/bag/ Body Armor General: Body Armor Ban revival edition

That all depends on the weight, cut, and the carrier itself. Do you have something in mind?

Negative. However, it looks like they got their certs.
>Battle Steels Ceramic (SIC) PE Composite ballistic armor plates are tested under NIJ-0101.06 IV body armor standards by H.P. White, Chesapeake. It is capable of stopping at least 3 shots of .30 caliber, 166 grain, AP, and M2 ammunition.

Considering it's only $100ish you can't go wrong testing one yourself. Your life is priceless - don't skimp out.

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I don't have anything specifically in mind other than the ruck being a 40L. Most PCs look about the same size (big enough to cover vital organs) so that's news to me

a lot of battle belts are designed to interface with armor systems fairly easily

If your plate carrier of choice doesn't work while rucking, I'd try and find one that does. Plates are designed for combat, so make sure the carrier is up to snuff.

>tfw no armored gf

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Are side plates a meme? Im not a high speed operator. I think the added protection would be good since im only planning on home production. I currently have a 2012 vintage us palm with IIIa soft and isapi steel which weights a shit ton. No cumberbund just 2" webbing with velcro.

Home protection is what i meant.

I mean, it depends on your mission. Going into certain doom? Take level 4 everything and wear a soft vest underneath. Worried about protecting your home? I would still rock a level 4 front plate, but IIIA side panels will protect you from Tyrese' hipoint.

nah. side plates aren't just a non-meme, but i'd say they're necessary. That space will be used anyway so you're better off protecting yourself more. you only get one life

One of the more important aspects of armor is how you feel wearing it. Never discount your personal comfort and mobility in regards to plates/carrier setups. You can have more armor than some APC's, but does it mean anything when you're uncomfortable as hell?
Personally, I don't care for side plates, but that's just a personal preference.

They're useful for when additional coverage is a better choice than a lighter loadout. It might be a better investment to upgrade your mains to quality ceramics.

Think Hesco 4400 or Highcom 4-SAS-7. RMA 1092's are useful. Keep the Level III versus IV situation in mind. IIIs are always capable of stopping six fair hits of 7.62x51mm M80 while IVs are only required to stop one hit of .30-06 M2AP. Sometimes a III might be better than a IV, especially if you need to bank on the plates lasting more than one shot.

What's the premiere Gucci plate brand?

I need cheap rifle-rated plates.

I'm never going to get shot and I don't care about the Civil War 2: The Legend of Curly's Gold so I don't care if they're "good" but the match I'm shooting requires rifle-rated plates.

Where can I find the absolute cheapest plates?

we got a few
mostly unobtainium like ATT, BAE, Ceradyne, Velocity Systems

Ceradyne's IMP/PACT series is the Bugatti of plates. Rarely less than $1,500 a unit, these plates offer a totally unheard of level of performance. Non-standalone plates as light as 3.9lb could stop eight hits of 5.56x45mm M995 AP, while plates as light as 4.2lb could stop ten M995 at 1" shot spacing or even 2-3 hits of .30-06 M2AP.

Probably something from Alibaba or indiamart. There's some bottom dollar plates on there if you'd like to take a look.

Hesco 4400s or user's Botach ones earlier in the thread
if you don't care about performance there's cheap, dubiously effective ones on ebay

>Anonymous 08/12/19(Mon)21:29:22 No.423

Highcom, RMA, and Hesco's 4400s are your go-to "el cheapo" options. Avoid the really cheap stuff like Botach. They seem to have chinese undersized / non-monolithic strike faces.

bumpski

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It's worth keeping in mind, especially for eurofugs, that the NIJ isn't the only authority on body armor. SAPIs, ESAPIs, and XSAPIs are not NIJ-certified and are tested under separate military standards. The Europeans have equally-valid, if not superior VPAM, SK, and GOST standards.

For soft armor, look to supplementary certifications for DEA and FBI protocols. Those run the vests against harder threats than NIJ IIIA, ensuring that the armor is more effective in actual field use.

Wait so what plates stop modern ap rounds like m995 /m993

Who would you suggest instead of AR500? Serious question, I want quality stuff. (Preferably steel not ceramic)

a few spook plates like those from ATT tactical but they're gay and retarded and dumb and won't sell to me

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There's a fairly wide variety of them. I'll give a list by manufacturer:
Leading Technology Composites: 28550, 28590, 28595, 28601 XSAPI.
ATT Tactical / Hesco: Model 4520
Ceradyne: MH3 CQB (M995-only), IMP/PACT series, XSAPIs, Model AA4.
BAE Systems: XSAPIs.
TenCate: CX-950 IC, certain 'LIBA' 20-hit plates, NIJ-V CeraFlex (old).
Tehinkom: Unidentified GOST-6A+ 'Granit' plates, 7N24 / M995 only.

