China and Afghanistan

When US steadily pulls out of Afghanistan the Chinese are coming in.

They already own mining rights for rare earth like lithium and want to expand their trading routes. Chinese have built military bases for the Afghans for training purposes but really use them for themselves and conduct patrols in the country. It's only matter of time when they expand their presence to protect their assets.

Would you give up Afghanistan with all of it's problems to the Chinese to handle?

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Hopefully the Chinese will take a cue from the other two superpowers that ultimately destroyed themselves there and take a hands-off approach, letting the dune coons live in their squalor peacefully.

That’s likely part of the reason why the US won’t ever fully leave Afghanistan. Hopefully it’ll eventually become stable in the process.

Honestly, they're better off not getting involved in the decades long headache that is the middle east.
They're probably laughing at us for the money and resources we've wasted in that sand filled hellhole.

Will they go with level 9001 concentration camps?

Probably

its more likely they won't let humanitarian bullshit get in the way of what they want. they'll probably get the job done unlike the half assed attempts of the US

>Chinese to handle?
China can handle the Uyghurs so I'm pretty sure they can handle Afghans as well.

>Hopefully it’ll eventually become stable in the process.
Under the Taliban, yeah.

The Soviets didn’t give a shit about human rights and somehow managed to perform worse than the US did in Afghanistan. I don’t think “being too nice” is the issue.

More Muslims for China to stick in camps I guess

Afghanistan is sitting on $3 trillion mineral wealth, either pull the fuck out or get the stomach to do imperialism/colonialism right.

>When US steadily pulls out of Afghanistan the Chinese are coming in.
>They already own mining rights for rare earth like lithium and want to expand their trading routes.
>Chinese have built military bases
Honest question, is the US losing on purpose or something? Because this level of incompetence and negligence is just un-fucking-believable.

This has to be a joke of some kind.

>They already own mining rights
That's not entirely true tho.

not even, kid

look at this same fag

I vote for the latter. Military-protected mining operations all over Afghanistan would be a worthwhile investment. We’ve basically owned the place for 18 years, might as well extract some value from it.

Pretty sure the soviets went hog wild as well, they still got pushed out. As incompetent and backwards as goatfuckers are, they do have a knack for getting extremely autistic about foreign occupation.

Frankly I don't care either way, but I'm leaning towards that as well.

What they want to achieve is too vague.
Democracy? What does that even mean? Can they even do it?

This. Fighting with kid gloves isn’t the issue. The problem with Afghanistan is that the various villages that make up the country outside of major cities have zero desire to act as a unified nation, and no one seems to be able to offer enough of an incentive to get them to change that.

>Democracy
You really can't have Democracy in a state with conflicting tribesmen not recognizing each-other as countrymen. Also not every people want to live in liberal democracy.

Not politically feasible.

Exactly.

Maybe not take all the wealth for ourselves. Bit it could be set up as a corporate partnership between American mining, security companies, and the Afghan government. I'm not sure about the split, but anything is better than what's going on atm.

Dude, Afghanistan fucking borders China. It is not in the Middle East.

The real problem is that US propped up hardcore drug production in Afghanistan and East Asians are vehemently anti-drug.
Occupation of Afghanistan would inevitably lead to spreading those drugs across East Asia which is something that no Chinese would ever allow.

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Soviets will seem nice compared to what chinks will do. These are people who use flamethrowers indescriminately against uygers and throw entire minority populace’s into re-education camps. and The China of today is much more powerful and technologically advanced than the Russia of the 80s and have even less empathy or regard for human life.

The problem that the Soviets did was not in brutality, but in not holding on to what was conquered. The Soviets would mass large fighting columns to barrel through the countryside killing everything in its path just to go back to their base and repeat the process again.

If only we could combine the no fucks given "work with me or die" mentality that was the Soviet Union with the clear and hold strategy of the US. Shit would've been over before the second tower even fell.

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>Not politically feasible
>Not wanting to establish an American colony in Afghanistan
>Not excepting the governments neo-manifest destiny acts like giving colonists promises of massive plots of land and tax breaks to go
>Not wanting to be an American backed fucking warlord operating on behalf of the state
YOU FUCKING WHAT M8?

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What the fuck is this border gore

Wanting something ≠ it being politically feasible.

