How much did the Russian military decline during the low points of the 1990's? Not just the Chechen war...

All things considered Russia's military is doing better than expected given the constraints. They accomplish their intended goals much cheaper than the US does theirs.

The modern Russian military is nowhere near as it was in the mid-late 90s

>did the Russian military decline

>a wide range of USSR-era projects were simply paused or canceled

Was not a decline, but a healthy correction, given that class struggle in Europe or elsewhere became of no concern to Russians, hence no need to liberate English or French workers from the yoke of imperialism.

Not really. Everyone that can is focused heavily on getting money out of Russia and establishing expat communities for what looks increasingly like an inevitable economic collapse.

They've done aggressive triage and have given up on some things (like a large navy) while focusing on specific capabilities, especially related to missiles and platforms from which to launch those missiles. Something like turning their relatively small corvettes in the Caspian into cruise missile platforms.

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The real wakeup call for Russia was the first gulf war, biggest army in the middle east using Soviet doctrine, equipment, strategy and tactics got fucked super hard. Much as the Iraqi's are garbage, there's a fucking crazy amount of them and for all intents and purposes, they did have equipment that worked, they had been trained to use and it just folded.
People took note of the anal tearing that happened, but they did nothing about it really as the Soviet union went into a tailspin and what that essentially did was a messy divorce between all those little union client states, their production power, brains and resources that used to get channelled into Russia, stopped literally within a year and its a big hit. While there's some argument in that some of them used to eat up resources from the USSR more than they put in, pretty much all of Eastern Europe, Balkans and Germany was more into the positives than negatives to outweigh all the little stans and shitholes put together.
Aside from that, a whole lot of brainpower just literally got the fuck out. Engineers, medical professionals, soldiers, pilots and basically anyone with half a brain fucked off somewhere else that wasn't anything to do with Russia and that's a harder knock in some ways than just losing an economy. Cash and resources you can bounce back from relatively quickly, turning fucking idiots into someone 'qualified' takes a generation or two.

It really wasn't until maybe the early 2010's that anyone regarded Russia as being more than a meme. Its still fucked now and it will be fucked for some time because they want to get back all those little client states, so they're going to be raped by sanctions for the foreseeable future and that really does kill R&D, bring in new ideas, training programs and just literally hiring people smart enough to get their shit together. There are moves to modernise their forces, don't get me wrong! But its just going to be dragging arse doing it

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1993-98 was the time when they actually lived up to the bullshit routinely spouted on Jow Forums

China came to a similar conclusion after watching the Gulf War. They’ve just had the money to actually attempt to build an army that could attempt to counter the US, defensively at least.

Implessive.

>>implying there was any incline afte4r the collapse of the union

Well, they’ve stabilized now if nothing else. The deployment to Syria has at least proven that their volunteer units are more capable than ISIS. That certainly wasn’t the case in the 90’s.

My highschool Russian teacher was actually chosen to be Russian president's Kruschev's vice pres- yanayev's interpreter for his visit to the U.S. in like 1991.
He was dumbfounded when he went to Walmart. Of course he thought it was propaganda.
Then he came to our highschool- he asked "why are there so many cars here" and my teacher explained that they belonged to the students. Of course he didn't believe it. And then 2:45 bell rang and he watched 1,400 teenagers get out of class and go home...
That was the downfall of Russia.
Cool story:
In Soviet russia-
When you got married, you were given a car for the honeymoon.
That you had to give back after the honeymoon was over.

So want caused the downfall of Russia?
When they saw what the rest of the world was doing...

"how Russians calls Alaska?"
"Ice Krym"

Hahaha that was actually a good comeback, nice.

China's greatest asset is being China, its greatest detriment is well... the Chinese
To drag themselves out of feudalism, they basically had to call it communism, kill a fuckload of people who didn't tow the line and got back to good ol fashioned feudalism under one party that had all the nobility up the top lording it over the combined region. Now, it works- but you've got to keep your knee on the back of Chang's neck- constantly. Because the minute you lift your knee off them, he'll run off into the wild, start screaming about democracy and the next thing you know, spending money mending the huge fucking mess, scraping Chang's brains off the bottom of your tank along with 1000's of other buttmad, angry yellow people that don't want to live on 50 bucks a week and want some of that sweet good life the big bosses in the CPC have.