All XSAPIs can stop three hits of either M993 at 3,100fps or M995 at 3,300fps. All post-REV. G ESAPIs like the Ceradyne type VI-10 can stop either three hits of .30-06 M2AP at 2,850fps or three hits of M995 at 3,250-3,300 FPS.

I'm not really the guy to talk to about steel. I'm fairly biased against it. I'm a ceramicfag. I know there's viable options for steelies elsewhere, but I don't remember the specifics. Somebody else can help you there. If you want good ceramics suppliers on the other hand, I can help out.

look up MIL-DTL-46100E
there's your best bet for steel as it's purpose-made armor steel as opposed to AR500 which is made for abrasion resistance

see

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Please note that steels made with this material, such as Highcom / Chase Tactical's AR1000 is still only rated against M193 up to 3,150fps. Out of a 20" barrel, M193 can be expected to reach up to 3,350fps. That's a fat margin, one that definitely brings the worth of these plates into doubt.

Simply put, ceramics are better in a common CONUS environment for when overt armor is tolerable. Steel plates, as poorly-curved as they are, have the advantage of being thinner and thus more concealable.

correct, but steel also can be made to order e.g. custom thickness, shape, etc. whereas ceramic comes from the factory a done deal unless you're a major, major buyer. This makes steel ideal for the DIYer, who might want to uparmor something like an EOD suit, for example.

That doesn't resolve several problems with steel, which I'll list.

1. Steel is very often curved after it is hardened. This puts stress on the material and may result in ballistic failure. As such, there is a limit to what steel can economically be curved to.

2. Spall. Steel plates will send fragments into your face if the angle is just right. Those truck-liner anti-spall layers only work for so long and vary in quality.

3. High velocity threats. Even the mightiest of steel plates, the .338 Lapua-rated AMI TAC3S, is vulnerable to M193 out of a longer barrel. That's a one-inch thick steel-polyethylene composite.

4. Weight. A Level III steel plate weighs more than a considerable amount of affordable Level IV or III/IV dual-rated plates. A Level IV steel plate would weigh north of 13lb for a 10x12". Ceramics that heavy are typically those in the .50 BMG / 12.7x108mm B-32 API arena like the Ceradyne SARVIPs.

Fun fact. All of AR500 Armor's products on the NIJ Certification list are actually TenCate plates. Their steel plates are not present. That tells you their real level of quality, as well as the extents they'll go to in order to deceive consumers.

What's the word on UHWMPE plates? I understand they're defeated by m855 easily. Are they still worth a shot, or are there any variants that stop this awfully common round?

They're only going to get lighter. If you don't mind conceding M855 protection out, you can potentially get excellent multi-hit protection against M80, M193, and 7.62x39mm MSC from a sub-2.5lb plate like the Hesco 3800.

You are obviously extremely knowledgeable about this topic, could you please reccomend me one of those options?

My concerns are home defense and urban warfare during civil unrest, so protection is my primary concern, cost my secondary, and weight a tertiary concern.

Thank you user.

O great and wise ceramicfag, was this a mistake?

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Ceradyne

Do you think they'd stop a SLAP round? (7.62)

That user here. The overall best of those options is the LTC 28595. It's 4.7lb for a swimmer's cut medium, it's standalone, and is rated to stop a single hit of M993 at 3,150fps. This piece is $2,000 a unit and is the current Tactical Stand Alone insert of USSOCOM. They'll want it back, so be very careful if you see one on the open market. Another option is a surplus (stolen) XSAPI.

But since protection is your primary concern, I recommend the TenCate CX-950 IC. This rather heavy piece is a non-standalone plate and is rated to stop at least three hits of 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP. This round can defeat virtually all Level IV plates out to 350 meters away. This is 200 meters further than what M993 can do at standard velocity. Contact TenCate to see if they can deal one to you.

IMP/PACT plates are configured to match certain threats. There's no doubt that Ceradyne could cook you up a plate capable of stopping M948, although it would certainly be heavier than the M993 model.

Christ that's a scary thought. How the fuck can people hope to fight feds with access to shit like that?

Luckily for you, the Feds aren't equipped with plates these good. The ATF makes use of the KDH ASP plate, which is rated to stop two hits of .30-06 M2AP or ten hits of M855 / M193. It weighs 6.6lb and appears to be a new-model LTC. The FBI makes use of Hesco U210s, Hesco 4800s, and LTC 28601 XSAPIs. They rarely use the 28601s however, and I assume they're reserved only for specific situations that warrant them. Border patrol flat out only uses Hesco 3800C's and other lightweight plates.

