Why haven’t you gone out to a USPSA match yet, Jow Forums? >get to shoot rapid fire >shoot on the move >tests your overall shooting ability
Competition shooting is beneficial to defensive training. It is pure isolation of shooting mechanics and you will get to see high level shooters perform in person. >it will get you killed on the streets!1 Plenty of SOF and professional LE shoot competitively and are advocates of the sport. Some examples are Pat MacNamara, Larry Vickers, Mike Pannone, Kyle Lamb and Frank Proctor.
>Too poor for a riced out handgun >Too nervous to be judged for being a first timer >None in my area
Samuel Jones
I've been meaning to, just haven't gotten around to it. I'm not a great pistol shooter, what's the standard entry experience point for shooters, very skilled/noobs?
Carter Perez
It's a sport, like SASS. Not combat training. And I have zero interest in watching *other* people shoot. It's about as entertaining as golf.
>he doesn't do cowboy action shooting to prepare for showdowns on the street when DOTR comes i'm not your huckleberry, senpai
Xavier Perez
Because i shoot IDPA and 2gun.
Ryan Williams
Keep in mind that this is all what my experience has been but I've tried several different shooting competitions and although they're all great for practice and learning they're all really big gay. The only ones I've ever enjoyed and felt like I really got something out of were outlaw 2 gun matches and even then that was really dependent on who was doing the stages. And desu a lot of the pistol only comps are full of crusty old dudes who are just lame to be around.
Joseph Fisher
> Under no stress So put some fucking monwy down. Also, you goober, unless you have access to UTMs, what the hell do you use for shooting under stress innoculation?
Xavier Hill
>what's the standard entry experience point for shooters, very skilled/noobs?
Safe gun handling, literally. Can you draw your gun without muzzling yourself? Do you know what the 180 is? Are you able to safely handle a firearm while moving? That’s literally it.
You can be the slowest and worst shooter at the match but you’re better than 99% of gun owners who will never put themselves out there to perform infornt of 20 people. People at matches are extremely friendly towards new shooters and some will go out of their way to show you the ropes.
If you want to get into bettering your shooting, check out some of Ben Stoeger’s stuff and Steve Anderson’s books on dryfire.
How many force on force classes have you taken?
Carson Phillips
>Why haven’t you gone out to a USPSA match yet, Jow Forums? Because all the motherfuckers who shoot USPSA near me are fucking shooting machines. Like doing a 10 round bill drill on a 6" target at 10y with 1 flier and .15 splits.
I need to start just to learn stage planning, but I'll just be wasting their time.
Levi Bell
>How many force on force classes have you taken? It's fucking Phil, dude. Why ask questions you already know the answers to?
Eli Green
What an incredibly stupid comment. If you think competition doesn't make you a better shooter then: 1. You've never shot competition 2. You're a no-guns faggot who likes to spout nonsense on a gun board I've learned a tremendous amount from watching other people clean stages.
For me it's usually times I'm at work or I just disagree with their rules. Would rather train than compete.
Jaxson Flores
>Steve Anderson’s books on dryfire. Are people actually doing the full routine in these things. There's so damn many index draws.
Nolan Cox
>pedo even I would jerk it over that first image and I'm not gay or a pedo
Henry Ortiz
Phil continues to be the biggest faggot on this board
Joseph Wright
Liking traps doesn't make him a pedo. It does make him very, very gay, though.
Carson Young
Hey phil
Nathaniel Wright
I have!
I bought myself a 92fs as an early graduation present in like February or March. I've shot 4 or 5 matches since then. I fucked up most of my early classifiers (first match was a four-classifier match, the rest just had one classifier) so I'm still U, but I've raised my ranking in matches from dead last to 3rd/4th/5th from last out of 20 or so in my class.
I'm trying to avoid tacticool shit, race guns, eighty thousand kydex belt pouches, etc because I want to practice/compete how I carry - bone stock 92fs (might put in a lighter hammer spring) 4 o'clock OWB (under a jacket/shirt, but I tuck it in for competition) with two mags in my opposite pants pocket, though I have to carry another in my back pocket for some high-round-count stages.
Any tips for stage planning and strategies? I feel that's my weakest area.
