Can a Hind helicopter shoot down two F-16s ?

Only over shadow Moses island. In the snow

I was built to hunt your mom.

>The Iran–Iraq War also saw the only confirmed helicopter dogfights in history, with Iranian Army Aviation's AH-1J Internationals (usually the TOW-capable ones) entering combat mostly against Iraqi Army Air Corps' Mil Mi-24 Hind gunships and HOT-armed Aérospatiale Gazelles. Hinds are stronger and faster, while AH-1Js are more agile. The result of the skirmishes are disputed. There were even engagements between Iranian AH-1J and Iraqi fixed-wing aircraft: using their 20 mm calibre cannon, the AH-1Js scored three confirmed kills against MiG-21s, claimed a Su-20, and shared in the destruction of a MiG-23.

Pilots are actually being told not to dogfight against helicopters, due to the possibility of them carrying air-to-air missiles.

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Rule of thumb is don't get within 4-5 nmi of it, don't fly directly at it, and for the love of God stay high or very low
If you get within range and it gets a lock on you it's ripperoni for your ass

Just stay back and hit it with an AMRAAM

Yes. If the falcons are parked on the tarmac.

Based

How did the Gazelles fared tho ?

They were quite effective tank hunters when pared with Hinds.

If it's got a minigun in the door and it catches them on takeoff or landing, absolutely

Can AMRAAMs keep a lock on helicopters among ground clutter if it drops beneath 100 meters? Not Vatnik posting, just curious. I had been lead to believe that you should use IR guided missiles to hit helicopters if you are shooting down at them from a plane rather than a stationary SAM complex.

/thread

Apaches probably can't because unlike the Hind, or even the Supercobra, Apache main cannons can't aim upwards and during the Iran-Iraq war the dogfights between supercobras and hinds, and between Supercobras and Mig 21s/Su-20s, were usually from their main cannons.

While it's possible you could mount A2A missiles on helicopters, the problem is that most planes should be hitting the helos too quickly for them to respond with a missile lock before the plane kills them with a missile, and the plane shouldn't be finding the helos on their six in a way that is optimal for a heat seeking warheads anyway.

Literally the only reason the Supercobras were able to get those kills though was because the iranian pilots discovered the supercobra worked better in the anti-tank role if you flew it fast and swoopy like a Hind. And then you had Hinds and Supercobras zooming around the same battlefield trying to kill each others' tanks, and then hinds and supercobras dog fighting and then as iranian helos pushed through the southern iraqi swamps to attack tanks the iraqis were sending into iran you then had iraqis sending high fast interceptors without look-down-shoot-down abilities to intercept low, relatively slow, helicopters and thus cannon fights and dogfighting occurred in a way that couldn't happen again with F-16s or Mig-29s or with Apaches as they are kinda married to their nape-of-the-earth flight profile. The Air-to-air missiles on the apache are more comfort blankets than useful really, any time an apache is in a situation where it doesn't have air cover is a bad time for the apache

d-dad..?

Any jet vs a helicopter is going to be a very lopsided fight and no helicopter pilot is eager to be engaged by fixed wing assets of any sort.

Yeah. You can outfit a hind with air-to-air munitions and a hind has targeting systems to compliment them.
But a hind would have to somehow "get the drop" on the f16s.

This, maybe if the hind was flying low and knew the jets were coming. However the countermeasures on American aircraft are pretty damn great and I think the hind would become a target real damn quick after making it's move. I used to work on CH-53's and talking to aircrew if they encounter jets they take evasive action and get low, like really low to try and hide.

they can use any targeting data that the aircraft has access to for the initial guidance (ir, datalink, radar, boresight) modern versions can probably guide it all the way without using its built in radar if needed

It shot down a blackhawk mistaken for a hind once lol

Helicopters are flying drone targets to fixed wing fighters, they have almost absolutely no way of shooting down a fixed wing. The Helo, for some reason, would have to be at equal or a higher altitude, and the fighter would, for some reason, have to be flying almost right next to it at near stall speeds.

Agreed, I think the only thing a helicopter has going for it is collective control letting you climb or descend at a faster rate than most aircraft.

>The Helo, for some reason, would have to be at equal or a higher altitude

Unless the gun points upwards.

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And in order for the gun to pointing upwards that AH-1 is either in a dead hover or literally moving backwards about to snap roll around

Not as lopsided as you think. The USAF did a number of studies in the 70s about fighters vs armed helos, and found that helicopters can be incredibly dangerous to fighter aircraft. Of course, in the 70s, I imagine radars had a much harder time picking a helicopter out of ground clutter than they would today.

The best way to think of them being applied against enemy fighters is a super-mobile AAA system.

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Unless the pilot is Neall Ellis or Liquid Snake, no.

JCATCH was among the dumbest and least thought out exercise in US military history. There were literal Huey pilots, with no way shape or form to attack fixed wing fighters, looking up at aircraft flying high above them through their canopy glass, and then shouting "kill, kill, kill" into their mics, merely because they made visual contact. Meanwhile fighters were making good locks on the helos with HUD footage to prove were being dismissed in briefings due to confusion, arguments, and inter service rivalries.

At no point since, in either real life, or in modern exercises like red flag, has the complete retardation of JCATCH ever been replicated or vindicated.

In fact in all exercises and in real life encounters, helos suffer a near 90% death rate when a fighter enters their airspace.

No but a Strike Eagle can drop an LGB through a hind in mid-air.

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funniest a2a kill of the war.

Interesting. I didn’t know the context on that study before. Do you have anything I could read to learn more about it?

The Apache can carry the air to air version of the Stinger. It's mostly intended for anti-helicopter work but could kill a badly piloted fighter.

It’s probably a tie between this and the parachuting pilot that downed a Zero with his 1911 for funniest A2A kill ever.

Could a hind have caused this "crash" ?

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Have they publicly released a cause yet?

Slavic engineering and a junkie pilot?

Depends on what kind of radar they're using. Older radars struggle with ground clutter, but pulse doppler radar completely removes the effects of indirect terrain masking because it tracks relative motion.

stay seething, jetboy

Side effect is that notching still works when you have ground clutter behind you.

Can Russian incompetence shoot down two Su-34s?

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>Older radars struggle with ground clutter, but pulse doppler radar completely removes the effects of indirect terrain masking because it tracks relative motion.
So if the helicopter is hovering low, the doppler radar won't pick it up because it has the same relative motion as the ground clutter?

Only by the IAF

>high speed helicopter dogfights
That entire paragraph sounds like the highest quality Jow Forumsino.

Theoretically, but it's far more likely that an F-16 will shoot down 2 Hinds.

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You must be crazy to fly a Hind in this kind of weather

Holy shit lmao why are arabs such losers at war?

The most badass war after ww2

Helicopters are actually very very good air to air platforms. Imagine a flying turret

Pulse-doppler combines the ability of pulse radars to ping your current position while also being able to track your movement

maybe if theyre still on the fucking airstrip

>arabs vs arabs
>Lmao why are arabs such losers at war?
and dont bring up the persian race meme

Considering the only reason Persians are Islamic instead of Zoroastrian is because they lost a war to the Arabs and got conquered, I don't think Persians are any better off than their Arab brethren.