I keep seeing 10mm pushed all around this board. Is the 9mm especially weak?
9mm?
Jaxson Lee
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Colton Miller
Perhaps if the only thing you carry is ball ammunition
Aaron Fisher
One 9mm was enough to stop Trayvon, so no.
Andrew Morgan
And that's because it pokes a hole 1mm smaller?
Evan Mitchell
The permanent cavity meme has to die already
Logan Wood
9mm is adequate for most self defense use because you get a good mix of capacity and decent power. Sub compacts in 9mm are decently shootable and are good enough to defend yourself from human attackers, dogs, smaller hogs, ect. Since some people are shit shots or they use underpowered ammo and its commonality, it looks somewhat anemic. With the right ammo 9mm is good enough for most non-armored human and medium/small game defense. 10mm gives you a massive jump in power with a negligible hit to capacity (17 rounds of 9mm vs 15 rounds of 10mm in the same size Glock frame). It has enough power to take down some bears and would easily stop most humanoid targets, but the power and kick is too much for some people. 10mm is a really powerful round that I plan on owning myself, but with how it kicks for some it didn't see a wide adoption (also there was only like 2 good 10mm guns when it was starting to get adopted and they were dumb expensive).
Christian Bennett
Samuel Lee
No. Look at ballistic gel testing and understand what certain depths of penetration are related to in real life (namely vital organs being around 12-16").
A 9x19 Nato ball in 1mm smaller than a 10mm fmj load and both crush a hole with respect to that diameter. Both will go through both sides of a man and weight has no effect on on the crushing damage caused along the penetration.
The advantage 10mm has is mostly when dealing with threats of wild animals where youd want even more penetration than what it takes to kill a man. 10mm would go through a couple of men versus 9mm going through 1-2 BUT if there were two equally trained men fighting humans, the guy with 9mm would be able to fire more rounds more accurately in the same amount of time and most likely be more effective because of it.
When discussing JHP bullets, a 10mm might also be able to expand to slightly greater diameter but a 9mm is still plenty effective.
Bentley Miller
Now when it comes to bears, what's the difference between 10mm hardball and hollow points?
Brayden Hall
Your post reads like a weapons guide from XboxAhoy!
Parker Gutierrez
Nice pasta, saved
Ethan Morales
know that having an expanding bullet will reduce your penetration and different one more so than others. You decide with what adequate penetration is since theres less studies on how much is ideal for bear.
A lot of people do the heaviest fmj or hard lead they can find but some type of jhp might be better. I dont know.
Brayden Ortiz
Question about 10mm. It seems to be really popular in 1911 models like the Colt Delta Elite, Springfield TRP, and Ruger SR1911. Is there something inherent about the 1911 that makes it handle 10mm well? Or is it just a general lack of handguns on the market that accept the cartridge.
Jacob Adams
Ubiquity of the 1911 and its simplicity in action makes it easier to chamber in meme calibers. 10mm is a meme caliber
>inb4 screeching 10mm defenders
The fact is, you want a 10mm gun you're getting a glock or q special snowflake 1911. Why? Cause glock pushed a 10mm back in the day, and the 1911 is easy to up or downchmaber due to its mechanics.
Ian Fisher
I think it has to do with the heavy weight of a metal framed gun in soaking up recoil. Also, 1911s have slim grips because of their single stack magazines. This allows the shooter to grip more gun. The beaver tail also helps in gripping higher for a lower bore axis.
Jeremiah King
Shot placement is everything.
Jaxon Cook
You gotta choose the right ammo, user!
Gel testing is great, but cops shoot people for a living. Why not use what works best for them?
tactical-life.com
>For many years, the “Illinois State Police load” – a 115-grain standard JHP launched at some 1,300 feet per second (fps) – proved itself to be the most decisive man-stopper available. It still works great. Federal’s version of this load, the 9BPLE, is standard issue for the DeKalb County lawmen, on the tough turf that surrounds and encompasses of Atlanta, Georgia.
These guys get into so many firefights that they’ve drawn political heat for “shooting too many people.” They have proven that when they shoot people with a 115-grain JHP doing 1,300 fps out of their issue Beretta service pistols, the bad guys go down and stop trying to kill them.
Other loadings have emerged that have the same decisive stopping power in 9mm. They include Winchester’s 127-grain Ranger series +P+ at 1,250 fps, and Speer’s Gold Dot 124-grain +P at the same velocity. Chicago PD switched to the 124-grain +P after multiple dismal stopping failures with 147-grain subsonic, and NYPD has used this round with great effect for some 15 years. Both are delighted with it. Orlando cops are issued P226 SIGs and 127-grain +P+ Winchester, and after many shootings since, they’ve found it to be as effective as any handgun caliber could be.