Ayden Cooper
>Training does not help in situations where you can apply training. So do you set out every morning to say the dumbest shit on this board?
trap posters need to be perma banned, prove me wrong
Jace Edwards
>Any tips for stage planning and strategies? Yeah, go find AARs from B level or better shooters online, especially in Production.
> Limited minor Does that mean you only get to shoot against other 9mm's, or do you compete against the major guys too? If it's the latter, kudos. What are you shooting, and how many in the magazine?
I have to duke it out with major guys. I shoot a HK P30L 9mm with 15 round mags and a LEM trigger. I hate myself
Christian Taylor
>bought myself a 92fs as an early graduation present in like February or March. I've shot 4 or 5 matches since then.
Good to hear! If you haven’t heard of them, Gabe White and Les Kismartoni both compete at a high level with their carry gear. Les used to compete heavily as a GM using a Beretta 92 but he does AIWB now.
Can’t comment on the whole stage planning thing since I’m atrocious at it but try to minimize dead time. Sprint from position to position, work on how quick you transition from target to target and work on the things that will most likely come up at a stage. Quite sure people like Tim Herron and Ben Stoeger have videos on Youtube concerning stage planning.
>Why haven’t you gone out to a USPSA match yet, Jow Forums? Because it's mega larp. Nothing about USPSA or IDPA is realistic. Look at the fucking picture you posted for christ sakes. It's not representative of the amount of rounds fired, good use of cover (IDPA is better in this regard at least), incorporating movement into fighting (unless it's running to cover) and even the amount of targets. Worse yet, the safety nazi atmosphere of this shit - I've literally been told not to bring my gun up into my workspace to reload because I'm "dangerously close to breaking the 180 bubble - can instill some retarded and dangerous habits into your mind. There is no bubble in combat. if you like shooting it because you get to shoot your gun in a dynamic atmosphere, great, but don't pretend it's realistic. Its less realistic than someone taking sport karate all their life and actually roundhousing someone into submission.
Sim rounds or even fucking paintball like the military uses are a much better analogy for a chaotic shooting situation. But this enrages the USPSA fag.
It's not so bad, I can get 0.18 splits on bill drills sometimes, to be fair three of my five mags now have 3d printed +3 extensions. 18 rounds baby.
Adam Walker
Reminder that Jerry Miculek is a Special Forces Instructor.
Chase Smith
Even if you’re a shit shot, you won’t affect the match time at all. Get out and shoot a match. You’ll immediately see what you need to improve and others will be glad to help. Above all, people in shooting sports want to see it become more popular, beginners are always welcome as long as they’re safe
Joshua Perry
>Because it's mega larp. Nothing about USPSA or IDPA is realistic. Stopped reading here because the rest of it is just cope for being S L O W
Landon Cook
It encourages fundamental firearm skills and is really good at inducing stress. Nobody said it teaches tactics you tard. But who cares, you don’t own any guns anyways.
>realistic It’s more realistic than thinking you’ll ever be involved in combat or a self defense situation that isn’t mag dumping some crack head at less than 5 yds
Aiden Young
>But this enrages the USPSA fag. Yeah, the straw man USPSA fag maybe. No one in their right mind is saying to choose USPSA over force-on-force for shooting people in the face. I would also have said no one but a straman Timmy would tell people to avoid competition because it will get you killed in the streets, but here we are.
Jeremiah Lee
>realistic Mechanical skill is a huge part of handgun shooting. USPSA trains mechanical skill. >shooting on the move >speed shooting >shooting from cover USPSA does not replace other forms of training, it augments it. You're a fucking retard.
Joshua Powell
>Shoot production class. >Stop being a whiny bitch >Bullshit, I drive 3 hours one way for a match some weekends.
That shit was fun and some of the old fucks were really good at it.
Angel Martin
Have you ever been in a competition ever? I've shot competitive sporting clays for over a decade and the stress when you are having the round of your life in a registered match is fucking crazy.
Asher Morris
>I suck at shooting and I’m butth0rt I got DQ’d for breaking the 180 like a retard >muh werkspess cope harder, faggot.
Whats "breaking the 180"? Not that user, I've just never heard the term before.
Nicholas Harris
There's an invisible line that bisects your body that covers the 180 degrees in front of you. If you let the gun go past that 180 degrees so that it's pointing behind you then you're considered unsafe and are DQ'd.
