So really, whats the practical difference between Bolt-Action and Lever-Action? Both have a similar rate of fire...

levergat is fine for trench warfare
And it's not like boltgat is inherently superior in trenches, the Ross rifle failed spectacularly in the muck.

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Dang. What was his accuracy like?

>Both have a similar rate of fire.
No they don't, retard.

You linked the wrong guy. Although 10 shots from a levergun is faster than 10 from a bolt, 100 from either is faster with a bolt

no box magazines

Lever guns are still in production and still quite popular.

However.

Bolt guns are easier to make strong actions for, which mattered in the era of full power guns.

Lever guns are generally more complex to manufacture.

Lever guns are less suitable for combat due to more complex actions and more ingress points for dirt and debris.

Winchester 1895 says hi.

To be fair. That's CAS and those are mouse fart 38spl loads in a slicked up 1873.

Deer haven't changed in millennia. A gun that was just as effective in 1880 is still effective in 2019.

That's fine and dandy, but in combat you're firing more than a single mag's worth of ammo. What's faster, reloading with a stripper clip or reloading a tube magazine?

Ready to shoot up the school.

Are you mag dumping or taking opportunity shots? Because it's a fuckload easier to drop two or three rounds into a fifteen round tube than 'oh shit' yourself when your ten rounds are gone.

>fifteen round tube
So now we're comparing .44 Henry to .303? I think I know which one I'd take into battle.

They are getting smarter, faster. Last time I was out for deer they started using different tactics and almost overwhelmed our position.

>Why did one pretty much die out while the other lasted for decades?

Lever guns have two main problems:
1) they don't work well with modern spitzer ammo like other anons already mentioned.

2) they have very weak primary extraction because they don't have the camming action of a bolt. That means it's very very hard to work a lever action on a modern high-pressure rifle caliber, though it's not a problem for cases which don't require a lot of extraction leverage, like lower pressure cowboy era cartridges or straight-walled pistol cartridges. You'd have to be the fucking hulk to work the lever on, say, a .308 or a .30-06.

Never get captured by texan deer, they know Jow Forums and dont take kindly to what you do to their does.

Browning makes a pretty smooth mag-fed levergun in .308. My neighbor had one, never shot it, but the action felt really smooth.

Smoothness isn't a problem. It's how hard you have to work the lever when you eject a fired case--not against friction, but to pull the expanded-after-firing brass out of the chamber. The geometry of the lever action is not well suited for this which is why you rarely see levergats made for modern rifle cartridges. It can be done, but they either don't work well, or require a more complicated (read: expensive and failure prone) complication of the mechanism.

>He'sa cowboy kid
>Yeahhefound asix-shootergunIn his dad's closet, in the box of fun things
>and I don't even know why
>Buthe'scomingfor you
>yeahhe'scoming for you

>the tube made spitzer bullets dangerous
This, and bolt actions can be much stronger.

user, if you had to pick one of these three, which one do you favor? Either one and then you have to defend the position on the ground as well and if you think that the tree will defend you, you are really fucked, or either one and then all of us get to live in a forest. The one that is the least interesting is the one with a forest in it (that would be if you live in a forest). It's basically an empty house, nothing but trees, trees no bigger than the head of a pin. It's the one I like best when it's not raining in the forest, or if I'm in a hurry to get to work and the tree is dead.

Oh no! Are you having a seizure?

Can't we just cut the points off the bullet or just use a polymer tip like on some HP rounds I don't see how spitzer bullets are really that dangerous in a tube, I doubt the modified bullet would affect ballistics or reliability all that much out of a lever action which isn't really a long range gun anyways.

>Can't we just cut the points off the bullet or just use a polymer tip like on some HP rounds
Yes, you can. In fact there is modern ammo made specifically for this purpose, like Hornady LeveRevolution.

> I don't see how spitzer bullets are really that dangerous in a tube
Pointy bullet tip sets off primer of the round next to it in a tube mag

The weak primary extraction of the levergun is still a problem though.

Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant to say with a modified bullet it shouldnt be all that dangerous. And if they already figured it out why don't we see a lot more offerings in common calibers despite the weak extraction.

>the tube made spitzer bullets dangerous
When will this fudd nonsense die out? There is no documented case of this happening.

lever action is for riding on horseback as a cowboy, bolt action is for crawling on the ground as a soldier. what more explanation do you need than that?

Don't ignore the Winchester 95 or the Savage 99, or a few others I can't remember right now, with their glorious internal magazines. I just got into loading 30-30 because I'm tired of always getting flat/round tip 30-30 and I wanna shoot POINTIES outta my 99.

