What’s the shelf-life of polymer firearms? Will they last 100 years as steel firearms before them have?
I’ve heard a lot of different things. Glocks are pushing 37 years, vp70s pushing 50, nylon 66s pushing 60 (though a 22 rifle doesn’t exert as much stress as a handgun.)
Gun rights may not be the same for our heirs. Would it be wise for me to invest in steel firearms just for that reason alone?
Anyone with more knowledge on polymers care to tune in?
Polymers are far more resistant to corrosion than metal alloys are. A polymer firearm will last way longer than a metallic firearm.
There are anecdotes of several gen 1 glock owners sending their glocks back to HQ, and glock techs advising them to replace the frame due to cracks. If this hinders the firearm unsafe to shoot is a different question
My main issue is the fact that polymer degrades with exposure to UV. Metal and wood does not.
Wood and metal instead degrade with exposure to OXYGEN AND WATER.
Good thing plastic is known for hyper fast biodegradability.
Easily preventable with oil. You can't prevent plastic from degrading from UV. There's no coating, no oil, nothing.
If you're going to be that much of a sperg about it literally coat every exposed plastic surface of your handgun in tape and be done with it
Leave a trashbag in the earth for 2 years (or have to clean up for fuckheads before you) and you'll realize how brittle plastic can get in a short amount of time. Now the polymer glock uses is no doubt resistant to such effects, but nonetheless uv damage is not about biodegradability but rather strength.
What are you talking about? There are additives for that AND coatings for UV blocking.
Polymers last for an extremely long time. There are also a huge myriad of types of polymer, just like there are a huge myriad of types of metals. The polymer formula for the glock frame is a trade secret and we don't know exactly what it's made of.
A couple points. One, polymer is quite strong for its weight due to its ability to flex. Two, the frame of a pistol does not undergo much stress at all, most of the pressure is exerted on the chamber, barrel, and slide, which are all steel on a glock. So, not only is polymer more than strong enough for use in a pistol frame, it doesn't undergo much stress anyways. As far as whether it will deteriorate or not, I frankly find that to be bullshit. Not only are some polymers capable of essentially never decaying, there are most likely compounds added to reinforce this, though I can't say for sure as I don't know what it's made of.
I have an engineering degree and specialize in materials. Although we don't necessarily study possible degradation over hundreds of years, I can guarantee you that if your polymer frame firearm is quality it will easily last your lifetime and most likely a lot longer than that.
That depends a lot on the type of polymer. Yes technically all polymers degrade when exposed but Glock's nylon 66 is very UV resistant because modern polymers are chemically designed to resist UV degredation. A glock will not disintegrate just because it was exposed to the sun, even over decades.
Which can be mitigated if maintained properly. We still have several firearms from the early 20th and even late 19th century still in working condition.
Thing is, It’s pretty hard to avoid UV radiation.
This isn’t a glock hate thread. My 19 is my favorite pistol, which i just so happen to shoot the best.
We don't know what Glock's polymer formula is but it is very close in chemical structure to that of DuPont Zytel, a glass-reinforced Nylon 66. There are proprietary stuff that can be done to change the structure and additives and preservatives and such. It will outlast you easily if it does not break due to physical pressures.
Carbon black is what’s added to glock frames to lessen the effects of IV degradation. After learning that it steered me away from FDE frames and the like.
>Thing is, It’s pretty hard to avoid UV radiation.
No, it's really easy.
>Don't leave it laying out in the sun.
>Don't open carry.
Done. Most any cover garment will absorb UV.
How often is your gun out in the sun just sitting around? Perhaps you leave it under a UV lamp hoping it will grow into a Glock tree?
Therein lies the rub. Polymer typically does not lose it’s shape after being compromised. Wonder if a glock shot 80 years from now will explode in a shooters hand.
Agreed. Carbon is one of the additives that makes Nylon/polyamides black and gives them a level of strength.
In 80 years, just print out another frame.