However, with the great unwashed, unskilled masses comes the problem that as soon as you want to go do some shit, well fuck, Chang's off running amok again. Which means you have to keep a vast reserve of the PLA dedicated to stomping on Chang's dick as soon as there's a thought crime and it just doesn't leave much left to actually do anything.
Hence the PLA is directly beholden to the CPC- they literally don't lift a finger to do anything unless the CPC says yes. Southern China could literally be swimming in ameriburgers and japs democratising the fucking shit out of everything, but if the CPC said nothing, they'd do nothing.

Having remarkable levels of discipline in the armed forces is great for policing things, but they don't get enough leash to come up with anything innovative, agile or any kind of reward for risk taking to create opportunity. Plus on a practical level, there hasn't really been any actual combat experience.
Practice might make perfect, but deployments in warzones are chaos and a whole different scenario.

why do you think life in china is that bad???
i bet they don't get taxed out the ass and there damn sure aint no fucking epa to worry about

How far?
>Some Spetsnaz units were making extra money by leasing their training facilities and trainers to the Russian mafia to train hitmen.
>Soldiers forcing fresh recruits to be gay prostitutes.
>Remote garrisons starving because the food supplies don't reach them in time due to some clerical error.
>Spetsnaz troops being used as line infantry in Chechnya because so few infantry units are combat worthy.
>Soldiers selling their weapons to the Chechens for food.
>Full throttle dedovschina.
>Morale is low.
>Everyone is high. On cheap drugs.

And let's not forget the classic:

>Dude let's send a lot of tanks into a city, what can possibly go wrong?
>We did this in Budapest in 1956 and it went VERY wrong...
>Just do it.
>It's a bad idea.
>Do it.
>Fine.

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>taxed out the ass
It’s a communist system if your not in the cities, and taxes are still very much a thing.
>no epa
That’s a bad thing in China’s case.

Was it really that bad for Russia in the 90s?

Because I lived and worked there for 7 months, life is very hard down the bottom of the pecking order and people are basically locked into subsistence lifestyles. That's sort of the gap between economic progress and reality, no ones lifting wages overly much unless there's some kind of drastic shortage of hands on the tools in some occupation that's so fucking god awful no one does it unless they 'have to'.
There's a real culture of desperation there which has made people super-needy for their own security, be that food security, social group acceptance and job security because of the deprivations of the past which has created a really messed up culture of people who will fuck over anyone to keep going. If you got to throw a dude under the bus to get a raise, its not so much a case of should you, but can you do it quick enough before someone else beats you to it!

To some extent the state is propping up the ability of people to get by with various means, but most of it is a side effect of the state pushing for a more powerful economic muscle. So if you get your smokes, cheap food, free postage, cheap cars and random plastic gizmos a bit cheaper than somewhere else, its only because of the drive for prosperity. Then there's the real culture of arrogance that the Chinese have pidgeonholed themselves into, because they're not all rice farmers anymore and they don't have to try as hard to sell something- they can fuck their customers over. That's a trickle down effect into everything from the iphones to missile systems. Lot of arrogance and corruption, plus just outright deceit people don't want to deal with so a lot of the business is going to places like India and Vietnam which don't have any of the cultural fuck-ups and are more than willing to help with overseas investment.

Give it 5-10 years, gunna be interesting times

>Was it really that bad for Russia in the 90s?

It wasn't like "African Revolutionary Civil War massacre #49", but there was some real drastic shortages of some things, plus the ensuing anxiety through the country about just how things are going to turn out. After that it just sort of became rolling shortages here, crime waves there, more shortage of this, no utilities or basic services because there was literally no money to pay people to keep even the most fundamental things going.
Once the oligarchs and criminals took over, things did tend to improve for a little while but its more a case of just shoving the problems under a rug and pretending it didn't happen. Anxiety turned into denial and mostly the optimism that while it was all fucked, things would be ok as long as they didn't happen to you. When I wrote about the brain drain earlier, no kidding about that. Literally dozens of people like my in-laws left the former soviet union and went west- so you're talking about a top flight orthopaedic surgeon and a dentist that just upped and went. Mostly because if they stayed any longer the money they're owed would just keep increasing and never get paid, plus at a fundamental level when you're telling patients to source their own painkillers from the black market before coming in under the knife or drill... because the surgery doesn't have any, you just know you've hit peak fucking idiocy and its time to go.