Ah so during a match you must always have it held forward basically
Henry Gomez
It's just range-speak that means "everything in front of you" because "everything in front of the firing line" doesnt work if you are going to be moving a significant distance from said firing line.
Nolan Campbell
If I shot competitively the gun I would use is my P30 with the LEM trigger. Only because it's the only gun I own that would make sense for me to use. That, combined with the trouble finding a club near me means I haven't competed yet.
Nicholas Green
Good on him! A healthy body is a happy body and a happy body enjoys shooting even more.
Daniel Gray
Quints of truth!
Andrew Diaz
Yeah, it's essentially just a more specific way of saying "always point the gun down range"
Jaxson Diaz
Have you used practiscore? Go there and search your area
Idk if they fixed the issue yet but they have a history of breaking firing pins. Like $30 will get you a tougher one and a beefed up spring kit
Chase Martinez
Podcast of some crusty old competitors were bitching about Jonasson selling out, but even they admitted pistols coming with 3 mec-gar mags and optic ready slides at the $600 mark was a pretty damn good deal.
3gun is filled with morons who will urge you to spend 2k on shotgun and shotgun related shit 2gun is pretty cool USPSA is fun. IDPA is USPSA with more rules and more larping
look on practiscore for matches
Evan Butler
>Some examples are Pat MacNamara, Larry Vickers, Mike Pannone, Kyle Lamb and Frank Proctor.
Even Bob Keller advocates shooting competitions and this guy usually criticizes all methods of training and only focuses on the fundamentals.
>Q: What are your thoughts on competitive shooting and training scars?
>A: “I have shot IPSC and USPSA matches. They can definitely be beneficial. If you are going to do that, I’d suggest you compete in the stock class. People who run unlimited or pro class — there’s a huge difference between those guns and your basic concealed-carry pistol. It’s hard to transition from one to the other. Shooting a match where you have to be safe, keep your muzzle downrange, safely moving and shooting and get good solid hits — these are all good habits. As long as you go into the competition with the mindset that all the targets are bad guys, and you use cover appropriately, you won’t go down the wrong road with these competitions.” thegunwriter.com/22547/qa-a-special-operations-legend-defines-real-world-firearms-training/
Kyle Lamb actually commented he felt more nervous during shooting competitions than during his entire tour in Afghanistan or even Mogadishu (Gothic Serpent).
youtube.com/watch?v=9dYa0fTN5Sc >38:00 - Kyle Lamb gets into explaining why Competition is the best way to sharpen the skills you learn in Training. He thinks highly of 3-Gun Competition. Also said he's never been more nervous in his life, to include Combat, than he was during 3-Gun Nationals.
I got 2nd place tonight, guy who beat me is a USPSA Master class shooter using a Limited Major STI so I'm not too broken up over it lol
Matthew King
Damn good night.
I need yo renew my USPSA membership. It expired last month. Shot a match in February and March, then my work schedule changed. If you don't have the belt and mag holders, or can't run, Steel Challenge is a lot of fun. First time you've hit all five from a draw in 3 seconds is a heck of a feeling of accomplishment. Smoke and Hope is right in your face close. Round About and Accelerator are more challenging but sub 4 second runs are possible with a bit of practice. The good shooters make music with the steel. I am not there yet.
Dominic Lopez
I actually started by shooting steel challenge, got a 2.99 run on S&H last month
>I didn't hear the second hit on the second run, and that RO had been calling misses on targets people were hitting all day so I was parinoid. We don't repaint between shooters so it's basically impossible to contest
Justin Myers
Electronic amplified hearing protection is an advantage in Steel Challenge. Not hearing the ding can make me hesitate but if I am able to call my shot and control the recoil I should be able to see hit. Guy I was squaded with last match was recently retired Federal Air Marshal. In PCC he was in the low 8 total with some 1.9 runs in S&H. He is unclassified and it was his first season competing. He has a CC training side business in retirement. I will be taking some classes. 1 on 1 for $30 per hour is a deal. CC was his career and FedGov sent him to top tier training and it showed.
That 2.99 was kick ass. You are ready for the Zombies.
Wyatt Miller
Did anyone else see the thumbnail and think it was a dude shooting with one hand and trying to hold back a dog on a leash with the other?
Joseph Barnes
>>it will get you killed on the streets!1 But that's correct
Owen Clark
>! Faggot reddit.
