Hi Jow Forums, wannabe gun designer here. I've been working on a PCC design and want to know if it has any market appeal.
>Form factor of an M1 Carbine >.357 Mag as the main chambering >Gas delayed blowback >Takedown >When caliber conversions are released, they're mostly other large bore pistol cartridges like .44 Magnum and 10mm
I think it would make a pretty good truck gun if you put a folding stock on it... But you know, $500 ARs. Assuming it's affordable and doesn't suck, would you fuckers buy one?
Make .357 into 45-70 and you have a winner on your hands.
Brandon Butler
You're directly competing with the Ruger 44, which is out of production but still easily available, I mean I guess you could go smaller and lighter and try to appeal to the tactical crowd but idk
John Kelly
>wannabe gun designer here
Have you made a magazine that can feed .357 Magnum? How will you deal with stepping up the magwell to .44 Magnum and 10mm? How many rounds does it hold? Have you worked out any dimensions for the bolt or gas system?
Just specifying a list of features for a gun doesn't make you a designer any more than doing so for a piece of software makes you a developer.
Liam Ross
You want to make some money? You want a product with ZERO competition on the market? Make a Webley clone in 38spl or 357 if you can keep the price down and still handle the pressure. And yes you can make a 357 top break as anderson wheeler's stupid exclusive(and expensive) webley clone proves.
If you could do this, make a serviceable gun and keep the price under $800 you'd sell quite a few I think. I've been trying to meme Armscor into doing this but no luck so far. If you wanna help me out send this gentlemen a nice email requesting a webley clone:
Phillip Barnes, Manager of Customer Service Email: [email protected]
If you wanted something easier for modern mfg tech something aluminum/steel/polymer like Ruger's LCRx but as a top break would be unique enough to stand out on the market. The more cyberpunk you make it look the more memelords will be lining up to buy it from you. Make it in 9mm with moon clips and it would be the fastest reloading revolver on the CC market with the spring-loaded auto eject and fast moon clip loading....
Did this actually work with the Hudson H9, though? That gun looked pretty cyberpunk (who knows, maybe it'll be featured in a future Cowboy Bebop kind of anime) but the company still went bankrupt making it.
Easton Ramirez
They were selling guns and had a dedicated group of customers. It seems like they were just bad at business which is a common theme with the entire history of gun manufacturing. I think the way for someone brand new to break into the game is to sell on an individual order basis and dump any profits back into the company until you can run up full serial production. People shit on Kel-tec for not making enough product and general shenanigans of staying small time but the dude has ZERO debt and makes enough money to fuck around designing and making whatever he wants.
Lucas Hernandez
And Kimber's K6 and that shitty Chiappa Rhino are proof that there is still some market share out there for someone with an interesting wheelgun design.
True, but both Kimber and Chiappa built their entire brand and capital on much more established and boring designs: the former with the Boomer 1911 market, the latter with good repros of single-action revolvers, and shitty 22 versions of centerfire guns like the M1 Carbine and 1911.
Luke Roberts
That's my problem. My idea is too tactical for Fudds, and not tactical enough for mall ninjas.
I get what you mean. I'm a 2nd year engineering student so it's not like I can design and build something from scratch right now, but I can definitely work out a few equations and make some CAD drawings. I haven't designed a magazine yet, but I know the problems that come from feeding rimmed cartridges. A 10 round single stack would be fine for hunting, and if you want to go high cap, the Kel-Tec PMR-30 has a pretty neat solution. My hypothetical carbine's hypothetical magwell could be swapped out when the weapon is field stripped. I've been reading through George Chinn's The Machine Gun and the Gerard Metral's diy smg book. Interesting stuff.
Heh. Trigun, now that was an anime.
Jordan Stewart
Hey bro glad to know you haven't given up. Emailed him once before, but fuck it, I'll make a burner email and send one again just because you're still out here keeping up the good fight
Carson Gray
Coonan makes a 1911 that feeds 357. Been done befo, but can definitely be adapted to a rifle
Jackson Rogers
Nice digits. If dubs we get a nice, affordable top break revolver to kick off the roaring twenties.
