Why Italians sucked so much at warfare since 20th century

Germans like

hold my beer

>Germany
You mean, Prussia?

Kinda works for both.

>Which would allow Russia to build up its strength and completely and effortlessly eliminate Germany.
Wrong. Also, pointless paranoid fearmongering by Prussiaboo jackasses.

In go around 1, the Czardom had no desires for additional territory in central Europe, all they wanted by then was Constantinople and to crush the Ottoman Empire once and for all.

That's it. That's literally it.

In round 2, Stalin and the USSR bailed Nazi Germany out of economic collapse TWICE before the Fall of France, and assisted in the conquest of Poland, making it quicker and easier. And on the sly military developmental cooperation is the only reason the Wehrmacht had decent tanks at all.

Every logistician in Germany knew they couldn't conquer the USSR the same way the other countries fell. And knew they damned sure couldnt do so fast enough to grab the oil in the Caucuses soon enough to matter. Meanwhile, Stalin was more than happy to avoid a war with basically the entirety of continental Europe, a war that the USSR would have LOST without economic support of Lend Lease preventing a meltdown by 1944.

The Red Army wouldn't have even finished its re-organizations before 1943.

>Which would just allow America to steamroll them
Happened anyways. And was greatly assisted by catching the IJN offguard and massacring them at Midway and the IJN failing to actually inflict severe damage at Pearl Harbor.

>The surprise attack at Pearl Harbor was genuinely their only chance to deal a major blow to US naval power and buy themselves time.
Wrong. They would have been better served dealing that blow in the open sea, preferably close to home, and do so years and years later after Congress had harangued the American public into supporting the war.

Support which would be starkly limited compared to the historical timeline.

Playing the political game wrong, being butthurt at logistics, and attempting sudoku as an entire culture was what happened.

>early imperial Rome (and it lasted until the dissolution of the Roman Empire, so not a long time compared to how much time it stayed separated in city-states and small kingdoms
Wrong. The Goths ruled a united Italian Peninsula. It wasn't until Belisarius that Italy was divided for several centuries again.
Maybe similar to Germany, but Japan had had political unification for centuries at that point. All they did was immediately grab the closest islands they hadn't bothered to grab and absorb the Ainu living there.

>That's it. That's literally it.
Hahaha yeah, the Tsar said so, so it has to be true!
>Meanwhile, Stalin was more than happy to avoid a war with basically the entirety of continental Europe
Yeah, up until his army was properly equipped and trained.
>the only reason the Wehrmacht had decent tanks at all.
Germany didn't have decent tanks at all by that point.
>The Red Army wouldn't have even finished its re-organizations before 1943.
And? Then Germany still wouldn't have figured out its tanks were far outclassed in every aspect by even Russian medium tanks. And now instead of facing the handful of t34s in service, they'd be facing thousands of them. Instead of facing unequipped untrained Red Army conscripts with Mosins and not enough ammo, they'd be facing a modernized army with a semi-automatic rifle as its primary service weapon, rather than all their guns being captured in warehouses before they were issued.
>Happened anyways.
No shit. Sometimes things don't work, even though they were your only logical choice. That's kinda what happens when you make an enemy of an industrial superpower, when you don't even have enough oil to fuel domestic consumption.

>Maybe similar to Germany, but Japan had had political unification for centuries at that poin
retard alert en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_Restoration they may have had a figurehead emperor who had theoretical power over Japan.

>Date of battle: June 10th-25th, 1940
>Italian frostbite victims: 2,151
The fuck? Do Italians have girly sensitivity to cool air temperatures or something?

Attached: Sponge Squint.jpg (1383x916, 126K)

Because the romans were white and shitalians are not white

Germany did it 3 times now.

>And? Then Germany
Could have secured the Mediterranean.
And the USSR would be enjoying decent trade relations with Fascist Europe.

And at this point, it would be looking pointless and hopeless for Britain to continue, and they wouldn't be able to roll the Nazis back across Northern Africa. In fact, the USSR might be threatening to storm down into the Middle East towards Suez....
>only logical choice
Was not their only choice, and it certainly wasn't a logical one.

>enough oil to fuel domestic consumption.
Germany was developing synthetic oil production at a good rate, and it was producing enough to get them by.

And Japan? Actually had plenty of oil, enough to go gallivanting all across the Pacific and even sometimes into the Indian ocean. They got the Indonesian facilities up and running pretty quickly. Their issue was not protecting their merchant marine, not having enough merchant marine, and not having enough internal transport in the islands to move food around.

>Germany didn't have decent tanks at all by that point.
The Panzers were acceptably good for the era, and they would have had even worse without the cooperation with the USSR.

And the USSR invading? Really? Which makes any and every attempt at landing in France suicide.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_Restoration they may have had a figurehead emperor who had theoretical power over Japan.
Because the Shogun didnt count for much huh?

You stupid nigger.
Mountains.

>The Panzers were acceptably good for the era, and they would have had even worse without the cooperation with the USSR.
No, they weren't. They could not penetrate the t34 at any range, even point blank. They were also generally inferior to French tanks. They were good for beating up Poland's tractors and horses, and that's about it.
>And Japan? Actually had plenty of oil
No, it doesn't.
>. They got the Indonesian facilities up and running pretty quickly.
Which was why America was pissed and going to declare war sooner or later. Japan realized this, America realized this, you seem to be the only one involved who does not accept it.
>And the USSR invading? Really? Which makes any and every attempt at landing in France suicide.
What is this even supposed to mean?
>Because the Shogun didnt count for much huh?
No, he didn't. Counts for about as much as the Holy Roman Emperor did to the multitudes of fiefdoms he ruled over, but even less so.