It’s a crap shoot. I know it’ll probably outlast me, or get close.
Just curious to think if they’ll be in working shape in centuries from now.
By that point we’ll have probably moved on to better technology.
Way things are going now, we probably won’t have our 2a and the government will be omniscient lol
Good point.
>Carbon Black
Wait, isn't that carcinogenic?
So besides increasing the risk of NDing into your leg, glocks also increase the risk for skin cancer?
Idk OP, if this guy can use the same plastic bag for 34 years. I think your glock will live longer than you.
>Wait, isn't that carcinogenic
Do you regularly ingest Glock frames?
They don't make the bags like they used to.
Stippling fumes
That's carcinogenic regardless of what plastic is burning.
>Stippling
Deserve it.
I’m willing to bet you inhaling gunsmoke at the range and driving on the interstate will expose you to more carcinogens than stippling a gloxk frame.
Unless you’re some weirdo that stipples multiple glock frames and gets high off the smoke.
Why can you retards not wrap your heads around the idea that the frame of a handgun does not contain the pressure of a fired round?
The frame flexes under recoil. If a plastic were to lose it’s plasticity if can crack, and maybe even shatter in years to come.
>stipples multiple glock frames and gets high off the smoke
that sounds like a vice news story meant to scare people
>people buying unregistered guns and using them to get high and shoot babies
Even if you leave your polymer handgun sitting in UV light all day every day, it will not penetrate beyond the very outer surface since the frames are opaque. Unlike steel handgun frames, they do not need to be babied, and will far outlast them. The parts you actually need to be worried about are the metal ones. Just a few years of exposure to humidity in a closet or something might be enough to ruin them.
Who cares? You won’t live 100 years.
If you're worried about that, you should be even more worried about metal handgun frames cracking merely from normal shooting. Since plastic handgun frames flex, they are resistant to these stresses, whereas metal handgun frames will fatigue and need to be replaced. This is something that happens NOW with high round counts whereas polymer handgun degradation is just speculation.
>steel frames need babying
Low-IQ Zoomer thread general?
>You can't prevent plastic from degrading from UV.
Yeah, you can. Just carry it under clothing or keep it in a safe.
>I have an engineering degree and specialize in materials
Last time you contributed to the thread, you claimed to be a master professor and invented the rubber tire. We all know you’re lying, so you might as well make your bullshit interesting.
Polymer frames can develop cracks as well with high round counts. But take for example, an average shooter that only shoots a few times a year. The steel frame handgun would last longer under these conditions than a polymer gun would, no?
I know it’s all speculation. It intrigues me to think if we’ll see polymer firearms dug up and used in conflicts like the WWI, WWII guns we see making cameos in conflicts in thrid-world shitholes.
lol so can steel and aluminum frames
That was a defective product
Does your gun safe have a sunroof? How is your gun getting exposed to UV?
his gun is a sexy bitch and tans on the reg
There are very few firearms 100 years old that are safe to fire most are just museum display pieces that are far too valuable to risk firing
I remember summers sitting under the shade of my father's Glock tree. Good, more simple times then.
Taken outdoors to the range, left by the window, cleaned in the backyard etc. It will invariably get exposed to UV one way or another.
These are all hypotheticals of course. We’ll shrivel up and die before our glocks do. It’s just a topic of discussion.
durakoat?
There are multiple videos on youtube of guys shooting 100+ year old 1911’s and smith and wesson 1905s.
>Taken outdoors to the range, left by the window, cleaned in the backyard etc. It will invariably get exposed to UV one way or another
So about 20 hours per year for the average gun owner? You have absolutely no idea how much exposure it takes to break down even low quality plastics.
You’re an idiot. I have several old Colt semi-autos from the early 1900s. All are perfectly safe to fire. I have no doubt that my Glocks will be just as safe to fire in 2119.