In the 1960's Universal made an M1 Carbine variant called the 'Ferret' in .256 Winchester Magnum (.357 Mag necked down to .25). A .357 should be possible, but magazine capacity would be limited due to the rimmed cartridge.
are there any long barrel versions of that firearm?
Angel Richardson
and are there any that have been rechambered to fire american pistol rounds?
Hudson Peterson
It's unobtanium chambered in any round
Lucas Roberts
You should make it in 9mm and call it the Ruger pcc
Gabriel Morgan
>PCCs in the age of not-SBRs
I just don't get it.
Caleb Jackson
does no one make fake versions?
Alexander Scott
>ruger comes out with the deerslayer again as a takedown mag fed .44 and .357 >REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE - you
if you want to make something interesting, make a swappable upper semi auto free floated hunting rifle. An Ares SCR style AR10 would be a much better use of your time
a sub MOA .270 and .308 mag fed hunting rifle for under $1000 would be awesome and flex on the rest of that market where Browning BARs are fucking 4moa rifles for 2 grand.
So here are some problems I see straight away with this idea >.357 Magnum Just about anyone who wants a gun in .357 Magnum also wants it to take .38 Special. With manual actions that isn't a problem, but with an automatic you need to somehow get a system going that works with both. >Gas delayed blowback Theoretically this would be one of the better operating systems to use both .38 and .357, but it's going to also add plenty of weight. Bear in mind, you're not just paying for production of the rifle. You're paying for R&D of the rifle, the tooling, and even the production of the tooling. You're also competing in a saturated market and many banks will turn you down straight away because most startup gun companies that focus on bringing a new gun to the market fail. I like the concept and would love a semi-auto .357 rifle, but you're going to have to jump through a lot of hoops to even get off the ground.
Brandon Garcia
I'm kind of a retard, but I think that a gas-delayed blowback action could work with both, since it self-adjusts based on pressure. I've actually been sketching a system that would pressurize sooner and scale up better than the P7s, meaning that I can get away with using a lighter bolt. Business wise, my plan is to build a prototype that works well enough that I can sell the design to an established company, or at least get some investors. You are right about the market though, it's so saturated that you HAVE to do make something different - which limits your customer base.
Good idea, but why not just get an AR10 then? Remington makes one in .270 IIRC.
The reason I decided on .357 mag is that it really reaches its' potential when fired from a carbine. Same with 44 Mag and 10mm, really. 357 Magnum ballistics from a 16" barrel are nothing to sneeze at for both hunting and self defense (where the low sight height comes in handy). Combine the short action with a takedown mechanism or a folding stock and you have a freakishly handy, useful package. Of course, you know what else is freakishly handy and useful? An AR with a pistol brace.
Also chicks dig M1 carbines for some reason.
Sebastian Brooks
>.357 and 10mm and .44 later Use Deagle mags for the revolver cartridges and maybe 1911 mags for best millimetre
Sebastian Reed
I'd love this (I don't care much for the take down aspect either way).
Since kel-tec came up with a practical solution for rimlock and standard size magazines I am waiting for them to release a mag fed .357 semi-auto.
David Kelly
It sounds neat, the .44 Mag Ruger carbines seem really cool. The biggest thing would be if you can get an autoloader to work reliably with a rimmed cartridge like .357 or .44.
Landon Robinson
I'd love you too, no homo. Maybe my gun is their .357 semi. Kel-Tec makes weird guns, I'm designing a weird gun. George Kellgren seems like a cool dude.
Ryder Brooks
Sell me a 45 pcc with an adjustable/collapsable metal stock that can pivot and fold in either direction with a receiver that can take 1911 mags or glock mags by pulling a lever that adjusts the magwell to fit the size. Wooden hand guards and steel frame with embedded sights.
Christian Long
Honestly just make it in 357 sig to avoid the feeding issues, like another user said half the appeal of shooting 357 mag is shooting 38 as well.
Grayson Anderson
I know this is for California. But fuck me, this screams sex to me for some reason.
Too bad jesse james is a massive bootlicker faggot.