>Mountains
Ah. That would explain things. I guess Italians do not know what winter clothing is. Thanks for the clarification.

Italian soldier in WWI: no gloves/mittens, no knit cap or appropriate hat

Attached: italian soldier WWI.jpg (1584x1080, 243K)

So Italians are just retarded then? Not surprised.

>They could not penetrate the t34 at any range, even point blank. They were also generally inferior to French tanks. They were good for beating up Poland's tractors and horses, and that's about it.
And yet, the Germans used them just fine.

And guess what? They would have been even worse.

>No, it doesn't.
>>. They got the Indonesian facilities up and running pretty quickly.
>Which was why
Contradicting yourself.
>does not accept it.
That Pearl Harbor was anything other than the dumbest idea imaginable? America had sat out for YEARS regarding their own racial group and still wasn't getting involved regarding Europe. Pearl had little chance of doing anything other than piss America off.

Meanwhile, delay the war, refuse to engage, even when the USN has forward deployed to the Phillipines, fortify and supply the relevant islands, and have a laugh when FDR can't get a near unanimous declaration of war from Congress. You could delay the onset of war with America for years. And while yes, the USN gets larger, that was going to happen anyways.

In this case, you preserve and strengthen the IJN's position. And if you can delay to 1945, Phillipino Independence rolls up and throws another wrench in there.

>What is this even supposed to mean
Without the Heer so heavily deployed in the east, the landing at Normandy and the French Riviera are suicide, and get crushed immediately by all the armies. Even more so if a larger proportion of its strength is deployed in North Africa to make that more difficult.

All told, the Nazi's not invading the USSR and Japan playing the "I'm not touching you" game, and neither making a premptive attack or declaration of war, throws off the entire schedule by several years. Invade and secure Iberia and Gibraltar, supply larger forces in North Africa and move them up to the Libyan war front and keep others deployed in Morrocco, and it becomes untenable for the British.

Dirt poor was the real issue. They weren't purchasing that gear becuase dicking around in Africa didn't require it.

Italy is barely a real country today, we should've never get involved with Adolf but Mussolini was a glory-hungry retard

>Contradicting yourself.
Last I checked, Indonesia is not Japan, and Japan trying to make it Japan is why America told them to go fuck themselves.
>And yet, the Germans used them just fine.
Not really, they used artillery just fine.
>And guess what? They would have been even worse.
Yes indeed, if the Germans waited until 1943 their technological disadvantage would have been even worse.
>Pearl had little chance of doing anything other than piss America off.
America was already pissed off and ready to go. Disabling their navy was literally Japan's one and only long term chance at survival.
>Without the Heer so heavily deployed in the east, the landing at Normandy and the French Riviera are suicide, and get crushed immediately by all the armies. Even more so if a larger proportion of its strength is deployed in North Africa to make that more difficult.
And why wouldn't they be deployed in the east to counteract the invading Red Army? Or is this just some retarded HOI4 fantasy?

>Japan is why America told them to go fuck themselves.
And? That wasn't a declaration war. That was witholding steel and oil.

>Disabling their navy was literally Japan's one and only long term chance at survival.
It was impossible to do is what it was, and would have done nothing to prevent America from just building more. And Japan knew it.
>America was already pissed off and ready to go
FDR and the upper class were deebly goncerned. The American voting public, and Congress were mildly annoyed if they cared at all. Good luck getting an official declaration of war, and one with deep and broad support.

>And why wouldn't they be deployed in the east
Because only some would. The rest would be in Germany, France and North Africa, where the fighting would be.

>FDR and the upper class were deebly goncerned. The American voting public, and Congress were mildly annoyed if they cared at all. Good luck getting an official declaration of war, and one with deep and broad support.
They'd do it the same way they got support for nearly every war in US history: blow something up. Lusitania, Gulf of Tonkin, 9/11, USS Maine, Japan just happened to do it for them this time.
>Because only some would. The rest would be in Germany, France and North Africa, where the fighting would be.
Ah, so then they get surrounded by the superiorly equipped Red Army and destroyed, good strategy, maybe it'll work in the next world war. Even Hitler wasn't that stupid though.

>They'd do it the same way they got support for nearly every war in US history: blow something up. Lusitania, Gulf of Tonkin, 9/11, USS Maine, Japan just happened to do it for them this time.
Lusitania?

The ship that sank in May 1915? And America declare war.....2 years later in April 1917?

>Gulf of Tonkin and USS Maine and 9/11
Different era and environment. And against enemies that were completely helpless against us. Imperial Japan meanwhile, traded 1v1 or better in several land engagments and made ever inch of island taken a bloody slog. And the Naval engagments weren't a joke early in the war either. The IJN was more than capable of inflicting a disastrous defeat here or there, assuming things went right for them and wrong for us.

Even after Guadalcanal concluded and the naval battles turned into slaughters, the USN still had to put some elbow grease into it.

Spain was backwards, feeble and helpless, South Vietnam didn't stop us from coming in, and Iraq and Afghanistan were brutally overmatched.

>Ah, so then they get surrounded by the superiorly equipped Red Army and destroyed, good strategy, maybe it'll work in the next world war
You got any proof Stalin would order it? Instead of continuing to work with his "ally" and let him and the British bloody each other for the next several years? And thats presuming the cooperation isn't extended and doesn't go any deeper.

Have you even seen Instructor Zero? He could take on a dozen SEALs, and come out on top.

>Instructor Zero?
no

>dozen SEALs
In what, an Ethics Quiz?

because they are italian