Anyhow, both are fine and have strengths/weaknesses inherent to their function.

>imagine being this much of a fucking gamer
Life isn't Red Dead and Call of Duty, faggot.

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Lever actions are a lot more difficult to cycle prone or at rest. They also have a lot more complicated cycling mechanism that made them difficult to mass produce.

1v1 me faggit

Bro my dad is the president of the FBI I'll backtrace your IP if you ever threaten me again

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Ever taken a 1895 apart?

>You'd have to be the fucking hulk to work the lever on, say, a .308 or a .30-06
No you don't.

You'll be reported to the cyberpolice!

How is it "shit", they are perfectly adequate for their role and did great in their era. This is like saying muskets are shit. Deer dont shoot back user, and I'd wager there are far more hunting loadings for .30-30 than 7.62x39. Have you ever held a winchester 94 or 336? They're lighter than an AK. Which, for hunting, isnt a minor consideration when you have to haul the deer back even after dressing it. Until I run into a deer that calls in a fire mission and wears a plate carrier, it's a serviceable, accurate hunting round that does its job.

Bolt-actions can be easily field-stripped for maintenance, lever-actions require tools and a guide

Because operating a lever is cumbersome in a trench or lying behind cover.
Lever guns were and are still around for hunting, where you don't have incoming enemy fire and can stand or kneel.
Some early trench shotties were level, intended for dakka while running through the enemy trench.

I think you guys keep mistaking all usage of a gun as a viable battle implement. Not all guns need to be battle ready and that's where a lever shines

>7.62x39 or 308
>similar ballisrically

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>How is it "shit", they are perfectly adequate for their role and did great in their era.
I think it's obvious that user is looking back from a modern perspective.

> This is like saying muskets are shit.
They WERE the state of the art, many years ago.
They ARE shit by today's standards.

>>Not all guns need to be battle ready and that's where a lever shines

So you're saying that if we lower our standards then it becomes an acceptable gun?

I'm saying unless you find a Savage 340 or handload your own 308 with non spitzer bullets, a 30-30 is matured technology for a dense undergrowth deer rifle.

Pretty much because firing a lever action from prone is a bitch.

the only thing I could really think of is the fact that it's easier to make bolt action guns with bigger calibers than lever action guns
>.50
>.375 H&H
>.308

>both have a similar rate of fire

This guy has never seen The Rifleman or literally any cowboy action shooting match

>they’re similar ballisrically
wow you have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about holy shit

Rare, but they've happened even modified some gun tubes to attempt to offset this boogeyman in the past. But you're also talking about mercury primers when they were most likely to happen. If it can happen then someone can sue you over it, best to cover your bases as a company and protect people from themselves.

>whats the practical difference between Bolt-Action and Lever-Action?
In terms of the action, not much. The main difference lies in the fact that most lever action designs have a tube magazine and an elevator, but that is not inherent to the action, as evidenced by the Winchester model of 1895.

Wow holy fuck you’re retard.
Bullet of similar weight going similar velocity. Yeah they’re similar, dumbfuck.
30-30 is 100 FPS faster, maybe more if you load hotter.
7.62x39 is Under 30-30, 308 is above. Closer to x39 than 308.

>Bullet of similar weight going similar velocity
There's more to ballistics than this, dimwit

Box mag lever guns:

Winchester - 1895
Winchester - Model 88
Browning - BLR
Savage - 99
Henry - Long Ranger
Sako - Finnwolf
Ruger - 96/44

It was developed in the United States and never saw much interest outside it.
>very complex compared to service rifles at the time
>less durable
>single shot rifles worked better for illiterate farm boys
>logistics/command concerns with too much ammo expenditure due to internal magazines
>had problems with action strength/cartridge length until the marlin 1881/Winchester 1886
By the time they could handle proper military cartridges, most nations already had single shot bolt action rifles that were in service since the 1870's, some that were updated with magazine tubes. And with 1886 came smokeless powder, which caused everyone to develop smokeless repeating rifles.

Look at a mid 1870's bolt from one of a bolt action from the main European powers and then at the internals of a Winchester 1873, then remember illiterate farmers are going to be using it for several decades with little to no maintenance and it becomes obvious.

>which obsolete rifle type is less obsolete?
>which rifle type that I am never going to use in a combat scenario is better for said imaginary combat scenario?
Boring thread

based 99poster, the combination of the lever and the internal rotary is glorious

I forgot.
Yes they did see very effective use in the russo-turkish war, but the powers weren't going to abandon their bolt action designs to buy lever actions, but look for way to convert their existing rifles to magazine systems.

How dumb and impossible would a levergat with detatchable side magazine be