Nicholas King
They announced the aluminum framed hudson before they were even able to deliver on it. There's a term for it somewhere, same thing happened to some computer company in the 90s I think. They fucked themselves nicely
Luke Johnson
Can you get these from someone not Jesse James?
Robert Rogers
>he doesn't have a truck gun >he doesn't have a truck >he doesn't live in a part of america where you can leave loaded firearms in your truck without worrying about roody-poos
the same meme you're relying on with the M1 carbine angle, but not for people in their 70's
the SCR style firearm is pure sex regarding it's lines.
a modular AR10 upper based design gives you the freedom to design a gun to take pretty much every medium action length round possible off of one platform. Better yet because of the increased action size make it work with AR15/AR10 drop in trigger groups, something the Ares ACR doesn't do.
Jaxson Gray
You want Aesthetics? Get one of those brownells retro ar10s. More aesthetic than any fudd gat could ever be
Jaxson Murphy
you're also competing with the Mini-14 which is kind of EXACTLY the space you're in.
I feel you user, I love the Deerhunter .44 and the Mini-14, but you're late to a market that doesn't really exist anymore.
Henry Martin
THIS AND FOLLOW IT UP WITH A LEMAT IN MODERN COMMON CALIBERS!!!!!!!
Nicholas Powell
thta's dumb the fucking Bronwells Portuguese contract ones are Sex.
the wood + SCR = tiny man is now big man territoriy.
The consensus that I've seen is they went out of business because they announced the aluminum one too soon and the sales of the steel model tanked, cutting off their income.
I'm getting a Rhino. Not today, probably not tomorrow, but I'm getting one.
Lucas Baker
What fucking handgaurd is that its beautiful
David Ramirez
Is this the do/k/ument? Nice.
>you're late to a market that doesn't really exist anymore.
Yeah. I'm still going to build one and try to licence the design, but I know that it's not gonna be a game changer. One that has in fact, neva been done befo, but not a game changer. I'm already working out some equations to figure out gas port placement and the like.
>41494155 Not much, to be honest.
Colton Gomez
No it's just a bunch of files I collected over the span of about 15 years. Some of them are probably in the do/k/ument though
Eli Wood
>I'm still going to build one and try to licence the design >license the design >gas blowback action >single stack magazines to deal with rimlock the stone axe way >license the design
you're making pic related but shittier buddy. The garand style action .44mag hunting rifle exists and is out of production because anyone who wants one has one. >make the AR10 upper based hunting rifle for maximum fudd
I want a custom break-action shotgun, with a non-rifled barrel, 18 inches in length, open to an interior diameter of 1 inch. No sights. Stainless steel. I want the chamber to be 5 inches.
I will machine my own casings from solid brass. I intend to launch 40-50 pellets of double ought buck at 1500-1600+fps.
The centerpiece of this build, and what makes it possible, is that it will be built on a hydraulic recoil reduction stock (Why not just use the Tac50-A1 from McMillanUSA).
Roast me all you want, and yes, I know that a 18 inch barrel will not give my pellets as much velocity as a 24 inch barrel. I'll make up for it in powder. Yes, I know I'm stupid. But I have disposable income - and I want my home defense incident to make the national news.
I need a builder.
Hunter Ramirez
duh fuck does the BCG go when you pull the trigger part.
I want one of these so badly, but the triggers are TERRIBLE, and you can't upgrade them since they're not standard AR trigger groups.
Justin Clark
That's not really a fuckin pcc man Honestly .357 sig, .357 sig glock mags, take down, long stroke gas piston and you got my money
Lucas Jackson
>license the action design >upscale it to an AR10 lower >design it around taking drop in AR15/10 trigger groups utilizing the larger action size >offer it in .308, .243, .270 >have a magwell adapter to let it take AR15 mags with different bolt options to swap over to 5.56, 300memeout, and .500 beowulf
why this does not exist I have no fucking idea. traditional stocks work excellently for hunting and target shooting. A gun like this would rape everything from coyotes to elk with nothing but an upper swap.
Isaiah Reyes
The geometry wouldnt allow lockup with both 5.56 and .308 magazines. You'd need a different lower/upper/bolt/barrel for them since the magazine catches are at different heights and the cartridges have different lengths.