Iver johnson and H&R would like to have a word
How would one last longer than the other of the shooter barely uses either. Measuring longevity under 50,000 rounds is a fucking joke
Are you planning on leaving your gun outside for 100 years? IDK how much sunlight your guns get, but mine don't get a whole lot more than a couple hours a month generally.
Wood gets damaged by UV
It's pretty much irrelevant, you can 3D print Glock frames at this point and there's no way to stop people from making 3D printers at home (3D printers are very close to being able to print themselves)
3D printing technology will only improve with time, store the data needed to print a Glock frame somewhere for future generations.
>I have an engineering degree and specialize in materials. Although we don't necessarily study possible degradation over hundreds of years, I can guarantee you that if your polymer frame firearm is quality it will easily last your lifetime and most likely a lot longer than that.
i was thinking about specializing in materials engineering. what job do you do and hows the pay?
hello sub 25 year-old moron
>Gun rights may not be the same for our heirs.
>Would it be wise for me to invest in steel firearms just for that reason alone?
By the time guns are banned and you want to give your grandkids yours, they'll be able to print a new frame whenever they want. And probably a barrel. And literally everything but springs.
I have a LOT of 100+ year old guns. One is unsafe with modern loads.
>.38 black powder colt army revolver, dated 1901
Safe to fire.
>12 gauge double barrel, made in 1911
Safe to fire
>12 gauge double barrel "damascus" made in 190something
unsafe with smokeless powder
>1912 Luger
Safe to fire
>1917 produced Swedish Mauser, carbine
Safe to fire, still shoots sub-MOA, God bless 6.5x55
>m1917 Enfield
safe to fire
>k11
Safe to fire
list goes on and on I think the point is clear.
Also none of those are ludicrously expensive collectors pieces. The most expensive is the Luger, and it costs less than some ARs I own. I can go to the gun store tomorrow and go buy a five 100 year old rifles that are all in good working order. You're a moron.
> This is Hi-Point 9 mm
> This is my problem solver
> or keep it in a safe.
Fucking this. If you wanna see your guns living longer than you, putting it in big dry metal cube is the best way to make it.
Not under your bed (unless it's HD gun). Not on the shelf. Safe.
Ironically I work in finance, don't even use my degree really, except for the math. Got it cause my dad's friend hooked me up. 70k starting. My degree is in mech E, materials is simply a specialization, decided I wanted more money cause I'm a greedy bastard. Imo just get the engineering degree. If you have one a lot of people want you even outside the field; just pick something that interests you and finish it. I really enjoyed materials but there are other paths that are cool too. Specialization doesn't really matter as much as your actual degree when it comes to finding a job.
Not OP but a tangent
Do you guys think today's guns will be in much better condition in general in 100 years than 100 year old guns today? I think they will be, and a lot of them will look brand new. With finishes today like melonite and cerakote today's guns are remarkably more corrosion resistant than old guns.
A glock might still be safe to shoot in a 100 year but I wouldn't bet on it. Better be safe then sorry.
Buy a CZ75, or a Beretta 92 you keep well oiled and fire a couple of shots with it every 10 years with it and you get a gun that'll work in 100 years. Extra parts such as springs, firing pins, ejector/extractor, wooden grip panel as well as magazines should be kept with the gun. Extra locking block if you choose a beretta. Ammo, FMJs and HPs, from different brands (one brand might have less durable primers), should be stored both in sealed ammo cans and in plastic bags under vacuum. Put the gun, spare parts and ammo in a metal box you stash somewhere safe. If your finances allow it try to make 2 boxes (one buried, one kept hidden inside your home). Each time you take the gun out to fire it change out the ammo.
If you do follow this small guide well you should be able to still own a gun when you'll be 90+years and have something to pass down to your children and grand children.
Access to guns is a fundamental freedom which is going to be very, very hard to hold down during this century, in Europe as well as in the USA. Take measures to protect a few guns NOW while they're still relatively accessible. Gun rights are VERY easy to loose, t. eurofag. Good luck all.