So, let's talk Botach here

>Are they better than AR500?
>What about thd Mr guns and shill video?
>If you're so poor that $70 for another brand of plates is too much should you just not get armor instead of these?
>Is there any independent info on them,m

Yea I kinda want to know as well I’ve seen a bunch of videos of ar500 plates stopping 50 bmg non ap rounds anyway and Iv8888 shot one with a cannon. Every product has some bad manufacturing points it doesn’t matter if it’s guns cars or refrigerators

>hey, man, this non-armor being sold as armor, which is known to vary widely in effectiveness from batch to batch because it's not fucking made to be armor, are just bad batches
>and I'll only find out if I got lucky with which batch mine was when I'm getting shot in the chest, which is the exact same way you find out if a car or refrigerator is reliable

When it comes to budget armor, RMA is superior to either Botach or AR500 Armor. Just watch out for their 1189 and first-generation 1199. Those have undersized strike faces and don't provide the coverage you would expect at first glance. Hesco and Highcom are for the most part superior to any of those three, but their nice options cost considerably more. RMA's 1092 is a pretty good plate while the second-generation 1199 is a 4.7lb Level IV Standalone with a claimed full-size strike face. That's pretty good and all, but I'm suspicious it's one of those "one shot and it's done" Level IVs.

>Iv8888 shot one with a cannon
this is why people get away with selling snake oil. Why retards continue to fund absolute cash grabs.
a cannon ball is an extremely slow moving projectile that, while weighing quite a bit, has a very large bearing surface and cannot penetrate a hardened surface 1/1000th as well.
It is a meaningless comparison, aimed at impressing retards like yourself. A guerilla marketing campaign at its finest.

Be careful about Youtube tests. They're not scientific, are rarely done under repeatable conditions, very rarely (if ever) do batch testing, and can be gamed in the name of special / financial interest.

>Going into certain doom? Take level 4 everything and wear a soft vest underneath.

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>plates as light as 4.2lb could stop ten M995 at 1" shot spacing
That's pretty fucking crazy for the weight.

It's only natural for a company like Ceradyne. They've been making ceramic plates since the 1960s, starting with the VBAGTs and the infamous aircrew Chicken Plates. In the 1980s and 1990s, they sold 12.7x108mm B-32 API rated plates to the US Military for use in the SARVIP system, and also sold .50 BMG rated plates to the British Army for handling snipers in North Ireland. Nowadays, they're one of the largest dealers in SAPIs, ESAPIs, and XSAPIs to the US Military. This specific ten-hit IMP/PACT plate, known as the MH3 CQB, was marketed by Paraclete around 2005. Here's an archive link for it.
web.archive.org/web/20050216023818/http://www.paracletearmor.com/Armor/MH3HAPB4C.htm

Word on the street is that they've improved in the fourteen years since then. Here's a Ceradyne document on the IMP/PACT series itself, providing generic threat levels and corresponding weights.
web.archive.org/web/20040328165322/http://ceradyne.com:80/Uploads/Ceradyne_ARMOR_Brochure.pdf

Word on the street is that they've made some gains since then... and may have non-standalone M995 protection down to well below the 3.9lb in the above link.

Well boys did I screw the pooch on this then, spent $342 on this for plates, side plates, and trauma pads and thought I was gonna be okay.

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>fake armor
You sodomized your dog.

Oh yes sir you did screw the pooch on that one. Worst case scenario is that you just flip everything at 10% off on Armslist, or maybe hold until the market shifts and they're worth more than you paid for them.

Fuck it, they’re not even in the mail yet. I ordered them yesterday. Now I’m trying to figure out how to make sure they don’t fuck me over on a “return” and give me some worthless ass store credit. I’m thinking that I can just do a RTS and have some patience.

STOP BUYING STEEL ARMOR
STOP BUYING FUCKING STEEL ARMOR
NONE of that shit is NIJ tested. None of it. For all you know it won't stop a 22. Of course, it will, but the performance of the plates will vary by batch because it's literally steel cut into armor.
Fancy coatings and marketing will not, ultimately, fix the fact that you went with a shitty, less protective option on the basis of some faggot on youtube saying it was "just as good". Most of that shit does not protect against standard 5.56 rounds including newest military issue M855A1. 3+ is a meme. There is no standard for it and no proof it will stop anything it claims to be rated for.