The only reason .300blk is a simple upper swap is because the cartridge was specifically designed to use 5.56 magazines and lowers.
Juan Sanchez
what part of magwell adapter and different bcgs didn't you understand. obviously an entirely new upper would be necessary for a caliber conversion, just like with any AR
Jaxon Brooks
ya lost me at m1 carbine. sorry, no thanks.
Jacob Miller
How about an AR15/Daewoo K2 hybrid? A long stroke gas piston upper with the integrated sights and a low profile top rail. It takes an AR Lower so that regular AR trigger groups and controls can be used, and instead of a buffer tube you can do a type of folding stock.
Because the Daewoo is comfy, and some people have a boner for AR piston systems?
Hudson Walker
PWS does it and they're great.
Evan Reyes
yeah, I agree with the guys who say that this shit is said and done. Honestly just do some hella weird bootleg gun, make it stamped. Niggers, rednecks and most other poors will forever adore you as their lord and savior. Think about all the possibilities...
Jaxson Miller
>Niggers, rednecks and most other poors will forever adore you as their lord and savior An AR can be had for $350. You aren't making any stamped gun that cheap.
>1 inch diameter You're basically looking for an 18 inch 4 bore gun, no need for the custom shotgun shells. They used to be made as elephant guns and throw off a quarter pound of lead per shot.
Jaxson Rivera
That would be pretty cool if you did it like a modern SL Carbine. The SL6 carbine is one of my all time favorite rifles to shoot!
Liam Williams
Are you saying make a 45-70 necked down to a .357? That would actually be an interesting caliber.
Landon Wood
Drop in triggers won't work - it's too compact. If everything lines up with the BCG, you either won't be able to reach it from a traditional stock, or the bolt won't have enough travel.
Lincoln Lee
Ar15/AK hybrids have already been done to death and don't offer many improvements. Honestly, designing any sort of 5.56 rifle for today's market would be a waste of time. Convincing Daewoo to redesign the uppers so that they can be used with regular AR lowers is actually a good idea, though.
Angel Hill
>as part of product design codevelop a drop in trigger group with one of the timney bootleg companies >offer prorated factory target model that shaves $50 off the combined price
Anthony Anderson
>a magazine that can feed .357 Magnum >stepping up the magwell to .44 Magnum and 10mm Deagle mags are the obvious solution for .357, .44 and .50 AE, and being single-stack will probably work as-is or with minimal modification for 9mm Win Mag, 10mm Magnum, etc. Magwell inserts that go right in the deagle magwell (i.e. without the added bulk of the whole magwell being interchangeable) would easily allow it to accept 1911 mags (for 10mm/.45 etc.) and maybe Tokarev mags (for 7.62x25/9mm Mauser).
If at some point you need to introduce some meme caliber that doesn't fit existing mags, you can design a mag at that point, but the most popular calibers that you're gonna start with are all a solved problem.
Don't reinvent the wheel when you can steal your neighbor's wheel.
Nathaniel Howard
>born to late to enjoy cheap webleys and victory model smiths to bubba to my heart's content
Extra velocity. Wonder why so many leverguns come in .357?
Julian Lee
Anyone know what tool one might use to cut a pocket for a ball bearing on the inside of a barrel extension Cheaply I have two dead simple designs riding on that
Carson James
leverguns sure, but op looks like he wanted a semiauto mag
Eli Cox
I'm heading up north let me see if I can weasel my way into their hq
t. flip
Easton Ramirez
People love the idea of using the same ammo for handgun and longarm. At least a vocal group says they do. I think it's a dumb gimmick and sales figures seem to bear that out (.44-40 SAA was a lot less popular).
Angel Butler
Two things you could try. Cut a dove tail in the walls of the chamber, mill out the hole you need for the bearing on different stock, slide the two pieces of stock in to the chamber. Or something like a grinding ball bit for a dremel but much larger
James Thompson
pls explain your design
Kayden Foster
it sounds like he's either doing that straight pull rifle thing that forgotten weapons showcased or some bearing delayed blowback