You're a retard OP. Stop making these threads.
You can literally find a 100 year-old Mosin for $300
Assuming an AWB somehow doesn't get passed, even great grandpappy's PSA AR will probably still function fine in 100 years, assuming he actually cleaned and oiled it.
Wood is not getting damaged by UV?
>I used to relax and read, dream, and play among the limbs of the old glock tree.
>Those sweet Austrian summers when the hills were alive with the music of the season.
I miss that old glock tree. I love that old glock tree.
I have thought about the same thing and it does influence my gun purchases. Not much to be done for AR furniture, but I always buy black and keep most of my mags metal. My handguns are all steel and aluminum. I'm not saying a Glock will disintigrate in the safe during my lifetime, but no one knows how long they will last. I build my collection for posterity to use in hard times as well as for me to enjoy today. The idea that in the future my great, great granchildren will just buy another gun or print one doesn't seem likely. With the expansion of the surveilance state, the incremental, creeping nature of restrictive laws, the constant propaganda that turns people into traitorous cucks, our mass importation of multiple tribal peoples that hate us and each other, and the hatred of, and dedication to destroying, anything related to whites and western civilization by the heebs that control our government, the future looks bad. I'll place my bets on a bunch of properly stored metal firearms over some hypothetical future access to a 3D printer or the unproven long term stability of plastic polymer.
>Wait, isn't that carcinogenic?
Carbon black is literally soot. The black stuff on the inside of your candle snuffer? That's carbon black.
In all seriousness, how much UV exposure do you really think your gun is going to get? I mean it's going to be sitting inside the majority of its life and see maybe 20-40 hrs of sunlight per year. Unless you are storing it in a glass case on your roof I cannot fathom plastics decaying inside of a person's life span.
Wood also gets damaged by UV, but if you store your shit properly you won’t have to worry about that.
You can, very easily. It is called not leaving it out in direct sunlight for weeks on end in the middle of summer.
Absolutely retarded. Again, if you fucking store your shit properly and take care of if it will love you long time. Explain the fucking milsurp market if 100+ year old guns will spontaneously explode for being 100 years old.
Nobody knows. The earliest polymer handgun was made in the 70's, I think?
We know wood and steel lasts because we have the benefit of hindsight.
Not sure about aluminum. I have a S&W Model 12 from the 70's that's still tickin', but I don't shoot +P in it (and .38 Special is a low pressure round in general).
Polymer won't rust like metal, however, shitty polymer will crack under stress much easier and is obviously a bit more pliable, even if only slightly so. Eh, really it depends, if you have safe storage and don't fuck with it much, both should last for a very long time, I would check on the metal one more often though, because rust is a sneaky bastard.
the plastic fag cries out in pain as he defames your steel frame
Question related anons, would type of holster construction effect the wear on polymer differently then metal framed guns. Different materials such as nylon, polyester, leather, and molded plastic?
Again, you should be more concerned about the metal parts rusting on contact with air humidity than you should be with the plastic parts degrading on conteact with UV.
No. Why would it?
I'm loving how butt blasted some of you are over this.. plastic gets brittle, sorry folks. At best your gonna get maybe a hundred years.
I love how that was the direct question yet your all defending it like "oh easily a hundred years but no more, steel guns don't that that long either". Then there is the guy who thinks he can 3D print a 3D printer, which you can then just print a flock frame outa cheap plastic beads even though be have no idea what glock frames are made of
As someone who actually works with polymer accessories and firearms in a factory that makes the parts, they are not simple It's made with binding agents and even bits of metal in it. Today's guns will last hundreds of years once dried and properly made.
However, I work with them when they are freshly out of the mold. Some wire cutters could easily rip them in half with a strong grip. However, you wait an hour or two and I could break the same pair of wire cutters on the plastic. It's fucking insane.