I know this is a popular meme here among kids but in reality Russian military today (ignoring their laughable navy) is quite good.
I mean, what the fuck are you even comparing them with, US military which has a 10 times bigger budget?

1998-1999

>laughable navy
They're slowly moving in the right direction with the switch toward light missile ships and arctic capabilities.

Russia still is able to rely on fucktons of old Soviet equipment to fill the ranks. Once they have to actually buy everything new, as well as pay for the development of those weapons, they'll stabilize and start improving again. Until then, the bulk of their forces are getting increasingly worse, at least comparatively to the rest of the world.

For example they have about 1200 air-to-air capable combat aircraft, but how many of them aren't old Soviet aircraft. Most of those would've still been modern and decent at the fall of the Soviet Union, but they aren't anymore, they're outdated junk. Russia is filling the ranks with outdated airframes that are loosely kept up to date, while it's optimistic to hope for them to have 100 5th generation aircraft by 2025. What do you think will be the state of the rest of their aircraft force by then?

Capitalism

They can't pay for shit. Their GDP is less than the state of texas

>nominal
Discarded.

Still a very valid marker of how poor the country is. They would be sucking major china dong to get loans to pay for any serious upgrades

They've not been able to afford to maintain their navy for years, and their army is meme tier with Armata and other programs that are nothing more than propaganda.

Russia was a paper tiger in the 80s and remain so today

Also, I understand the short comings with GPD estimation, but it's fairly obvious that Russia is broke. Compared to other countries they are unable to properly maintain an army due to lack of funds.

Well the mans not wrong. Iran can't afford shit, Russia cant afford shit, and China can't stop masturbating and producing smog to get their shit together.

>They would be sucking major china dong to get loans to pay for any serious upgrades

Like the Americans already do? You're correct, we're not stupid enough to bow to China like Americans.

Millions of Americans die of opioid overdose while your government spends trillions in wars around the world.

Russian government prefers to build hospitals and roads than tanks and nuclear bombs like the Americans.

Nominal is the measure with which they interact with other countries. GDP PPP is an exclusively internal measure. Comparing GDP PPP alone isn't much better.

Also, no one ever mentions state budget when comparing countries, despite how obviously important it is. Russia's state budget is minuscule, and even their state budget PPP is behind that of France.

>Russian government prefers to build hospitals and roads than tanks and nuclear bombs like the Americans.
Imagine being the guy who believes this. The portion of their military spending has always been massive. It was pretty much a quarter of the budget for many years until the cuts a couple of years ago. And since as I just explained their budget is tiny even compared to their economy, they really aren't trying really hard to spend on their population.

Now if you start factoring the absolutely abysmal Russian corruption that eats at that pathetic budget, you end up with a reasonable explanation as to why not even Russians want Russian healthcare and why they have more pothole surface than actual road surface.

Jow Forums is pretty amazing at believing that russian military is poor and worse now than 10 or 20 years ago.

to this belief the current generation of komrades will hold until their dying days.

It's amazing how vatniks will believe that building 12 aircraft and a few dozen tanks suddenly compensates for the aging of ~1000 aircraft and 8000+ tanks.

Procurement is better right now but it is still rather poor. The thing that makes Russia strong is its nuclear weapons and equipment. Equipment that is getting older and older. Also the Russian economy isnt able to keep up with the rising cost of development. The Russian military is still going down hill.

Russian military is an absolute phantom shadow skeleton of it's USSR "prime". The real concern is that Russia will get so weak that it will invite Chinese adventurism. If you look at sat imagery of the Russo-Chinese border, you see the disparity in industrialization and population density. Russian decline is highly destabilizing because Russian resources are very tempting.

Now that's a nice meme.

That's a funny meme that only Americans spout.

Russia has nuclear tipped Iskander launchers in Khabarosvk.
Remember when their Minister of Defense talked about preemptive tactical nuclear attacks? Yes, he was referring to this.

If nominal didn't matter, Russians would be driving cars produced in Russia, buying Russian TVs, Russian computers, and Russian heavy equipment for business.