It would be great to turn Afghanistan into an American colony and extract all of it's resources but it's simply not politically feasible.

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Pig after pig. Cow after cow. Village after village. Army after army.

Did you just realize now? It's a fucking artificial mess. And the middle east is even worse.

That’s why developing the mining industry there could be a huge gain for everyone involved. If regulated properly, it gives people lucrative work that pays infinitely better than goat herding or whatever they do all day, it gives American taxpayers and companies a reason to support continued military involvement, and it supports a fledgling economy that could finally bring some stability to the place. If the choice is sitting in a cave with some Taliban or making a good-enough wage working in a mine 8 hours a day, I’d like to think enough people would choose the latter once the benefits become clear.

It's kinda depressing how far Afghanistan has devolved. Like it was in it's way to modernizing and westernizing before the Soviets invaded. Now it's goat fucker Mad Max. I guess that's what 40+ years of unrest and war will do to a country.

Then tell me under which administration it'll become politically feasible?

They aren't even doing this in Africa and fucking turned tail the moment they got into an actual fight. The Afghans would drown their land with the blood of chinks

Unlike the US or USSR, the Chinese have so much surplus population that they can simply depopulate the region of whoever doesn't agree with them and replace them with more Chinks. Afghanistan is gonna be Chinese by 2100.

The good guys.
*dabs*

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Did you guys not pay attention in history? Brutalising the population of an occupied nation into submission has not worked since the invention of the machine gun.
You just cant scare people out of resisting when literally anyone who can get thier hands on a firearm made any time in the last century can effectively kill your soldiers.
Genocide doesn't work either, since you are immediately placing yourself in a prisoners dilemma with every other nation on earth by doing so and encouraging an equally destructive reprisal once the table inevitably turn

unironically a result of western imperialism, most of the borders that exist in that region today were drawn by major powers divvying up the oilfields.

>Genocide doesn't work either, since you are immediately placing yourself in a prisoners dilemma with every other nation on earth by doing so and encouraging an equally destructive reprisal once the table inevitably turn
It works if the world economy relies on you and sanctioning you would literally kill parts of the sanctioning nations' populations from the resulting infrastructure damage, which is the position China has.

Moral statements become a lot less moral when you start forcing your citizens to die for them.

This.

China won't have nato interference.

The real problem china will face is throwing all their infantry at the country when they have zero experience.

China's aware of a possible economical recession as soon as it's housing market collapses and they've got the might to press on afghanistan for it's resources. They're already invested in africa and are building a cargo railway system through the mountains to pakistan which will severely reduce trade costs.

Personally, I say fuck it. Let the chinese have afghanistan. The difference here between a chinese occupation and the previous is that lives are a small price to pay. Let them drown afghanistan in chinese blood. They can resettle the region as a colony for all I care.

At the end we'll still be ordering cheaper shitty chinese knock off Iphones that break just as easily but at half the price.

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You have it all wrong. Genocide isn't what's going to happen, not because of any moral quandries on the part of the Chinese, but because they have been on the receiving end of it enough times to know that it doesn't work because after you burn down the first town everyone knows what you're up to and is going to do their damnedest to resist.

What the Chinese are going to do, is what they're doing in Australia and Canada, which is buy every important part of Afghanistan and slowly migrate in their workforce, gradually replacing goat farmers with more efficient wage slaves. It's slow, insidious, but foolproof, and the fact that Afghanistan has no unified culture makes each individual tribe helpless to be blotted out by the Han hordes.

The gayest post of the day by far. counter insurgency is simple. Control the civilian populated areas and those who submit to you. Protect them. Those who don't, flag them as partisans and destroy them. People will choose safety and an assurance of a meal over ideology once you get them past a certain point.
>Roll in
>Destroy opposition
>conquer and control civpop
>control the food and water
>protect and give benefits to those who side with you
>go straight up civil protection pick up that can mode on those who don't
>those who actively resist get a playdate with William T. Sherman
>rinse repeat until the job is done

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Yes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakhan_Corridor

The border areas are also full of mountains.

What you described here is counter insurgency, not genocide. How would you conduct genocide then, avoiding the problems mentioned by ?

The Arab fears the Han.

The CCP can export good Chink Muslims to marry Afghan women. Give a few generations.

So apparently Russia is Western now.