Nolan Fisher
>Still, the faster bullets seem to be the way to go. There is much more corollary tissue damage around the wound channels with the faster 9mms, with medical examiners documenting “macerated” flesh, that is, tissue chopped up like burrito filling. You don’t see that with subsonic rounds, even though a high-tech modern 147-grain may actually expand slightly more than a lighter 9mm bullet, simply because it has “more lead to spread.”
"Chopped up burrito filling" Neat. The faster bullets seem to be the way to go. 147 grain BTFO.
tactical-life.com
Joshua Williams
>unironically posting cuckok45
You have to go back
Landon Carter
He's not a cuck though
Jaxon Ramirez
how is he not a cuck?
William Ramirez
His spergout about seeing the bars and stars was kinda lame
Chase Cooper
He's a boomer. The generation that has had the easiest life in all of human history. He's objectively an entitled pussy faggot.
Dylan Carter
>being such a newfaggot that you post Ayoob in the year of our Lord 2019
The guy is full of shit, bases his opinions on literally nothing, and has perjured himself in court at least a few times in major cases.
People have been using subsonic 9mm, .40, and .45 for decades. They kill people dead without issue. It always comes down to shot placement, penetration depth, what structures within the body are actually struck.
Super light 115gr projectiles are not somehow magically different from 147gr projectiles.
>supported bump stock ban
>pissed off his own audience
>tried to walk it back and do damage control
>gave vocal support for some other gun control shit after that
Fuck this dumb Boomer and fuck his stupid kid too. Everyone on youtube is scum.
Nathan Rivera
hickok is genuine. I think what he is doing is smart enough to be honest. He is advertising that NRA membership but he knows the NRA is a bunch of shit and he says it all the time "Now you don't have to agree with the NRA and I personally don't agree with a lot of their decisions" but the NRA is one of the big bois fighting for your gun rights in the US. Even if they are a bunch of assholes, at least they can agree with Jow Forums on one thing - that gun ownership and the right to self defense are fundamental and absolutely necessary.
Joseph Wright
>What is burden of proof?
How are you not a rapist?
Matthew Gray
Don't rape shame me, bigot.
Ian Lewis
Didn't know all that shit. But if you read the article, he didn't say slower bullets suck, just that faster bullets seem to work better.
>They kill people dead without issue.
It really depends on shot placement and the resolve of the criminal. On average, only two shots is necessary to take incapacitate someone. This is mostly associated with the shock of being shot.
Hardened criminals with the "they'll never take me alive" mentality may be tough to take down. Case in point:
policeone.com
>Officer Timothy Grammins shoots mirderous suspect with 14 rounds of 230 grain Speer Gold Dots.
>6 of those shots hit supposed vital areas. He eventually shot him in the head.
>Switches primary duty weapon from Glock 21 to Glock 19.
>45AARP BTFO.
Cameron Gomez
If it's +p+, it's arguably not even 9mm anymore.
Blake Ramirez
>10mm is a really powerful round that I plan on owning myself
The best part. Well done.
Colton Clark
>shoot a guy like 17 damn times before he stays down
>he shot two pistols dry trying to kill you
>doesn't have the good sense to die in the street
>doctor blames you for being too aggressive
Yep that about does it
Josiah Roberts
His son even admitted to concealed carrying a Glock 21 lmao. These guys are fucking retard cucks.
Alexander Rogers
Against large game, individuals on certain psychoactive substances, hard barriers, body armor, and targets at long distance? Yes. Its underpowered.
Against some dindu 7 yards away wearing basketball shorts and a hoodie? No. But make sure to use premium hollowpoints anyways.
Easton Mitchell
>is a boomer
>has .45 in his name
Like clockwork.
He needs to kill himself.
Adrian Campbell
9mm fags will be seething at this post.
Hudson Sanchez
Fuck civ nats are cringe.
Jaxon Adams
10mm straight up has twice the crush cavity of 9mm.
Lincoln Collins
Conversely most 10mm pistols that have had major issues have been 1911's - because it turns out metals get stress fractures.
There was that whole long period of time, post height of 10mm, post Star Megastar era, where the EAA Witness and the Glock 20/29 were the only real 10mm competition.
The wonderfinish lower tier metal EAA's had cracking issues - generally when not properly resprung,The elites faired better, but then the Witness Poly came out.
Most of the 10mm community came to the conclusion that the cartridge is best served in polymer frame handguns during this time.
