How functional would a working civil war cannon be in urban warfare...

Rule one of slapping shit together: if it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid.

Why would I shoot it backwards

10/10 post
hitting the splc or NYT HQ with a 12 pounder gets me hard

What you have is a small cannon, with wheels&trail for mobility. It shoots shot or shell, but any force desperate enough to use one of these probably can't supply it with explosive shell. Solid shot and (improvised)Canister Shot will be what you have, so combined with the urban fighting this thing would be doing exclusively short-range work:
+ apers ambush + anti-vehicle ambush
+- taking out fortified positions (from dead zones only, because of the smallarms threat )
+ opening mouseholes for urban assault - the dust and noise will be of value in addition to creating holes, but not having shell means it may take multiple shots to make a big enough hole for men with gear strapped on
+ harassment fire(direct). this could potentially be done from medium range. Find out where their RSTA teams are shacking up, wait for them to slacken discipline(not making rounds, not checking all angles, falling asleep), then wake up the whole building by punching a hole in it
+final protective fire of a fixed position

in all of those cases you want a covered escape route available and a towing team
It needs to be kept hidden. The minimum of people on both sides should know it exists until it fires its first shot. It is a force multiplier despite its drawbacks, and as such it will become a high-priority target once its presence is revealed.

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Very good for close range ambushes (you can literally stuff it with random shit and it into a giant shotgun, the overpressure from a full blast alone is enough to kill within 30 feet) or blowing down the walls of buildings. Unfortunately the reload time and its bulkiness preclude it from being useful outside of those two niches.

t. Confederate artillery re-enactor

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I can only imagine it being effective in ambushes and harassment from a distance, over and down a hill so the geography can protect your artillery crew.

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Nah, Id rather see the Black Bloc eat some grapeshot.

Anything to save pregnant Anne Frank!

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Can we agree that any future civil war has to be fought using similar tactics as the first, but modern weapons are allowed.
I want to see line warfare with semi-auto rifles and whatever artillery can be scrounged up.

Literally no side would win in that scenario.
We'd all be dead and or cinders.

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Sounds good to me

The civil war was mostly fought via trench warfare. The line volley shit stopped within the first year.

I'm starting to wonder what the Confederate States WWII uniforms would have potentially looked like, and whether or not they'd actually fight in the European theatre or the Pacific, or if they'd go completely isolationist.
Neat stuff to think about.

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This
Snipers were a huge problem, and a Calvary charge was the most horrific and anticipated event. Everyone died

Breastworks hardly count as trenches.
Petersburg saw some extensive, deep trench use, but that obviously didn't last too long.

Depends whether the Confederates and Union end up on speaking terms, or whether it turns into a Turtledove-esque "every war is an excuse for another civil war" memeathon.

Probably Khaki or Grey.

What would the confederacy adopt as a bolt action? Some type of Mauser?

What's the max effective range on the modern reproduction guns? Would they actually have enough power to cause any amount of serious damage to buildings? Has anyone tried loading sabot rounds for them?

Either Enfield's or Lebel's.
Maybe that one Mexican rifle.

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Just a whiff

I think any kind of heavy, metal tube with a lot of gunpowder shoved in it and some kind of steel shot will assuredly break concrete and shatter brickwork.

You get one shot a cannon. Make it count.

I think after enough pissing and whining they'd adopt most of the same equipment as the North and Canada. What's more interesting is what equipment would crop up, or not crop up due to the now divided facilities.

The US might be the only place in the world where there are more black-powder cannons then there are grenade launchers.

On the bright side, your enemy would be completely shocked as to what just hit them, and the smoke from the cannons would provide decent cover, enough to at least get one more volley off.

youtube.com/watch?v=BuaZrByGSX8
Pure sex.

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Based

>Canister shot directly into neo-nazi demonstrations.
That's a lot of words to just say you're a homosexual.

>Unfortunately the reload time and its bulkiness preclude it from being useful outside of those two niches.
I wonder if you could pre fill plastic bags full of shot and use that as quick load ammunition. The force could be enough to rip the bags open and spread the shot and then you won't spend so much time filling the barrel.

Not him, but is this bait?