Sorry but chemistry disagrees with you. Polymer lasts thousands of years with no degredation. Metal will oxidize away to nothing in the same timeframe unless constantly pampered and maintained. As pointed out earlier in the thread, metal frames are also degraded from shooting and will develop stress fractures due to being less elastic. Polymer frames are mostly immune to this and aren't worn out by normal use.
Except a Glock frame does absolutely flex under recoil.
If the stress is put on the barrel, chamber, breech face and locking block, where do these things sit? In. A. Polymer. Frame.
Google the frame mounted red dot optics on Glocks cracking the frame. I forget the exact model but the one that replaces the trigger pins, is known to crack Glock frames.
Glocks flex, but they do it very well.
For an Engineer, you're not that bright.
>*Laughs in 1908 Dragoon Rifle that shoots better than my M39 that also has a 102 year old receiver.
oookkkuurrrrrr
its not just a meme, sure some of the plastic might last forever but that doesnt mean it will last as a functional handgun
Took the words out of my mouth. I shoot glocks and m&p’s the best. But it does influence my gun purchases, as retarded as it may sound.
I work at a shooting range that has been open for 4 years now and we are on our 4th rental g17 and 5th glock 19.
we estimate they see around 250,000 rounds a year and thats more than enough to break them. we inspect everyone once a week for signs of damage, suprisingly ONLY the poly guns seem to break... shocker..
weve had the same Beretta 92 since we opened so it has maybe a million + rounds put through it, sure weve replaced mags and springs and such but the gun is still solid. tho i think the barrel still seemed fine we replaced it last year as a precaution.
also it seems like a smith modern production 44mag (629) has a life of about 20,000 rounds before it just dies
While I can get behind the idea of burying a bunch of guns in cosmoline filled plastic containers, what if your grandchildren turn out as rabid liberals and get rid of them?
At least you gave them that option
Well, I’m just thinking along the lines of a polymer gram gun being holstered in a hard molded plastic could have more adverse effects of the polymer frame over time vs something like leather or nylon. Maybe years of practice drawing and edc (getting in and out of car, bumping your holster on a door frame, etc) might have different effects on different materials
I never said it didn't flex, learn to read bud. I just said most of the forces are exerted on the steel upper half. And the stress that the frame does undergo is something that certain types of polymer can easily handle. In fact I mentioned polymer flexing in my post. Maybe learn to read properly instead of just typing up a kneejerk response to an imaginary argument I did not make.
I have both metal framed and polymer framed guns. I'm not having kids (snipped) so I don't really give a shit about what happens to them after I die.
OP here, was moreso wondering if they wouldn’t last as long with regular use. The way I shoot, and i suspect my desendants would shoot, it wouldn’t reach that round count in centuries.
And it seems they’ve answered my question.
>put overpressure hand load in glock
>get kaboom
>glock is low quality
pretty much all of those pictures are an obvious result of overpressure loads. when the side of the frame is blown out and the magazine is damaged, that's basically always the cause.
If you leave a Glock sitting at the top of a tower in the Sahara desert and expose it to relentless sunlight, then yes it will degrade much like leaving its metal components in a cage on a fishing boat. But the effect is negligible unless your glocc is sunbathing constantly
All of those related images are multiple pictures of a single kaboom, frames that came damaged from the factory or from trying to install an aftermarket part (i.e. not from shooting), and one guy mistaking factory stippling as a crack. One is a 1911 that cracked its frame from shooting.
Now read about what happened to the 1911A1s during their service with the Army. Look at actual shooting related frame cracks (not kabooms, those can happen in metal frames just as easily). Metal handgun frames crack far more easily because they have almost no flex. This just isn't something that can be contested.
Why do you care? Guns will be banned in 20 years at this pace.
>all those "sun will destroy polymer frames!" posts
>What are UV stabilizers
Gaston would have to be really dumb not to include them in his formula. Considering that he was an expert in polymers way before he even started to design guns, I'd say it's safe to assume Glock don't degrade from UV or do so negligibly.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org