Carson Campbell
Objectively false, only Israeli carry will get you KITS
Same here satan
I wear PowerMuffs, I knew I hit the plate but it was a weak hit and that RO had been basically ignoring hits people were making all day if they weren't super clear "gong" sounding strikes. I shot a makeup hit to avoid him fucking me.
>Sub 2 S&H I bet that sounded bad ass as hell, even for PCC that's absolutely incredible. I was proud of my 2.99 but I'm not delusional about it being amazing by national standards lol, some day I'll be really good.
Here is a stage from tonight (I'm IP range B& and can't post images/webMs so I'm just linking) streamable.com/1es7i
Landon Ward
yeah just watching one of these matches and having kicked in a couple doors in my life, none of this strikes me as something that promotes good habits in a real-world scenario. in the real world, you don't want to be zipping around like you're on meth -- you want to be methodically clearing everything you can. obviously when it's time to breach and you're making your entry, there's the time for speed, but that's only in a fireteam-sized exercise. if it were just me and i were clearing a room, i'd be pie'ing every doorway and corner and checking everything i can. the kind of scenario this shit seems to promote where you're zipping from one firing position to the next and shooting targets you already know the location of i think could breed some false confidence.
Aaron Ward
You vet fags are a god damn safety liability whenever you touch a handgun and are totally useless withoutfive other guys behind you. Frig off, do not pass go, do not collect $200 disability.
Lincoln Jackson
do you really think a competitive shooter is going to be sprinting all the time in a real situation?
Adrian Collins
who knows? they're competitive shooters, not professional soldiers. i don't know what goes through a civilian's brain when rounds start popping off.
Brody Barnes
whatever helps ur inferiority complex, sweetheart
Carter Rivera
>i don't know what goes through a civilian's brain Math more complicated than crayon plus PTSD equal disability check for one
>crayon plus PTSD equal disability check for one this is pretty good though, i'll give it to you
Zachary Clark
>Tigger'd
I was also thinking "Israel thanks you (and other gunfighter ballads)" but I'm a sucker for that dumb crayon meme.
Charles Jones
Hear me out. No one, and I mean not a single person on this earth, is going to behave like they do in a match when a bullet flies at them.
I do agree that competition encourages speed at the expense of accuracy, but that's just the way it is now. Only way you can change that is a scoring change and smaller A zones. But that's small time, because USPSA isn't a room clearing competition, it's a gun handling competition.
Parker Bennett
>t. Reservist Meanwhile real operators shoot these sports to get better
Nolan Foster
""""""""real operators"""""""" have a much broader base of training that this augments, rather than having it form the bedrock of their mindset towards engagements. i'm not saying that it isn't valuable to be able to handle a weapon in the way that USPSA promotes. my point is that on its own it doesn't do enough to prepare someone for the realities of a deadly engagement. also, >reservist fuck off nasty girl. the only people who find reservists their immediate lower on the totem pole are fucking nasty girls, prove me wrong.
Juan Flores
>my point is that on its own it doesn't do enough to prepare someone for the realities of a deadly engagement Preaching to the choir, my man. But then I'm not sure how much FoF training accomplishes there either.
Ayden Smith
training for life-threatening events has this weird quandary where you need to at least try to simulate a portion of the stress involved in the real thing while being safe enough that you avoid lawsuits/going to jail in the civilian sector, or wasting all the money you already spent on joe in the military. the way they tried to simulate this (i think) in the army was through wearing you down over the course of an FTX and then dropping you into live fire training. i don't know the solution, really. there's just a fundamental divide between training and experience that you can't really bridge without actually having the experience. maybe the new VR technology will be helpful in the coming decades.
Tyler Lee
My range is owned by a USPSA grandmaster. I got to play with is collection. I'm B class, which is as far as most competent shooters are capable of getting to, so I guess I might need to consider cranking up my practice.
My big fear is not being able to spot the threat in a batshit scenario, not freezing up. I always think about that guy who tried to stop a shooter in a department store and missed his accomplice walking behind him, who promptly domed him.
There's also the unspoken (imo) issue of "blue-on-blue", both for civilian and police, and I don't even know where to begin there besides a handheld light course, which is just the tip of the iceberg. There's just too much shit when it's not your job.