This, but the cannon is rifled and shoots one of those bullet shaped projectiles rather than a ball. How would this change the situation?

That is literally what they did back then retard?

b8

Didn't they have functioning HE shells in the Civil War? You could conceivably do a lot of damage with those.

You can't load it anymore

They had fuctioning rifled cannons in the civil war though? Granted they used it in fuckhuge cannons on sea forts against ships but I'm sure we could downsize it to scale for a field cannon. How exactly would it prevent you from loading it?

>Didn't they have functioning HE shells in the Civil War?
Yep.

Too much friction to ram a shot down the barrel.

Writefag here.

The basic Confederate States Army uniform going into World War II is essentially unchanged from 1860s (albeit far more standardized) with the standard summer uniform being the Columbus Depot Type III shell jacket. A short grey (although butternut brown is temporarily reintroduced for the North Africa campaign, suggestions to have it replace grey, owing to the latter’s similar appearance to German uniforms are outright rejected) wool jacket with six brass buttons (later models switch to bone or plastic), and service trimming on the collar and cuffs in red, blue, yellow, white, and black. Autumn uniforms consist of the Richmond Depot Model 1920 Frock Coat (essentially a longer version of the Columbus Depot Type III stretching to the knees). A “naked” (with any kind of identifying service trimming removed) version of the Columbus Depot jacket is worn by Special Operations Command personnel, support and logistics troops, foreign liaisons (usually translators from occupied European countries), and black soldiers. Beginning in mid-1944, North Carolina regiments are issued experimental sack coats with minimal service trimming on the collar and shoulder boards as an all-weather replacement for the two uniforms.

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Headgear consists of the ubiquitous French-style kepi, Hardee hats, and certain slouch hats from authorized vendors. Because the Confederacy had not participated in World War I, the usefulness of helmets is not widely recognized and widely derided as “tin hats”, with the German coal scuttle helmet in particular being the target of abuse. In reality, the Confederate States Army had been developing a combat helmet in the run up to war, but it had been largely based on the German Stahlhelm and deemed unacceptable for use. The Brodie, Adrian, and M1 helmets had similarly been rejected, owing to both their foreign appearance, cost, and the (largely validated) belief that continued use of soft headgear would prevent friendly fire incidents, which Confederate troops were already at serious risk of because of their grey uniforms.

Confederate web gear and footwear is a substantial improvement over the 1860s, with the American M-1928 haversack and M43 combat boot being copied.

By comparison, American troops wear identical uniforms to their OTL counterparts, albeit using a darker shade of green (known as Berdan Green) and almost completely omitting the use of khaki, owing to its still negative association with the Confederacy.

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Some Confederate Army units, ones traditionally known for their elite status or composed of graduates of training programs such as Jungle Warfare School, Ranger School, Airborne School, LRRP training, and the Alamo Scouts Training Center are issued custom uniforms, made by private tailors, to allow them to stand out from the regular Army and strike fear into German troops. Such units include Alpha Company 11th Mississippi Infantry Regiment, Hotel Company 6th Texas Infantry, Washington Light Infantry, and perhaps the most infamous, 1st Louisiana Special Battalion, who gain notoriety for their immense courage and extreme brutality.

Overall, the adherence to traditionalism, unwillingness to change, and desire to stand out give Confederate soldiers a unique, if rather bizarre look from the rest of the Western Allies. With even Anne Frank taking note of their rather antiquated appearance in her diary.

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Same for commies and lgqbtqlsvrbdkf scums
Also to jews, cops, whiteys, spics chinks, government, halal bastards etc.
All blood is the same for blood god.