Guess what isn't happening?

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China doesn't need to invade. They're buying up land, resources, and industry non-violently and even infiltrating immigrants.

OOOF

That's really bad.

Texas have larger economy than Russia.
They could rival China in terms of economy of Putin didn't decided to build USSR 2.0

>They could rival China in terms of economy
Almost certainly not. Russia's in the midst of experiencing a huge demographic crisis, which will manage to make their labor force even worse off than it already is. Combine that with the brain drain from the immediate aftermath of the collapse of the USSR, and the continued widespread costly medical issues when it comes to alcoholism and HIV, and Russia never had a chance. Putin's actually handling the situation fairly well considering the hand he's been dealt. His continued attempts to regain Russian global standing are wastes of resources, though.

There is also the fact that SOME of the people educated in the USSR stayed. Those people are NOT being replaced by the new shitty education system.

>Putin's actually handling the situation fairly well considering the hand he's been dealt. His continued attempts to regain Russian global standing are wastes of resources, though.

I don't know what he is handling well. He did an awesome job eliminating LOW LEVEL crime and re-organizing the armed forces. And then...nothing.

>Russian military today (ignoring their laughable navy) is quite good.

No its not its 80% armed with 40 year old tanks and 50-60 year old apcs crewed by conscripts. It counts as reserves those pictures you have seen of rusting soviet hulks lined up and abandoned. IT can -barely- lump 150,000 or so of these conscripts and the 50,000 sub western professional but better than conscripts into a mas with vehicles that work and have them move around beside the Chinese border or Ukraine/Baltics. The degree of rape that they face at this stage rom any peer is week long gangbang level, that being said everyone knows Russia is collapsing and waiting to carve up the corpse.

When it comes to vehicles, the older they get, the bigger liability they become as you're just sinking vast amounts of money, resources and labour into maintaining them. Being they're soviet vehicles, planes and ships the maintenance cycles used to be already fucking awful, so it soon becomes just a case of patching over the last lot of rust with something less rusty and its debatable if a 50 year old shitbox is even worth keeping.
Plus, if you keep old gear in active service, it literally ties your doctrine to that era.
You can modify, upgrade and massage it into a modern doctrine, but that just more $$$ for less of a result than starting afresh. That lack of future proofing is going to come home to roost with either a completely worthless combat doctrine in an environment that doesn't exist any more, or at best one that's dragging arse 20 years behind the current era. Neither are really acceptable when it comes to state security and the defensive, stand off option of nuclear strikes is starting to diminish as counters for that are starting up again. Its not to say nuke strikes won't work, but they might not work enough in the next 20-30 years to be a reliable deterrent

Lot of the sticklers that stayed are coming up to retirement age or only 5-10 years away from leaving the workforce assuming they're 20somethings at around the time of the dissolution. Considering the average lifespan in Russia isn't that great to begin with, its going to be another hit to the head.

Their deployed units are fairly good, but that's because they're the only units capable of deploying in the whole Russian military.

Russian conscripts can't be in warzones anyway.

Article 36, part 8 states:
>8. Decree of the President of the Russian Federation "On the procedure for sending conscripts of conscripts to perform tasks in armed conflicts and to participate in hostilities" dated May 16, 1996 N 723 N 1356 // SZ RF. 1996. N 21. St. 2467; SZ RF. 1998. N 46. St. 5651) found that soldiers, sailors, sergeants, sergeants and officers undergoing military service by conscription are sent to perform tasks in armed conflict and to participate in hostilities exclusively on a voluntary only basis.

Jow Forums seems to constantly imply that Russian combat units are conscripts and they're being forced to go to Syria, but it's a myth, conscripts only serve for one year and don't do anything special outside of cleaning, organizing and carrying stuff around in garrisons.
All mechanized infantry, paratroopers and infantry in Syria are contracted volunteers. In 2016 they opened an opportunity for conscripts to sign a 1-year contract to serve in Syria as a professional soldier earning 100,000-200,000 rubles per month, the standard contract is usually 3+2 years, this 1-year long contract is for the guys entering conscription only.

Hey pal, just blow in from Stupidtown?

t. Slavaboo

>At what point was the Russian military the weakest and least-capable?
At the very end of WW2. Virtually every seasoned soldier had been killed, literally an army on conscripts and their military hardware was almost exhausted.

