>Claim: majority of guns used by Mexican cartels are from the US
I know the ATF is shady as fuck, so red pill me on this.
Claim: majority of guns used by Mexican cartels are from the US
Gabriel Cooper
Other urls found in this thread:
gao.gov
worldview.stratfor.com
youtube.com
archive.fo
zerohedge.com
gao.gov
youtube.com
twitter.com
Eli Martin
you're referring to this?
Angel Clark
Why do you want to know?
Camden Hernandez
Yeah, I'm aware of that study. I've seen other GAO studies for issues not related to gun control, and their methodology has always been suspect to me. Once again, the problem is they're relying on the ATF. So a corrupt federal agency which was caught red handed smuggling guns to drug cartels, which infamously led to the death of a border patrol agent, is trying to make the case that Americans owning firearms is the main cause for gun violence in Mexico. Am I the only one who finds that...mildly suspicious?
I'm writing a paper about it.
Owen Garcia
I'd think an AK from Guatemala would be cheaper and easier to smuggle into Mexico as opposed to an AR.
Hudson Morris
>smuggle
Don't need to do that when the us gov just gives them away
Anthony Myers
>I'm writing a paper about it.
Kind of looks like Jow Forums's writing your paper about it.
Do keep in mind there's prestige in guns from the US. People in India fucking LOVE our revolvers and IIRC HAMAS has a variation of their flag with an AK and an AR on it.
Luke Walker
>worldview.stratfor.com
>According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.
>This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing. In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States.
>The remaining 22,800 firearms seized by Mexican authorities in 2008 were not traced for a variety of reasons. In addition to factors such as bureaucratic barriers and negligence, many of the weapons seized by Mexican authorities either do not bear serial numbers or have had their serial numbers altered or obliterated. It is also important to understand that the Mexican authorities simply don't bother to submit some classes of weapons to the ATF for tracing.
Austin Price
>Kind of looks like Jow Forums's writing your paper about it.
Lol, yeah sorta. I'm just looking for ideas. See if anyone has a different perspective on it. I can evaluate the relative merits of the arguments and data from there.
Jose Cooper
thanks for saving me typing all that.
Mexico only asks the ATF about guns they're pretty sure came from the US. They don't ask about the rest. This is a shit stat from idiots who are stubbornly unwilling to let facts distract them from a good political meme.
Jace Rivera
The thing you have to consider is just because you have a weapon in a stockpile doesn't mean it will be the preferred weapon for a cartel hit, or that it will even be used at all. The "cocaine cowboys" in Florida had ARs, but they only ever seemed to actually use MAC-10s and UZIs.
Kayden Evans
...and they keep using that shit stat, over and over again: youtube.com
Ethan Nguyen
>linking anti white leftist propaganda site
Fuck off.
Henry Bennett
Fine, have an archive: archive.fo
Noah Cruz
So what ideas did you already have?
William Baker
Basically what has already been mentioned. The ATF's questionable record on this issue, the fact that Mexican authorities can pick and choose which firearms are part of the sample population, etc.
Joshua Campbell
>claim
it's the truth, look up fast and furious
Matthew Fisher
>ATF knowingly and intentionally allows for known smugglers to purchase guns in the U.S.
>there are now a lot of guns in Mexico purchased in the U.S.
Huh
Andrew Jenkins
there were fast and furious guns used in bataclan.
zerohedge.com
Aaron Ward
bump
Austin Cruz
you are a retard
Nolan Wright
Redpill: Government isn't perfect.
Adam Myers
>Vox
I'm not reading a some commie S-O-Y infested blog that disguised itself as "news".
Nicholas Cox
I like you, can you be my friend?
Adam Moore
Now that I didn't know.
Justin Brown
read Ed's Manifesto. lots of good intel on shady shit in mexico.
lets overthrow mexico and legalize everything there, then force the cartels to incorporate and tax the piss out of them.
Kevin Powell
Why does it matter OP? Guns are illegal in Mexico.
Parker Jenkins
bump
Oliver Thomas
This is from the GAO study, if anyone is interested.
Wyatt Brown
That's crazy. The Mexican government could address the problem by legalizing it or increase border security by building a wall or something like that. One of the most important jobs of a sovereign country is controlling their borders.
Jaxson Jenkins
Lol, I know, right?
Ryan Green
How hard is it, actually, to smuggle contraband through Guatemala into Mexico? It was a boomer talking point a while back that Mexico guards its southern border better than the US, but that first Caravan smashed through with relative ease.
William Campbell
interesting claim, seeing how the GAO report data is from 2009-2014, not 2008
Camden James
Likely easy. Further south you have murder central in El Salvador and Honduras. Keep going and you got the collapsing state of Venezuela. They all have guns.
Jonathan Brooks
DESU user I wouldn't be surprised if this is true. I've driven back and forth across the US/MX border and they don't stop you at all heading south. I think I went through at 35mph last time.
It would be the easiest thing in the world to load up on guns and ammo here and then just cruise across the border with a trunk full of dakka.