Wyatt Walker
To be fair his kid did not support the bump stock ban, and you can't reasonably expect him to disavow his dumb daddy, because the alternative is dumb boomer dad donating all the land to "charity" or some other faggot shit like selling and RV retirement.
Juan Murphy
The effective differences between any two commonly-compared calibers are universally too small to matter in any real-world use.
Brody Torres
People with some money to burn want to obliterate what they're shooting at
Adrian Ross
He's a NRA mouthpiece, he just realizes his viewerbase has an axe to grind with NRAcucks so he's mediating. When is the last time he's endorsed the GOA or the SAF?
I literally cannot remember
William Watson
9mm NATO penetrates like 29 inches of gel
10mm goes through 70+ from a subcompact
Dominic Thomas
1911 owners who want a different caliber look down on alternatives that are seen as weaker and smaller. 10mm is one of the ammo that is considered a worthy alternative to the .45acp thanks to its greater power.
Kayden Wright
>cops shoot people for a living
Aiden Stewart
9mm is fine. 10mm is just stronker.
I carry a glock 20 10mm because i live in bear and moose country. I dunno why you weirdos carry 10mm when all you have to worry about is tyrone.
Elijah Long
Faster bullets seem to be the way to go?
Well, '+p+' 10mm can throw 135 grain jhps at 1800--1900, or 60 grains at 2600 fps
Andrew Hill
Juiced up tyrone will take more bullets to fell than a bear, but probably not a moose. I'd rather run into a mother grizzly than a moose bull. Fuck those things.
Austin Robinson
How's this gun for cc? Unironically.
Christopher Gomez
Should a switched to 10mm after that shit
Elijah Jones
i'd only consider the heaviest, hardest fmj i could find for bears.
Easton White
9mm is fine, especially if you don’t expect any encounters with large animals.
If i need anything more i’d grab a rifle.
James Murphy
If it doesn't die immediately with 9mm shoot it again problem solved
Logan Young
I've only heard about frame cracking issues with the first gen Colt Delta Elite and Bren Ten. Probably cheap cast frame ones, too, but the 2nd gen Delta Elite and 1911s at the Springfield level and above brands should be fine. I would have thought Rock Islands would have issues, but I haven't read any issues with those or the other aforementioned brands yet.
Ryan James
Probably would be fine in a vertical shoulder holster. Seems too long for any other types of carry.
Joshua Stewart
Hickock is a paid NRA spokes person.
Hudson Rogers
>the crush cavity
>not tearing with the power of fluid dynamics
Dominic Turner
>I've only heard about frame cracking issues with the first gen Colt Delta Elite and Bren Ten...
You forget the OG S&W 10mm third gens?
The Rock Island 10mm's have had issues.
Alot of 10mm 1911 makers got smart and started using stronger frame materials/a thicker frame instead of just a normal .45 frame, and also recommended respringing for shooting hot shit, or properly sprung the gun in the mid range, but some of these guns still have issues with slide cracking - a notable exception is the STI guns, they have beefed up slides and frames
While I trust the STI's the only metal frame gun that truly "got" the 10mm from the get go was the Star Megastar - it was heavy, big, and sexy - Star knew exactly the kind of power 10mm can throw
Liam Cruz
10mm is just .40+P
.40 is just 10mm cut down to fit a 9mm frame. The bullet tips are always flat to help it fit that grip size.
Personally I wouldn't invest in 10mm. It requires a big ass frame and it's expensive for marginally better performance than modern .40 loads. .357 sig is also a good option. Both with fuck up a bear, shit even 9mm has documented cases of killing big boi coastal grizzlies.
If grizzly defense is a serious concern for you, and you refuse to carry a rifle innawoods, 10mm might be a good option for you in that case. Can't think of any other reason or animal that would justify spending all the extra money, and like I said even 9mm with put one down.
Ryder Murphy
>Juiced up tyrone will take more bullets to fell than a bear,
Black bear maybe. Grizzly? No fucking way. Either fuck-huge coastal or slightly more diminutive mountain grizzly can absorb some shots in an adrenaline frenzied charged. Both require that you physically disable them, so im going to go out on a limb and say bear have a more resilient physiology.
I agree about moose though, those fuckers will just stand in one spot not making any movement or noise until you practically walk right into them, its hard to see them when there legs blend in with spruce trunks and their bodies are masked by the spruce foliage. if you did get close they'd stomp your guts out and that's a BULL moose not in rut mind you.
A cow with a calf will chase you down for squinting at her baby and if its winter and the snow is deep you are super fucked because they just sprint right through it.
Moose are dangerous fuckers.