The way I have it written, the 1914 Pattern Enfield has been the standard issue rifle of the Confederate States Army since 1915. In 1931, the Colt Monitor is formally adopted as the M1927 Infantry Automatic Rifle to augment the firepower of the Pattern Enfield. Frustrating setbacks in the development of a select-fire magazine fed rifle lead to the partial adoption of the M1941 Mississippi Rifle (formerly known as the Johnson Rifle in American service) and .276 Pedersen PA as a stopgap measure. Unfortunately this creates sometimes extreme logistics problems with three separate cartridges in service (although the rifles themselves are well-liked). The decision is made in 1943 by General in Chief of the Armies of the Confederate States George Marshall that .303 and .276 will be phased out upon war’s end and that all future Confederate infantry rifles will developed in .30-06 Springfield.

d by the United States' prioritizing M1s for its own military, although they are allowed to toy with the design. A partnership with Winchester finally culminates in the development of the T20A1 in late-1942. Essentially an M1 Garand redesigned with select fire, a pistol grip, a rail system for optics (mostly privately purchased hunting scopes), and now fed from 20 round Colt Monitor magazines, the T20 is regarded as a revolutionary design, more advanced than its contemporaries being fielded in any Axis or Allied armies. Originally scheduled to begin full service in 1945 after it's issues have worked out, Confederate troops encounter the StG 44 for the first time in Italy and Poland abruptly change this. So impressed are they at the performance of the Sturmgewehr that the Confederate Army is under the mistake impression that it will quickly replace the Kar98 and decide to cancel further trials and order the T20 into mass production immediately, with two Airborne regiments being completely outfitted with them just in time for Operation Overlord.

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The way I have it written, the 1914 Pattern Enfield has been the standard issue rifle of the Confederate States Army since 1915. In 1931, the Colt Monitor is formally adopted as the M1927 Infantry Automatic Rifle to augment the firepower of the Pattern Enfield. Frustrating setbacks in the development of a select-fire magazine fed rifle lead to the partial adoption of the M1941 Mississippi Rifle (formerly known as the Johnson Rifle in American service) and .276 Pedersen PA as a stopgap measure. Unfortunately this creates sometimes extreme logistics problems with three separate cartridges in service (although the rifles themselves are well-liked). The decision is made in 1943 by General in Chief of the Armies of the Confederate States George Marshall that .303 and .276 will be phased out upon war’s end and that all future Confederate infantry rifles will developed in .30-06 Springfield.

Attempts to adopt the M1 are frustrated by the US prioritizing production for its own military, although the CSA is allowed to toy with the design. A partnership with Winchester finally culminates in the development of the T20A1. Essentially an M1 Garand with select fire, a pistol grip, a rail system for optics (mostly privately purchased hunting scopes), and now fed from 20 round Colt Monitor magazines, the T20 is regarded as revolutionary, more advanced than its contemporaries being fielded in Axis or Allied armies. Originally scheduled to begin full service in 1945 after it's issues have worked out, Confederate troops encounter the StG 44 for the first time in Italy and Poland abruptly change this. So impressed are they at the performance of the Sturmgewehr that the Confederate Army is under the mistake impression that it will quickly replace the Kar98 and decide to cancel further trials and order the T20 into mass production immediately, with two Airborne regiments being completely outfitted with them just in time for Operation Overlord.

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The problem isn’t with loading (we already put powder into prepared aluminum canisters and would do the same with actual shot), it’s the cleaning.

You see, we have to wet (literally shoving a sponge soaked in water down the barrel) and dry (ditto, but with a dry sponge) the gun at least two times every time we fire it, and that’s probably the longest and most tedious part of the process.

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A rifled cannon has to be breach loaded. If the rifling is to have an effect the shot has to have almost the same size as the barrel. This might be possible today with precision machinery but wasn't back then and isn't practical today.

I doubt anybody would be using them as historically intended though. You’d see people rigging them onto pickup trucks, and loading them with makeshift shot, ect. The best application would be using them slightly buried into the ground, and interlocking fields of fire, an area of denial type trap.

>With even Anne Frank taking note

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Rifled artillery predated the Civil war. Some like the Parrott gun were muzzle loading and used extensively by both sides.

But if we had two cannons we could aim one at the commies too

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Is it a canister of food and money?

I think the awnser to both would be which major European power would they ally with.

The dumbest ideas ever are like the CSA wearing 19yh century inspired uniforms in WW2, or Roman's dressing like 1st century legionaries in modern times. The US weren't wearing field blue in WW1, and the Japanese wearing wearing samurai armor once they adopted European tactics.