Adam Sanchez
No we need a simpler answer
We need to create greater Texas
Levi Williams
Yeah, I think the Stratfor article is actually referring to a previous report: gao.gov
Eli Thompson
You could also talk about the sheer quantity of weapons produced in the US and how it's only natural that some would turn up in Mexico.
Juan King
>a country with literally one legal gun store in all the lands and extremely tight gun laws
>that is littered by cartels that typically operate close to the US border
>people like Leland Yee found of trafficking arms to central and south american syndicates
I mean, I wouldnt be surprised
John Howard
Or how the US military openly supplies some of Mexico's with various arms and it no shocker that some would end up in the wrong hands, given their EXTREMELY prolific history of corruption to the highest degree.
I mean look at Enrique Camarena's kidnapping and death. Assisted by mexican officials.
Cameron Smith
bump
Elijah Lewis
I remember reading an article years ago showing that most of their guns came from south america.
Usually 'stolen' from governments and then smuggled around. A number were guns the US had given to other governments to fight drug cartels that were then acquired by said cartels.
Joshua Thompson
Gotta a link? Or do you know what the publication was?
Joshua Walker
The cartels are importing metric tons of meth ingredients from China. Norinco can toss some guns in there. Moving guns down south is under much more scrutiny and it's much more expensive. Also Cuba is right accross the pond, you know they were getting Soviet 'surp from there.
>drug cartels,
Only one cartel got the guns, the sinaloa.
Colton Moore
Soviets and the US were arming the sandinistas and contras and other rebel groups pretty heavily. So those guns getting into cartel hands makes sense.
Wyatt Collins
>Americans owning firearms is the main cause for gun violence in Mexico
This matters why?
Adam Howard
Depends, Do you like the freedom to own firearms?
James Russell
The US government uses it as a pretext for more gun control, in order to "fulfill international obligations" or some fake and gay shit like that.
Jordan Powell
bump
Aaron Baker
So? If anything people need to buy more guns. Those cartel people are bad hombres.
Luke Hernandez
...whut? The people supposedly getting the guns are the "bad hombres".
Normal citizens are not allowed to own most firearms in mexico.
And believe it or not: not everyone skirts the law down there. Especially when corrupt cops can extort you and hold you indefinitely.
Kevin Smith
Mexico needs more guns. Criminals will get them anyway. The people need to be armed.
Aiden Flores
>Normal citizens are not allowed to own most firearms in mexico.
And how's that working out for them?
Chase Bennett
>Majority of guns seized in Mexico that have traceable serial numbers lead back to the US
When you say it that way, and you remember that Chink shipping container AK's don't have serial numbers and can't be traced, it makes sense. Also the Mexican military and police seem incapable of tracing the guns from their inventory that were lost to the hands of cartel back to their original possession. Wow, shocking, what a shock that is to all of us.
Owen Rodriguez
Exactly. And guess what? the Mormon townships that said fuck the govt. and armed themselves, successfully fought off the cartels and their towns are some of the nicest most orderly places in all of Mexico. They don't even speak spanish either.
The govt. Exerted stringent gun control laws decades ago. It's fucked.
Brandon Cook
>remember that Chink shipping container AK's don't have serial numbers and can't be traced,
Wait, what?
Logan Bailey
bump
Isaac Morris
FAST
AND
FURIOUS
Jeremiah Lewis
You granny shifted too soon junior
Lincoln Morales
Yes, that is where the 87 percent figure comes from.
Luis Evans
Whatever you say, sped.
Evan Morris
>Exactly. And guess what? the Mormon townships that said fuck the govt. and armed themselves, successfully fought off the cartels and their towns are some of the nicest most orderly places in all of Mexico. They don't even speak spanish either.
Do you have a link to this?
Elijah Rodriguez
Jacob Reyes
There are dozens of pictures of Mexican cartels and "self defense groups" with Chinese AKs. You can always tell by the front sight hood. Now, those Chinese AKs are a rare commodity in the US, whether they are semi auto or full auto. So either Mexico has somehow accumulated 90% of the Chinese AKs imported into the US before the ban, or they are getting them straight from the source. Now, when the Chinese ship out arms to various foreign factions that they otherwise can't sell weapons to, you better believe that they don't slap a fucking serial number or roll mark on the side. It doesn't matter of course, you can still tell it's a Chinese AK, but as far as they are concerned, you can't prove it.
Hudson Myers
Not really, their gun laws are somewhat similar to gun laws in the UK
Pretty fucking cucked but existant
Cooper Jenkins
Not him but i can testify, the Mexican "equivalent" of the 2nd amendment is called articulo 10, these article declare the freedom of owning weapons and defending one's self should be given to any citizen of the country and it honestly was pretty based, but it all changed in 1972, after a sudden spike in gun violence
As you can see, it didn't work so well
Source: my own experience with the situation
Alexander Kelly
I like how implication is these criminal organizations have been able to seize control of large parts of Mexico and fend off the Mexican military armed only with semi auto rifles bought in the US. I guess you can beat them drones.
Dylan Ross
Vox isn’t even a credible source show me another.