It's like you really think the US will ever really leave. I remember being that naive once.

No such thing as lucrative work in Afghanistan. Wherever a man can be hired, the job can be subcontracted to a guy for half the price. That guy does the same, until the lowest step on the ladder sees more profit in running off with the work clothes and tools than what he is supposed to get paid. Especially since the overseer is also Afghan, and underpays half the workers while the rest of the crew only exists on paper to draw wages for the same foreseer. You can't make these people into model employees and the 'government' only exists to fill the pockets of the top brass.

Why would they? It provides a reliable presence in Central Asia, at a relatively trivial cost in both men and money.

Got to say that for the Chinese though - they could really use a war in Afghanistan. Finally some live training for their troops again an enemy uncapable of large scale attacks, and testing opportunity for all their hardware. Plus they already have half a centurys experience in vast scale secret policing under their belt.

That’s why you impose strict corporate regulations, with American managers. Not saying it’d really work, but cultural issues with corruption can be dealt with eventually.

Ask the US forces there how strict regulations and American officers manage so far, when it comes to making ANA an efficient, trustworthy organisation.

Corruption can be dealt with. But by outsiders? I don't think so.

Touché. I just suspect that if an Afghan can make more money in a day’s work by making US minimum wage than he would in a month of whatever it is he’s currently doing, there’d be a greater incentive to get with the program.

>Implessive

The option is already there. Sort of. Remember when the US and the others in the invasion set were going to end the production of drugs in Afghanistan? They destroyed the crops, then handed the farmer sacks of daisy and apple seeds so the farmers could make crops at a fraction of the value of the heroin. Last I heard, these new crops of daisies and apples still has not appeared on the market. Besides the farmers not wanting to be ruined and the war lords insisting on not getting their lucrative cut reduced, the poppies keep growing. It is an interesting case of incentive vs reality though.

>They already own mining rights for rare earth like lithium and want to expand their trading routes. Chinese have built military bases for the Afghans for training purposes but really use them for themselves and conduct patrols in the country. It's only matter of time when they expand their presence to protect their assets.

None of this is true.

Uh America didn't "destroy themselves" there retard.

Sadly the only chance of Afghanistan not falling back to the Taliban is through education of the populace which is basically impossible. The only real option is to get the Taliban to abandon their terrorist activities when they do get back into at least some power.

Do you guys think that the West will get involved was word gets out the Chinks are shoahing ths Afghanis? Shit they intervened when Croats were removing Kebab in Bosnia, why wouldn’t they in Afghan after all the effort they took to minimize collateral damage during their war? I’m not saying it’ll be effective or even slow down those fuckin bugmen but I doubt they’ll stay quiet about it

Chinese going full 1939 Germany style on Afghanistan after the US leaves. I'm kinda okay with this

That’s the thing, though. Heroin can’t net all that much money by US standards in a place like Afghanistan. If you could provide jobs that pay a minimum US wage in a way that’d be profitable for the companies providing the jobs, nearly everyone but the true Taliban believers would work with American interests in order to get that kind of money. If Afghanistan has the kind of mineral wealth that many claim it does, mass mining operations owned by American companies could be a vehicle for providing those jobs.

This. Geneva is a joke and war has no rules. That fantasy needs to go. No one ever tries to obey it but Westerners and the US, and whenever Muslims bomb 100 of their own people to kill 5 US soldiers, or hide behind their women and children getting them killed, the leftists and retards of the world blame Americans and claim "muh US killed a million Iraqis". When you look deeper irs always muslims killing their own and blaming the US.

I fucking hate every person who thinks soldiers are "peacekeepers" or "humanitarian workers". Anyone who pushes that shit again should be banned from government or executed.

As soon as Al Qaeda wasn't handed over by the Taliban after 9/11 we should have killed just bombed the fuck out of every city, took only their rivers and arable land, and starved the country until they handed them over. It likely would have killed less people.
Pbviously Iraq was bullshit and Cheney should hang for that shit.

America didn't destroy itself at all like what this user said. The general anti war sentiment makes you think that we fucked up in Afghanistan but in general we've successfully put the Taliban out of power in most populated regions in Afghanistan and are only there now in a training and support if seriously needed role through the NATO Resolute Support Mission. The main problem is education of the Afghanis so they don't fall into the Taliban again because the Taliban aren't going away, they are literally set on their objectives as a life mission to god and can instantly turn into a civilian and back if they so choose.