No bully Russians. It's so sad when Westerners attack Russians instead of understanding our governments are the problem. We could have global peace tomorrow. We could have everyone fed and housed tomorrow. But we don't, because of our leaders.

Yeah world war 3 would be great!

.t plebbit summerfag

odd. if we want to compare... from those, USians are only buying cars produced in the US, and, perhaps, some equipments, all of that with parts made elsewhere.

200k rubles a year? That's almost three thousand USD. Truly, more money then most Russians make in a lifetime.

thats a DECLINE

Are you a drunk 14 year old spic?

>USians
wat

This is likely true when it comes to military capability. At least their unmaintained stockpiles of equipment weren't laughably outdated in the early 90's. Technologically, Russia has fallen behind even China.

If you're trying to do business in a place without corruption, don' to to India. They make the Chinese look like the Swiss.

>100,000-200,000 rubles per month
>200k rubles a year?
>more money then most Russians make in a lifetime
So that's how all these bullshit memes about Russia are born, huh.

That's what you get for trusting the Western Jew in the 90's, Ivan.

Yeah, this is why chinese still struggle with even copying russian tech.

the russian military has improved from the 90s.
but they wont stay that way for long if things keep up like this.

For the size of their economy ($1.6 trillion nominal GDP in 2018), they have a massive arms export sector.

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I was in St Petersburg last summer and we chatted up a local lady.

She said the fall lf the Soviet Union ans the time after was a dark time.

Alchohalism (more so than usual), suicide, drugs, a feeling of national defeat.

Today there is a shortage of men, 5to1.

but that export sector is in serious trouble if they dont start to innovate soon. relying on updated soviet equipment wont help when china or Europe offers newer and better solutions at a fraction of the price.

>and there damn sure aint no fucking epa to worry about

raughs in 16% of farmland polluted with heavy metals

Shut up boomer

China has more flying 5th gen aircraft than Russia, and a vastly superior navy.

>China has flying 5th gen aircraft
Powered by 3rd gen russian engines

Sure, but they’re rapidly developing beyond that point. Meanwhile, Russia’s unlikely to even put 100 5th gen aircraft into operation by 2030. Russia’s lack of a serious domestic semiconductor industry is severely hurting its ability to develop increasingly-computerized modern weapon systems.

>No its not its 80% armed with 40 year old tanks

I'm pretty sure our MBT is also 40 years old

Yes. It was like Germany losing WW1. A disaster.
People actually voted for commie candidate in 1996 to go back from that hellish situation but the acting president was declared a winner and all papers burned after that, good luck recounting ballots. Such is democracy)))

>Today there is a shortage of men, 5to1.

LOL, was she 60 years old by any chance?

Hope you used a condom, only the most promiscuous and sluttyest Russian women use this "1 billion more women than men" meme.

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uma delicia

is this new pasta?

Because of hyperinflation dumbass.
Do you also think Russia's economy got slashed in half after the 2014? Only retarded American boomers who don't know how exchange rates work think this.

My dad had a similar story. He was a cadet in military academy in the 70's. At that point, due to some unfathomable diplomatic shenanigans, there was actually a 1 week exchange with soviet cadets (this was France btw).
It was pretty weird overall, since none of them saw the other as anything but THE potential enemy.
Naturally, they dismissed the cadets' parking lot as obvious propaganda.

Quality shit post. The triggered vatniks make me lol

Thanks for a non-meme post.

Remind them about Korean Air Lines Flight 007 too.
>Unidentified object in our air space
>Shoot it!
>But shouldn't we get confirmation-
>Shoot it.
>We just shot down a civil airplane!
>Let's try to pretend nothing ever happened, the world won't ever know, if anybody comes to search, we deploy warships and aircrafts to prevent them from doing their job

>Some Spetsnaz units were making extra money by leasing their training facilities and trainers to the Russian mafia to train hitmen.
>Remote garrisons starving because the food supplies don't reach them in time due to some clerical error.
>Soldiers selling their weapons to the Chechens for food.
I'd love to have some sauce for this.

Why not let them continue thinking that?

Everybody's selling warmed over cold war shit bruh.

Not really anymore.