As for which theater, due to the population and the threat of a US invasion, in a world war they would mostly be fighting a defensive war, unless the US was allied, or knocked out, they couldnt risk a neutral US changing its mind and deciding to invade

They’d be good for supporting artillery embankments or a line of defense for a shelter that’s not too important or delaying intruders so you can plan a bug out. Would get less deadly the more it was used in combat since people would get size. Also you have the trade off of expensive cannonballs that can potentially kill several targets but are more expensive to produce, reload and take out less dense forces or you can use some kind of improvised scattershot that’s cheap, takes far less resources, easier to reload, much more potential spread than a ball but has the potential to be completely mitigated by more powerful armor.

Probably not all that effective, but it would be fucking rad.

What’s the potential risk of not cleaning it?

+1 kill em all.

Big Kaboom at the exact moment you dont need it

my thoughts exactly
>give these niggas a volly

Fuck that. Instead of clearing out project buildings and slaughtering everyone inside, draw them out with cannon fire or bring the whole goddamn hive down.

if you used one I would use it in an ambush, siege, or as an emplacement in defense.

the cannon would be slow to reload, reposition, and fire. its effective range is much less than of modern munitions. its use as an anti-armor gun is fairly limited. its use as an antipersonnel weapon is out performed by less burdening small arms.

HOWEVER

as a anti-material weapon and area devastation weapon it is competitive to the common mortar. the mortar is however lighter and man portable making any benefit of the cannon inferior to it by the pure value maneuverability. as a fixed position weapon it is able to deliver equivalent or greater destructive value.

I would put the cannons with your light mechanized infantry militias in the same formation as mortar teams. anything larger than a 10" rifled cannon will start to impeded combat effectiveness. anything smaller than a 2" cannon will not be damaging enough for combat.

I think it would be possible to carry 2" cannons on portable rigs that can be fired by a two man team on light strike vehicle (ATV/motor bike/ go-cart).

>Georgia flamers units? the phoenix rises, incendiary and sabotage specialist.

>confederate air corps, the union was slow on the uptake, only making balloons after the confederacy was mostly finished with one constructed by volunteers.

>they could have their helmets shaped like that just with metal backing case example is the "cowboy hard hat" effective enough for shrapnel still stylish. looks like a normal hat from a distance.

>wide spread use of box fed lever-gat much like the British Mark V lee enfeild.

WHY WOULD THEY ADOPT A BOLT ACTION?

Lever-gat to win the west, less government oversight, less bias, more solder enthusiasm. developed a box fed lever-gat well before WWI.

Didn't they mostly not use lever actions in the civil war due to poorer range, higher cost, and generally they weren't quite refined yet?

It going off when you don't want it to.

Rather aim both at the commies.

Chill, no reason to be an uppity little bitch.

If you fail to clean the gun, there’s a significant chance that there will still be burning embers within the barrel. Load another charge and if any loose powder makes contact with the embers, the charge goes off, blowing the rammer (the big wooden pole we use to insert it) out the barrel, which would likely kill or at the very least severely maim the two loaders in front as well as any person unfortunate to be caught in its path. In addition, the No. 3 crewman who had his hand covering the vent would likely have his thumb incinerated by the jet of flame shooting out the vent.

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Based. Both nazis and commies are freedom-hating faggots, it's just that commies have more political power right now, and nazis are more or less confined to the internet and meetups.

Yeah, Anne Frank’s not exactly the brightest bulb when it comes to North American geo-politics. Although she knows the history and geography of Europe like the back of her hand, Anne found American geography and history alien and difficult to comprehend with it’s bizarre borders and cultural obsession with concepts such as the rejection of monarchy, Democracy, Republicanism, and States’ Rights, and largely failed her classes on the subject. As a result, Anne barely realizes that the Confederacy even exists, having met a Confederate only once at the age of 8, and her only knowledge of the Civil War is gleaned from overly romanticized books/movies such as Gone With the Wind (she basically knows that Confederates hate Americans and not much else). Her lover, Peter, is somewhat more knowledgeable on the Civil War, owing to a passing interest in Americana/Dixiecana and military history, but still woefully inadequate, owing to his reading poorly translated and often politically charged history books (such as his mistaken impression that the South broke away from the Union because it was not allowed to abolish slavery, a mistake that Confederate book editors, their country still reeling from the massive political embarrassment over slavery, had deliberately failed to correct).

