutierrez
Let me pull some numbers out of my ass:
Every soldier carries 300 rounds for their personal weapon.
100 soldiers attack each other. One company is armed with SMGs, the other with assault rifles.
At 800 yards, the riflemen pop off a few rounds, say ten rounds per soldier or a thousand rounds. The SMGs can do nothing but take cover or take it. The riflemen inflict one casualty, and they've already established fire superiority as the SMGs start crawling and bounding while the riflemen move freely.
One the forces are 500 few apart, the riflemen increase their rate of fire since they're within effective range. Each guy finishes out his mag -- 2000 rounds -- and every 500 rounds is a hit.
The SMGs have taken five casualties and 3000 rounds of direct fire to get within their 300 yard max effective range. Each SMG soldier uses a magazine to close to 100 yards. Fire 3000 rounds to get six hits -- but half of those hits are on body armor and do nothing. Meanwhile the riflemen fire the same amount and get six hits of their own, all effective. Assuming the SMGs are exactly as accurate as rifles at ranges between 100-300 yards (lol), they've already lost 10% of their force and exchanged casualties with the riflemen at 1:3. And they have no significant advantage at ranges
Lincoln Parker
protip: life isn't a tabletop wargame
Evan Smith
>What i'm wondering is such a tactic might be possible nowadays or is the intermediate calibre rifle just too good?
Yes. You retard. What next, ask for recoiless rifles for anti tank duty, when RPGs are ten hundred thousand million billion percent better?
6.5x38, aka 6.5 Grendel, aka SEX FOIV GRANNY, is literally just a necked down 7.62 x 39mm. And can do everything a WWII SMG could do, and do it better. FFS, the AK was doctrinally designed as a beefed up SMG.
Just make AKM patterned rifles in 6.5 Grendel and meme the round into popularity.
Ryan Turner
Depends on the situation. If you're defending a city with conscripts ALA Stalingrad it would probably be a pretty good idea assuming your country's manufacturing is already at capacity in a war of attrition type scenario (think eastern front or 1918 Germany).
As others have said, once you throw any amount of range or training into the equation, assault rifles are just better. Also 9mm and 5.56 are about the same weight per bullet, so the SMG doesn't really even give you more sustained firepower.
James Gray
>which are just as good at 300-500 yards
wrong
dtic.mil
Christopher Bailey
I'm sorry, but I absolutely do not believe there were more PPsHs among Ruskie infantry than Nuggets.
Nicholas Stewart
No but they had many specialized ass squads for cqc
Henry Wright
Why have everyone use a gun that has less range, a higher fire rate, and a less powerful round? Assault rifles are the culmination of 100 years of firearms development since the industrialization of the first world. Same as currents planes and tanks. They aren’t as cheap as SMGs but that doesn’t matter anymore.
Jaxson Scott
Thanks for pointing out why he was wrong.
Cooper Powell
>Also 9mm and 5.56 are about the same weight per bullet, so the SMG doesn't really even give you more sustained firepower.
There weren't, and there weren't even more SMGs built total than Mosins. And couldn't be either, since they didn't hit on there super simple, and effective, designs until the war was in full swing, meanwhile Mosin Nagants had been in production literally for decades.
And if you don't have advanced plastics available, then you can still make servicable AK pattern rifles nearly as easily as SMGs. And just change it to whatever caliber you expect will be the most plentiful.
About the only reason to go for SMGs, is if you are really in the shit, while also having the good grace to have a fuckton of pistol ammo. Otherwise? AK pattern rifle is simple and effective and easily produceable.
Angel Myers
You must be a poor.
Why save $1-2k on a gun when you're paying soldiers tens of thousands of dollars each year and are paying even more for their training?
It might have been different back then when guns were more expensive to produce, but nowadays the most expensive part of a soldier is the soldier.
Kayden Parker
Shit, I'd give a kidney for an AK in Grendel.
>inb4 Century makes one
Aiden Myers
IIRC, Galil is going to start making one. And it shouldn't be that hard to do a conversion.
Luke Cox
Smg’s were great for urban combat before the advent of effective body armor.
If your fighting skinny’s in an African city then sure they might be useful. But you’ll likely be fighting against Ak’s so good luck.
Dylan Cook
fugg, it would be the shekel farmers
better start saving
Alexander Davis
>the most expensive part of a soldier is the soldier
Don't forget to pay your taxes.
Michael Watson
It costs money to train them. Like, a bunch. And even though they are trained in groups, they still require a dozen people directly training through basic and some more to be over the base, and MOS training includes its own facilities and staff etc.
That being said, using a Javelin for a lot of stuff is over kill, but fuck it, use it or lose.
Ryder Gonzalez
>every single regular infantryman
>ruskies
>WW2
user, the Russians could have been equipped with Nagant revolvers and been effective when they would flood any battlefield they were in.
Asher Collins
>Also 9mm and 5.56 are about the same weight per bullet
Oh yeah true, that's why i specified 9mm necked down to 7-6mm
A 9mm necked down to something crazy like 5.56mm would be pretty interesting.
Luis Allen
In Stalingrad for example some Russian units were winning in the firepower department against similarly sized German units because they just gave every man a ppsh.
Cameron Smith
>Russia
>WWII
>every man with an SMG
They couldn't even give everyman a nugget, the most produced firearm in the world.
Nathan Collins
6.2 kg of steel and 2.7 hours of machining time per gun, 350 000 guns a month, if they had started pumping out these guns four years earlier at the start of the war the PPS43 would be the only thing you'd see in the hands of commie regulars during the war.
Bentley Martin
>What next, ask for recoiless rifles for anti tank duty, when RPGs are ten hundred thousand million billion percent better?
Check out this “weapon expert” bahahahah haaaaaa
Jaxson Flores
>ask for recoiless rifles for anti tank duty
yeah man that would be incredibly dumb...