Agreed. And the objective was Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. They both got owned.

What's the shit I hear about US,UK, Nato forces protecting and smuggly opium or heroin from Afghanistan.

I do think as soon as we killed bin laden we should have left the country to rot with an ultimatum. Allow this shit again and we glass your country in total war. And make it a weapons testing ground.

Nigger conspiracy theories.
Most of the opium comes through Chinese shipping and Mexico.

That’s sort of the issue at this point. I don’t see any way of leaving that doesn’t send the country right back to where it was in 1998 or so. The best thing I can think of is US companies investing in infrastructure in American-controlled regions to grow the economy. That’s still a decades-long solution, though.

/thread

whats the deal with the camo

It is as Western as shitholes like Greece, user.
And Russian Imperialisim is just another in the long list of things vodka-niggers have in common with burgerfats. Siberian being land taken over from local Native Siberian population en-masse. And Central Asian border being largely a holdover from The Great Game, a dick-measuring contest between the two biggest imperial powers of their time, Russia and Britian.

China my ass? Dont you mean Laos, Myammar, Thailand, Cambodia, and Vietnam that Golden triangle shit.

So the good thing Taliban destroyed opium poppies or did that actually do that to manipulate the market and sell it at a higher price so they could by more arms (guns, ammo, missiles, rockets, mortars, mines) and equipment.

>Opium production skyrockets after us invasion with no end in site
>Conspiracy

>? Shit they intervened when Croats were removing Kebab in Bosnia, why wouldn’t they in Afghan after all the effort they took to minimize collateral damage during their war? I’m not saying it’ll be effective or even slow down those fuckin bugmen but I doubt they’ll stay quiet about it
Your Tl;DR answer is a country in the balkans getting a bit uppity is not china.

Russia went full white power/white supremacist and stole land from the yellow man in Central Asia and Siberia. All extended parts of Chinese sphere of influence.

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The American people won't want anything to do with another war there but the American government won't let their puppet state fall with nary a whimper, so probably just CIA boondoggling

>Dont you mean Laos, Myammar, Thailand, Cambodia, and Vietnam that Golden triangle shit.

user, you're on Jow Forums.
You have to realise that when you're talking about anything involving geography outside of the 50-mile radius around their home and workplace, 99% of these people have never even seen a geography book and all of their "education" in that regard comes from Fox News.

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>Pbviously Iraq was bullshit and Cheney should hang for that shit.
While true, the war in iraq didn't have any good reason to become a lengthy occupation.

The war in afghanistan was truly a war that should have been fought in other ways.

Central Asia was a no-man's land, you idiot.
You had a few Persian-influenced polities but for the most part, these were nomadic people who got fucked over hardcore due to said dick contest.
Siberia was the land of Native Siberians, actual ancestors of the Native Americans that burgerfats removed on their side of the Bering Strait.
Chinese influence is called the Sinosphere (and bamboo something for their holds in ASEAN) and it projects downwards, not upwards into the desolate nothingness that is Siberia.

The difference is that China is extremely efficient at population and media control. A thousand dead in a massacre? "Flu epidemic". Rebels broadcasting the news on the Internet? "Transfer interrupted". "Tribal leaders uniting in support of the new Chinese aid" Every oldest son of every tribal leader on extended vacation at govt holiday facility twenty floors beneath Beijing. I'm not saying the Chinese are the best at anything but they certainly have done well at copying everything CIA, NSA and FSB ever did then threw in the heart of Stalin and the mind of Mao into the bowl as well.

There you go thinking Afghans think like westerners again. There is no loyalty to the bosses, there is no interest in working 8 hour days and there is no govt that keep things in order. And there certainly isn't anyone interested in helping western companies earn money.

But hey, prove me wrong. Mention some western companies that are thriving in Afghanistan and I will study them with interest. Just pick some company where the workers aren't all guest workers.