This story is basically the two of them receiving a crash-course in the American Civil War and messy world of Southern politics in all its bloody glory. Rife with religious fundamentalism, backstabbing, scheming, parliamentary violence, racism, Yankeephobia, inter-state rivalry, and government conspiracies both real and imagined.

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>Georgia flamers units? the phoenix rises, incendiary and sabotage specialist.

Confederate troops are actually exceedingly fond of employing incendiary ordinance on German troops (owing to its ability to inflict mass casualties and psychological impact) and are at the forefront of research and development on White Phosphorus and Napalm.

>confederate air corps, the union was slow on the uptake, only making balloons after the confederacy was mostly finished with one constructed by volunteers.

The Confederate States Air Force is actually created as a result of the USAAF founder Billy Mitchell’s successfully attacking Confederate warships in a border dispute shortly after the end of WWI, which were so badly damaged that it convinced Confederate leaders that air power was worth investing in.

>they could have their helmets shaped like that just with metal backing case example is the "cowboy hard hat" effective enough for shrapnel still stylish. looks like a normal hat from a distance.

The Confederacy does not participate in WWI, and thus, the grim lessons that forced the adoption of helmets in that conflict were not fully appreciated until much later.

>wide spread use of box fed lever-gat much like the British Mark V lee enfeild.

Lever actions actually see practically no service in the Confederate Army, owing to an American arms embargo that isn’t repealed until the 1930s. The standard issue Confederate rifle from the 1870s until the 1900s is the Martini-Henry, imported from Great Britain.

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>The dumbest ideas ever are like the CSA wearing 19yh century inspired uniforms in WW2

Eh, the French Army marched off to war in 1914 still wearing the red and blue uniforms that they had become legendary for since the Napoleonic Wars. Even going into WWII, many of the lesser powers such as Poland, Bulgaria, and Hungary still had soldiers using gear that had essentially been unchanged for 40-50 years. Even German uniforms were initially designed very focused on being good for parade and not so much for utility.

>As for which theater, due to the population and the threat of a US invasion, in a world war they would mostly be fighting a defensive war, unless the US was allied, or knocked out, they couldnt risk a neutral US changing its mind and deciding to invade

The Confederate and United States are actually pushed into an alliance during the 1930s with the Great Depression and rise of Fascism forcing them to put aside their 70 year long enmity. It’s a still shaky friendship and the Axis Powers largely fail to take it seriously until far too late.

As for fronts, the Confederate States only declare war on Nazi Germany and the Tripartite Pact signatories, with troops fighting on the Western Front and to a lesser extent in the Eastern Front (Confederate special forces working to ensure Poland and Czechoslovakia do not fall into Soviet hands, as well as destabilize the pro-Axis governments of Hungary and Romania). Despite nearly declaring war on Japan after Pearl Harbor, the Confederacy largely sits out the Pacific War, owing to a lack of major stakes in Asia, and a strong sentiment among the voters that the Pacific is a “Yankee” war.

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Bolt Actions were considerably more reliable and less expensive

>How functional would a working civil war cannon be in urban warfare?

Fun fact, Paris is designed to ensure cannon can be used to maximum effectiveness in annihilating mobs

Fun fact: The Stonewall Brigade was one of the first to touchdown on Omaha Beach on D-Day.

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This Anne Frank - Confederate interaction stuff is starting to grow on me...

Good. That means it’s working :)

I figure Anne Frank makes an interesting protagonist because of how ignorant she would’ve been of the American Civil War in real life (owing to it being a “backwater” conflict taking place on another continent 80 years ago). Which would make her an independent observer of the bloody historical rivalry between two titanic powers.

Also it’s just interesting to postulate how events that took place decades, even centuries before we were born can have a profound impact on us. Her grandparents hadn’t even been born when the Civil War took place.

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Like WW1 era artillery. Use modern ammo, load through the muzzle, find your zero, fire, and wheel it back into zero.

>t. totally not a terrorist

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Based and Blue and Greypilled

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Trust me, you can’t safely use modern ordinary on these things

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What about custom loads with black powder and modern type projectiles? A lot of guys do that with muzzleloading rifles.

