These things were supposed to be extremely well armoured. How is it that a bloody Stinger missile was capable of destroying them during the Soviet Afghan war?
These things were supposed to be extremely well armoured...
Logan Nguyen
Chase Myers
Russians can have the very best equipment but as long as the operator is still Russian; probability of failure is significant.
Asher Morgan
They are "extremely well armored", they can handle rifle fire. The vast majority of helicopters have cake tin skin that provides zero protection for its occupants.
Jonathan Cooper
Well-armored is a relative term when it comes to aircraft. It’s certainly more durable than your average Huey or something, but there’s not much you can do to armor against a MANPAD while simultaneously being light enough to fly.
Carter Torres
Colton Martin
>How is it that a bloody Stinger missile was capable of destroying them during the Soviet Afghan war?
Not really. Look up for the list of casualties and you'll see that most of them were lost to DShK fire. Stingers were overrated.
Brandon Walker
That’s pretty much the case with all MANPADs. Their main usefulness comes from forcing the pilot to change his tactics to avoid being vulnerable to them.
Ethan Collins
>haha these things were supposed to be extremely well armoured but a sandnigger with a molotov cocktail was capable of destroying them in the Saudi-Jemen war
>[insert any Amerimutt armored vehicle]
>Im not shitposting Im serious here
>300 asshurt comments later...
Jack Thomas
The fact that Stingers traumatised the Soviets enough to force a drastic and costly change of tactics means that they were useful both as deterents and actual weapons.
Isaac Rogers
Yeah, but Stingers were not first and only manpads on the field back then. Blowpipes and Strelas were used too. Stingers just had a lot of PR. Their usage, probably, did more harm than good, because Soviets quickly developed IR-jammers against them, meaning that in European war scenario NATO infantry would be more vulnerable to Soviet helicopter attacks.
Jaxson Scott
Oh, so what happened to the Soviets?
Luis Rodriguez
Andropov died and then Gorbachev happened.
Elijah Lee
>No countermeasures?
Carson Cox
The Soviet union collapsed and Russians have been seething ever since
Ian Adams
>Gorbachev happened.
Someone like Gorbachev was bound to happen. The system was beyond fucked. Ass kissing party drones making agricultural decisions even experienced farmers would find difficult.
Gorbachev managed to play the field ambiguously enough to keep the whole disastrous sham running for a few more years. Not an easy task.
Gabriel Gutierrez
They're beautiful
Brandon Brown
These things can tank a stinger missile from the front - it takes out one engine in that case and the Hind can RTB. Our veterans saw that personally. Hajjis figured out that if you shoot from behind it, it breaks the tail off
Isaiah Fisher
Too expensive. Ka-52 is cheaper but gives same performance.
Adrian Johnson
Because it's not armored everywhere and effect of Stingers is incredibly overrated. Their biggest effect was forcing Soviet pilots to change tactics, fly higher and stuff like that.
Andrew Rivera
>because Soviets quickly developed IR-jammers against them, meaning that in European war scenario NATO infantry would be more vulnerable to Soviet helicopter attacks.
Daniel Cox
Armor isn't going to do shit for a missile blowing the fuck out of your rotors.
Angel Wright
>Why did these helicopters crash after being hit with a missile
Fucking mystery user
Hunter Powell
Kek
Elijah Garcia
B-but muh flying tank
Jackson Ward
Aaron Diaz
The hind isn't "extremely well armored" and neither is the Apache. These are common misconceptions.
Yea, it has some basic bullet proofing around the cockpit, and the Apache has some "ballistic foam". All this means is that if they take a hit or two from an AK / M16, they won't fold. If they run into a Browning / Kord, let alone anything crew-served, they are going down from more than a couple of hits.
The only "armored" helicopter in the world is First of all, it doesn't "give the same performance" in terms of armor - it's way more lightly armored. Second of all, it hasn't demonstrated any better performance in most metrics than competing helicopters.
The KA-52 exists because they happened to put better sensors in it. Note the "happened" - the twin-rotor design doesn't give any significant advantage, EXCEPT that the tail isn't as much of a weakspot anymore.
Evan Watson
>Soviet Afghan war
No such war.
Benjamin Sanchez
You can't really armor a tail rotor.
Evan James
Well armored for a helicopter is still shit armor compared to everything else that's armored.
Alexander Hill
>These things were supposed to be extremely well armoured
They are. The only other helicopter that can withstand 12.7 mm is Mi-28. MANPADS missiles are quite a bit more powerful than that.
>How is it that a bloody Stinger missile was capable of destroying them during the Soviet Afghan war?
Only seven Mi-24 were ever shot down by Stingers, at least two of which performed emergency landing.
Dylan Stewart
They are flying tanks compared to almost everything else flying.
Blake Brooks
youtube.com
*blocks your path*
Hunter Morgan
It's another vehicle isn't invincible there for it's shit thread
Zachary Jackson
These things were supposed to be extremely well armoured. How is it that a bloody Kornet missile was capable of destroying them during the US-Afghan war?
Turns out, when you design a specific countermeasure to target a type of war machine, those countermeasures are often extremely effective.