Tyler Johnson
10mm is anything but common
Dominic Lewis
That was with 80s metallurgy
Hudson Parker
All pistol calibers are weak. Doesn't matter which you shoot with, you're going to mag dump.
Justin Brown
I EDC mine in a carry shirt that I got given to me as a gift. Totally dissapears.
Liam Murphy
Hardcast seems better
The Danish tried this against polar bears a few times with 9mm pistols. They switched to 10mm very quickly.
Sebastian Parker
What issues do 10mm RIAs have?
Julian Carter
Its .40 +++p+++
.40 throws a 135 grain nosler at 1400 fps, max 10mm throws the same bullet at 1600-1800 fps.
Gavin Price
This is what i carry. Can confirm its the shit.
Austin Watson
10 millimemer KING of Kartridges
David Flores
>even 9mm has documented cases of killing big boi coastal grizzlies.
A single case, by some elder God tier fudd who is an autistic savant at killing shit with a handgun, using +p+ max weight 9mm hardcast, and he used every bullet in the magazine but one before the bear stopped.
Thomas Evans
What kind of concealed carry shirt?
Something like this?
youtube.com
Owen Taylor
fuck..this makes me wanna just get a .40SW
Ryan Harris
Such an underrated round. Gets so much hate on Jow Forums
Dylan Long
Nuclear 10mm is comparable to an intermediate rifle round from an sbr
Evan Ward
10mm 100gr Lehigh XDs beg to differ
Dylan Mitchell
shot placement is king
t. hunter
Benjamin Torres
Get a glock 29 and the raven concealment vanguard 2 advanced holster.
Camden Bailey
>76 replies
Years later and this fucking board still can’t resist feeding trolls
>Miami shootout catastrophe blamed on insufficient stopping power of 9mm
>FBI wanted 10mm
>realizing it was shit for personal defense for its agents, loaded down to .40 S&W
>supposedly the perfect cartridge
>adopted by LEOs and civilians
>decades later
>FBI returns to 9mm citing that it’s the prime cartridge due to ease of controllability allowing for more accuracy and quicker follow up shots and advancements in bullet tech making it up to snuff
>hurr 9mm weak
Get a 9mm, practice with it until you’re Hathcock with a pistol, end of story
Leo Rogers
i thought zimmerman used a keltec p32 in 32 auto?
Xavier Ramirez
The fuck did you get that information
Nolan Murphy
Is 45 super more or less meme than 10mm?
Isaac Allen
>MFW some nig copypasta'd my autistic ass rambling bout shit
Well thanks i guess. Pic related, you could reasonably expect a considerably larger area of disruption in any organs and slightly more in any actively perfused muscle tissue as opposed to 2 week dead and specifically bled/drained muscle tissue.
Jackson Walker
>realizing it was shit for personal defense for its agents
Translation
>Realizing its agents were a bunch of faggots with limp wrists and baby hands, cut it down to Short & Weak
Jaxson Thomas
I've seen the girl for 10mm, but not .45 super. so I would say that the 10mm has been in more memes. I'd take the 10mm since it seems more available and because of Fallout. Oh yeah. Being in Fallout makes for an extra meme since Fallout is one of the most meme'd games right now.
Gabriel Wood
What's funny is it's like the weakest pistol in Fallout
Brandon Reyes
Their 10mm guns' front sights are all fiber optic.
Justin Johnson
blackhawk.com
I've carried my 8 inch 500 in this thing once
Benjamin Gomez
Pathetic samefag
Nolan Rivera
Take the police trade in .40 pill
Elijah Hill
Jacob Powell
>getting this heated over tiny hole punching pistol calibers
If you're gonna carry a gun innawoods for large animal defense get a .44 revolver instead of arguing diminishing returns in semi-auto calibers.
Asher Bennett
Just like the rest of the populous. Many hits with a smaller caliber > some misses with a larger caliber
Aiden Sanders
I love my 9mm, but unless I could put one right in the brain I would not trust it versus a polar bear. To be honest, 10mm or even .500 S&W would not make me feel much better.
Adrian Powell
Primarily slide cracking, they may have switched the 10mm frames since then, from forged to cast
John Johnson
Kevin Butler
FBI niggers arent as smart as you think they are.
Jack Jones
Its shit
Kevin Rogers
>birdshot penetrates skin maybe 1 inch
>could potentially be useful with solid slugs
This is absolutely retarded and pulled from the writer's ass. See youtube.com
Michael Brown
>
i thought i saw a pic of his gun in a news article maybe i misremembered
Gavin Watson
>smaller hogs