>European theatre or the Pacific, or if they'd go completely isolationist.

Isolationist, fuck the world.

Didn't they used to load these suckers with just random sharp debris and launch it at other ships or troops? I'd say if you take that route, super effective for crowd control and just straight suppression.

Nobody is trying to die of an infection

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You could probably design modern shell for a Civil War cannon but that would be a trial and error process. You certainly can’t just stick ordinance for modern guns in one and expect it not to explode

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The cheapest garbage they could get their hands on, so Nagant will get another customer.
>P14
Yes a poor rural nation will get the most expensive small arms of it's time.

>P14
>Colt Monitor
>Johnson
>.276 Pedersen
The Confederacy is not an outlet for your wet dreams Ian, take your garbage weapons somewhere else.

They shot used for ships were heavy, a warship was quite sturdy built so simple musket balls did not carry enough energy to penetrate the wood.

Just because the technology is old should it be considered useless. A civil war era cannon is a potent weapon. Even a small 10-pounder is capable of delivering accurate fire at a range of well over a mile, and has a maximum range of nearly 2.5 miles. An excellent example.of the effectiveness of these weapons is the siege of Fort Pulaski, near Savannah, GA. Fort Pulaski, a masonry fort prtecting the sea approach to Savannah, was very heavily fortified, armed, and provisioned. Massive smoothbore guns, with range of 1200 yards, protected land and sea approaches. Shot furnaces capable of producing thousands of red-hot balls on a daily basis gave the fortress a huge edge against ships, and well-laid out fields of fire made a land approach suicidal. In the best estimates of military engineers at the time, Fort Pulaski could comfortably survive a being simultaneously besieged by land and sea for at least 36 days, and up to three times that duration with starvation rations. Unable to approach close enough to use shipboard cannon, and unwilling to simply feed infantry into a meatgrinder, Union commanders set up a battery of Parrott rifles 2200 yards away on Tybee Island. In the course of a single day of shelling, the Parrott rifles opened a breach "large enough for four men to stand abreast" in the 6 foot thick outer wall. They then began firing explosive shells through this hole, into the powder magazine in the opposite corner of the fort. The Confederate commander, realizing what would happen if the shelling continued, surrendered. In 32 hours, Parrott rifles had brought down a fort that should have been able to hold for months. While I would not choose a blackpowder cannon first for a modern battlefield, I would not discount its effectiveness entirely, especially in a siege situation, or if I was facing an enemy with little or no artillery support of their own.

the objective with a lever action isn't range its volume of fire. the lever gat doesn't have an effective range too far beyond 500 yards but is on par the the mark IV lee enfeild and it was conceptualized earlier and was later adapte to use full length cartrages.

it actually saw a great deal of use in the western territories by private citizens and the military forces that purchased them on their own. the reason for its down fall in conventional history was an overwhelming appreciation of the German-spanish mauser.

if the confederacy wasn't in WWI it would probably have expanded into Spanish American basically reenacting the Spanish-american war and taking over the Caribbean and establishing a southern naval front and establishing its self as a naval power.

this interaction of being out ranged by the mauser is what caused the American military to opt to basically adopt the rifle, the lever gat was a strong competitor purely because of its volume of fire and Combat effective range of 100-200 yards common to confined warfare like jungle, forest, and hilly/mountainous terrain.

the need for long ranged to 500 yards or more comes from fighting in open plains, mountain peeks, open deserts, and tundra.

the movement for lever-gats would be one supported by the enlisted not the officers.

I agree even, I could see a general lack of modern equipment at the start of the war but after seeing the effectiveness of the allie forces any CSA force would atleast adopt a rendition of the British flat helm (in the shape of a hat) and a gray based fatigue with no flashy colors.

this would probably devolve into just normal camo fatigues by the end-war with the ceremonial cloths keeping the old confederate style.

however the purpose of the helmets was for shrapnel not armor for bullets.

I am reminded of how the Confederates at Kennesaw Mountian kept two cannons hidden and loaded with canister shot and maintained overall silence until the Yankees were basicly right in front of the artillery pieces.

The effect was apparently quite devastating.

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