>be chinese
>prove subpar intelligence by making the same mistake as russians and americans
also, im partial to the meme post >U.S will ever leave

>cause we're in too deep

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It was probably true to some degree, back when Russia were the invaders and CIA were helping Bin Laden and the Mujahedeen. The opium was providing a way to finance the rebel forces and CIA sure as hell was not taking that tool out of the Mujahedeen hands, not to mention that American support would have been pushed away. After USA invaded themselves, they probably went after their old allies and used the old intel to crush them. Which is totally not helping to win the common Afghans heart, mind and wallet - so probably the US forces are still kinda selectice about which opium shipments they will hit and which they will turn their eyes off.

This is retarded and ignores Islam's influence on culture. No way Afghanis will allow atheist Chinese to operate peacefully in the country. Americans were soft as hell on them, didn't even stop the boy loving or abuse of women, built infrastructure, all kinds of "nice" stuff. You have to be ignorant as hell about Islam to think they will willingly allow that shit.
As for Chinese doing genocide, look at their Northwest region concentration camps, and what they did to Tibet and you already know this is just not true.
The Chinese are far less concerned about the great nigger religion of Islam than stupid leftists here.
There is one way to deal with uppity muslims; The way Stalin did and the way Myanmar and China do now.

Taliban at its very start were running with a message of fighting corruption, dishonesty, drugs and infidels. By now, the only thing they fight is anyone threatening their control of the income in the areas they hold. Whatever originial ideals they had were ruined by the fact that Afghans will change loyalties (outside their tribal ones) ten times more often than they change their underwear. So your stalwarth proud village could be fighting Taliban this week and next week they could BE the Taliban. Woops.

Bullshit.
The US did Japan and it worked. Other than that no Western power has tried it because of "muh geneva".
Turkey did it successfully as well, as have most Muslim countries.
Genocide works, but you need to not give a fuck and be willing to wioe out whole cities.

Blame the Westerners, couldn't be the shitty Islamic religion that has been constantly fighting everyone since the 7th and 8th century.
Shia/Sunni/etc.
Read a book moron. That 60s post modernist anti western bullshit is just wrong. Muslims all think the world belongs to their brand of Islam, even over other brands of Islam. They never, and will never, be at peace with anyone.
I wish mf would read about the Barabary pirates, Seiges of Vienna, the occupation of Spain, the Coptics, the Armenians, and the Battle of Tours.
Its not because of Western anything, this shit started from Muhammed, Ali, and Umar and won't end until you kill them all, or they win.

Agreed 100%

>There you go thinking Afghans think like westerners again. There is no loyalty to the bosses, there is no interest in working 8 hour days and there is no govt that keep things in order.

That's pretty normal in a country that's been a barren hellhole for several decades by now.
Have you never seen or read about Vietnam towards the end of the Vietnam War?
All the factories bombed, all the children out of school and learning how to shank people. Full of thugs, bribery, illegal operations, etc.
And if you've ever met a single Vietnamese person in your life, you know very well just how ridiculously hard-working they can be. There is simply no place for that when every walk you take could end up with you vaporised by an explosion or ripped to shreds by a stray bullet.

It's cliche at this point but feel free to look up Afghanistan during it's golden age before the US and USSR started spitroasting it. It was no paradise but it was a perfectly functional country with regular industries, emplyment and all you would expect out of a typical civilisation.

>muh fox news
At first it was hilarious, but now it's just tiresome, that there are still people that think it matters in anyway. All these major news corps lie as a base model. Fox is just controlled opposition.

On the Vietnam thing, unless you’re meeting that person in Vietnam, odds are they’re a descendant of the hard working middle and upper classes of the country that left to escape communism. Funnily enough, that general that’s in that famous picture of the VC spy being executed spent the rest of his life running a deli in LA.

>On the Vietnam thing, unless you’re meeting that person in Vietnam, odds are they’re a descendant of the hard working middle and upper classes of the country that left to escape communism.

I live in a post-Socialist country, mate. The Vietnamese here have been a staple for decades (i.e. long before the fall of communism, in fact, it was the communists who sent them over here) and they still travel back every year to celebrate Chinese New Year back home.

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>cause we're in too deep
Based Sum41 poster.

youtube.com/watch?v=emGri7i8Y2Y

>(C) 2001 The Island Def Jam Music Group
>2001
>18 years ago
Wew, feels like yesterday. Time flies.

>hands-off approach
When has China ever done this when they sought to acquire something they wanted? China has all the tools to succeed in Afghanistan where Russia and the US failed.

>2001 was 72 years ago

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