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So I bought an ar500 plate carrier and I’m gonna shoot it this week to see if it holds up

sounds like vapor-deposited bulk diamond over SIC matrix

same i did it for the lulz

you're fucking retarded and i dont understand where this misinformation comes from. if a plate passes level iv requirements it is also supposed to stop anything the lower levels do. its a cumulative thing, not just different types. iv plates offer better protection than iii plates always

Not defending ar500 but are you suggesting a fridge or car can't fail in a way that endangers you?

This, inrange and Dugan did a spall test on ar500. Bad spalling from .308, little to none from 556 but then on a second plate 5.45 spalled into what would be your face. Even when it stops rounds whether or not that shit shatters into your face cant be reliably known.

You can get level 4 ceramics from hoplite for only 50 bucks more a plate there is no excuse

condor pc is bad honestly the crye jpc is pretty cheap, so is the mayflower apc which are gonna be two of your best options until you triple the price. shooter cut is ok, depending on how skinny it can be better, full cut is bad though, doesnt fit in all carriers and mostly is not as comfortable as sapi while offering a negligible increase in coverage. also i dont know if the shooters cut you have is single or multi curve. if multi then good, if not then uncomfortable af. the military spent a lot of money figuring out which shape of plate works best, i like sapi cut very much

>IIIs are always capable of stopping six fair hits of 7.62x51mm M80 while IVs are only required to stop one hit of .30-06 M2AP
You do realize that 30-06 AP has significantly more penetrative capability than lead core 762, right? Level 4 is also rated for that.

my IIIa from work will stop 5.56 and 7.62 commie. but not AP
I don't bother putting in the plates

They are still around $125 a plate. Gota source?

schumers making noise about armor.

RMA is doing a sale. how are RMAs?

Will any hard IIIA plates stop this stuff reliably?

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Yes, I believe the Wound Channel did a video on this. Soft armor wont stop it but hard will.

It's kind of funny to think that the only thing a body armor ban accomplishes is making it easier for the government to kill you. I'm a self admitted moderate about gun laws but banning body armor really rubs me the wrong way. There is precisely zero offensive utility to body armor. The worst you could do is beat someone to death with a plate, and there are way better ways to get someone dead. I'd like to hope that there would be a couple voices of reason calling foul on the government ensuring that it's easier for them to kill citizens, but I'm all out of hope.

Botach is an israeli money laundering front. You should not be giving them your business.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmuley_Boteach
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efraim_Diveroli

i sort of understand the australian one because that dude ned shitposted his way into history a long time ago causing the common wealthy to seethe.

its still bullshit and i dont understand why aussies cant have pump shotguns.

That's entirely false. See the NIJ 0101.06 standard.
ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/223054.pdf

The only requirement for Level IV besides stopping one hit of .30-06 M2AP is that it also stops at least one round of the prior level, which is III. Please read the actual standards before commenting on them.

Here's another source, an actual armor manufacturer, also stating that III and IV are not directly linear.

"A level IV must stop a single hit of 7.62MM AP “Black Tip”, which is effectively a .30-06 Armor Piercing bullet. Note the difference in shot count between a level III (6 shots) and level IV (1 shot) certification. Depending on the situation, level IV is therefore not automatically better than level III, despite the higher numerical ranking."

midwestarmor.com/how-to-choose-the-right-body-armor/

someone should write Expedient Home Made Body Armor

I'm also curious about DIY options

just wrap yourself in duct tape

hard plates are just 3, not 3A

dayum

youtube.com/watch?v=zy05IPs1UTE

Poor mans body armor
youtube.com/watch?v=_7jiIQOgwtI&t=28s

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based

They are about 150 now but they just had a 20% off sale on their website a few days ago not sure if its still going on

I'm a fucking retard about armor, and whenever I look up NIJ approved armor only AR500 shows up, but I know it's not NIJ approved. What are some NIJ approved level III and IIIA plates? Links would really be appreciated.

look up the brands in the OP pic
when in doubt, use USGI stuff if you can afford it
helps to shop locally so you can physically inspect the plates before you buy them

This seems like a good deal, thoughts?
midwestarmor.com/products/lancer-iii-a/

So I'm looking at these, but how the hell does the sizing work (once again retarded). chasetactical.com/product/chase-tactical-34i1-level-iii-iv-icw-armor-plate/

there's SAPI sizes (S, M, L, XL) and the "standard" size 10"x12" which is in bewteen M and L

Are they comparable to shirt sizes?

google.com/search?q=SAPI sizes

Will RIT dye or even spraypaint mess up a PC? I don't wear black