Easton Lopez
>aircraft are vulnerable to anti-aircraft weapons
whoaaaaaaa
Jonathan Adams
>These things were supposed to be extremely well armoured
Nothing capable of lifting itself into the air is "extremely well armoured"
Kayden Anderson
Kurds may be sand rats, but anyone that kills Turks is good in my opinion
Christian Lewis
what if we catapult a tank?
Easton Moore
Then you're using a catapult, it's still not flying under it's own power.
Jackson Scott
>Nothing capable of lifting itself into the air is "extremely well armoured"
Antonov: hold my vodka.
Thomas Campbell
Gabriel Ross
20 rubles says that thing would get torn to shreds by an anti-tank rifle
Dominic Sanchez
>so well armoured
Stingers and their ilk will kill any aircraft it hits. Even shit like A-10s, which are notoriously resilient aren't proof against MANPADs despite what you will hear and "armoured" tends to mean small arms to HMG when it applies to aircraft. Maybe an Apache or Hokum will be autocannon proof but they are the exception, not the rule.
Lincoln Hill
Mass deployment of an unexpected weapons platform will do that to any military. IEDs completely changed how western militaries perform occupation/police actions when they realised even durkas with $10 mobile phones and pipes filled with cheap explosive can kill the best units in the world.
Nathaniel Thompson
>Stingers traumatised the Soviets
ru.wikipedia.org
>Ctrl+F Cтингep
>12
Right, "traumatized".
>to force a drastic and costly change of tactics
It's almost like new weapons introduced to the battlefield require change of tactics. Stingers are overrated. Doesn't mean they didn't need to be accounted for.
Hunter Baker
True story
>> AH-1Z Cobra and UH-1Y Huey flying in formation on a training mission
>>AH-1Z Gunner is shooting shit up with the 20mm
>>Pilot takes control of the gun by switching to fixed forward without telling the gunner ,all while the Gunner is blasting away
>> Gun shoots a 20mm APHE round into the blades of the Huey
>>They fly back and land
>>Plane Captain later on doing the daily and turnaround finds a 20mm sized hole in the blades
>>Shit storm after they review the gun cam footage
Caleb Powell
The same way that A10’s got shot the fuck down in iraq 1.
Low and slow flying aircraft get absolutely bodied by madpads
Kevin Hill
The AH-64 has a lot of redundancy and separation of critical parts. It's very hard to knock out the control or fuel systems, for example, and there is some cockpit armor to prevent the biggest single point of failure from getting hit.
Fragments and bullets can get though the skin, but it's made to fly damaged if it has to.
Nicholas Stewart
Because its well armored -for a helicopter-, which means it can eat rifle rounds and be fine but anything bigger than 7.62 is going to give it a bad time. And MANPADS are decidedly bigger than 7.62
Jack Morgan
>The same way that A10’s got shot the fuck down in iraq
Six A-10's were hit, two made it back to base to attempt crash landings, these were the only fixed wing aircraft models hit by SAMs that could actually attempt to remain flyable afterwards.
Five Harriers were shot down
Three A6 Intruders
Two F-15Es
One F-111
One F-4G
One F-14
and three F-16's, that's only 3 less than the A-10's hit, (if you don't know how to count)
Sebastian Garcia
This Retard Again...
Chase Ramirez
So, why were they grounded then?
Andrew Gutierrez
>facts are dumb
Stay mad.
Matthew Davis
Because its a fucking anti air missile?
Lincoln Wood
If you seriously can't tell why your reasoning is flawed, lemme lay it out:
If my goal is to punch you in the head and knock you out, and your goal is not to get hit, you still lose even though you managed to stagger back to your door instead of falling down on the sidewalk,
See where I'm going with this?
Julian Taylor
>See where I'm going with this?
Who knows, as you clearly dont understand air combat and how CAS and ground attack work, especially since you're refusing to even acknowledge the other aircraft shot down, aircraft that fly much faster than the A-10, yet had about the same loss rate. It's almost as if you're not a pilot at all.
Joshua Murphy
Wrong!
Nathaniel Butler
Source?
Michael Gomez
Even then they aren't "autocannon proof," they're just resistant to those rounds. A well placed burst of 20mm or higher could bring one down.
Jose Morris
how does fixed forward point up
Gabriel Fisher
They might have realised Afghanistan is a shithole where wars aren't so much won as continue with no results, until you get sick of wasting resources on them
Michael Adams
They are well armored, but they're also big bitches, and the pilots are kinda meh, if we're talking Russians. The new Czech modifications of the airframe are pretty tits.
Owen Clark
it doesn't, it fixes forward. the huey was flying at a slightly lower altitude.
Sebastian Wood
still not "extremely well armored"
Kevin James
> Overrated...
1000 stingers given to the Mujis. Before the Stingers’ arrival in Afghanistan, the mujahideen had virtually no defense against the Red Army’s MI-24 Hind gunships. The first time the rebels deployed the Stingers, they brought down three Hinds, and they downed about 275 Russian aircraft before the Red Army retreated in 1989.
- Slate
Colton White
Requesting "helicopter no do the crocodile for fear of cutting its own tail rotor" pic.
Zachary Wilson
That is one ugly motherfucka