I see that lots of times Russian special forces get shit talked for their incompetence in hostage situations and how they seem unable to distinguish between terrorists and hostages. Yet I wonder if a Beslan situation happened in the USA how would the government deal with it.
Also: they wouldn't be allowed to use Seals or Delta Force right? Just Swat teams and national guard, some user here told me that using military forces on U.S soil is strictly forbidden .
P.s. no, I'm not Russian.
>wondering how the US government handles a situation
typically shoot the dog first
>some user here told me that using military forces on U.S soil is strictly forbidden .
delta was at waco
HRT takes too long to plan a tactical entry the criminals get bored and go home.
Yeah well the government writes the laws why the fuck should they follow them. Corrupt to the fucking core.
I know, wasn't that forbidden?
SWAT teams are typically better at hostage rescue and forcing barricaded buildings then operators. Because they acutely do those jobs.
It comes down to when such a situation would have happened. Pre-columbine, the police would set up a perimeter and we'd be in for a VERY long and drawn out siege most likely culminating in a bloodbath because once the gym is rigged with explosives there is no other outcome. Post columbine police are retrained to actively engage shooters (which the terrorists were before they had hostages). Thus the terrorists get overwhelmed long before they can rig the gym with explosives and thus the civie death toll will be rather low.
Is there a Military Factory but for special forces? Like is there a website that's just an encyclopedia for special forces and CTUs around the world?
Yes. The government doesn't care about laws when they break them.
Don't compare "spetsnaz" to SEALs or Delta. Spetsnaz just means "special forces", it doesn't not denote a specific unit like Vympel or Alfa.
Delta was in an advisory role, as were brit SAS (like 2 people in the compound were brit citizens). At no point was Delta known to fire rounds or attempt to breach. All known action was between the ATF/FBI and Branch Davidians
Well despite the fact this was obviously made from a Canada, we do have terrorism in Japan.
Completely different doctrine greatly favors moving on hostage holders as soon as the equipment to do so is present. With a situation like
mentions, once the Red Team (terrorist, criminal, or otherwise) has set up their equipment there's realistically not much that could be done without extreme hostage risk. Its why you get shit like when hostages got taken in an Egyptian airplane and ultimately a bunch of people died; its 1 handful incompetence but also the nightmarish lack of any cover leading to "fish in a barrel" time for civilians combined with the difficulty of taking a choke point with literally no meaningful cover. Throw in explosives? There's no way to do it without immense risk.
The best way to handle a situation like that is to prevent it from happening. After the bad guys have explosives and stuff? Negotiation, and be ready to roll. Even at Waco, they were able to get a number of kids out. Regardless of your interpretation and view of the events, negotiation was the only thing that actually worked, and even that only gets you so much time
Natty guard has sf units.
>Also: they wouldn't be allowed to use Seals or Delta Force right? Just Swat teams and national guard, some user here told me that using military forces on U.S soil is strictly forbidden .
Why not? Russians flew in their best counter terrorist Alpha unit to Beslan to deal with the problem.
>Thus the terrorists get overwhelmed long before they can rig the gym with explosives and thus the civie death toll will be rather low.
The Beslan terrorists were a platoon-sized group that had PKMs and RPGs. I dont disagree that that's what the police would try to do, but they'd be outgunned and repelled in an equivalent scenario.
>some user here told me that using military forces on U.S soil is strictly forbidden
Posse Commitatus forbids military forces be used for domestic law enforcement duties for periods of longer than 90 days without Congressional approval.
However that said I don't necessarily view counter terrorism to be "law enforcement". They're organizations ideologically and politically opposed to the US who undertake acts of violence. What's the difference between a group of Islamists seizing a school and some foreign special forces unit doing the same thing?
Same reason why I see red when people (lefties) scream about military use on the southern border. Cartels attack and murder Americans on American soil, in all purposes an invasion. But if you suggest using the US Army to counter that, you're a paranoid racist white nationalist. But using those same forces to harass some sand niggers in literal buttfuck nowhere Afghanistan is a-ok.
>Rhodesian Selous Scouts
Killed 500 terrorists while disguised as them
>US SWAT
Hostage killed in game of Simon Says, baby flashbanged
>ATF
Hostage's dog killed, hostage arrested for shouldering a brace, terrorist covertly supplied with weapons
>East German Diensteinheit IX
Hostage shot for trying to flee to the west, terrorist sent to labor camp
>Soviet NKVD/KGB
Entire town sent to labor camp
>Chinese Armed Police
Hostages run over by tanks for engaging in pro-democracy protests, terrorists sent to labor camp
>Nazi Einsatzgruppen
Town turned into ghetto and then into death camp, hostages and terrorists "deloused" with Zyklon B, skinheads deny this ever happened 80 years later
What is Arystan and Task Force 88
A full time big city SWAT team likely trains and "deploys" more than a military hostage rescue type team. I'd trust them with more real world training than the military or a federal team who doesn't really deal with that type of thing, just trains hypotheticals. For example LAPD SWAT probably deploys multiple times a week, clears real houses with real junk all over the place, faces real unknowns, have killed real people. Meanwhile FBI HRT trains in a shoot house sometimes, never really deploys unless they actually come across a situation they're supposed to handle. Same with a military team, they'd do better outside for sure but how often to specific room clearing teams actually clear rooms? Irl they probably mostly just throw grenades in.
If I were tasked with this shit I'd literally send in an inner city SWAT team or state task force, people with actual boots on the ground (domestic) experience, with federal/military guys as backup since local teams aren't really that big.
Also, look at HRT or SAD's uniforms and gear pictures where they've actually deployed. Shits all brand new, no wear, no scuffs, nothing. Prove me wrong.
>some user here told me that using military forces on U.S soil is strictly forbidden .
Yes but no
Depends on who's calling the shots tbqh
Any examples of the Japanese anti terror units actually operating? I know the commies held some hostages for a few days in a cabin a long time ago or something
That's because most of the time that's for photo ops
Holy fuck you are retarded
Hard to do worse than a 100% fatality rate innit? Poofters the lot of em.
Seems like an even mix between used and new in the images I'm seeing. Idk what you expect though, you're not going get too much wear in an urban environment, any contemporary swat is going to look pretty clean as well. You're not going to end up with the tint of afghan dust over your gear and tears in the groin if you're deployed to NY.
>Also: they wouldn't be allowed to use Seals or Delta Force right? Just Swat teams and national guard, some user here told me that using military forces on U.S soil is strictly forbidden .
While illegal they've done it before in really fucky situations(waco for instance) without issue. They just say that they were ""advising"" and the whole thing gets memory holed after the feds make up some story about the baddies being pedos. More importantly, high level US tactical teams are typically made up of literally ex SEALs, Delta, MARSOC, and the top 1% of LEOs that have seen some shit and have the proper pedigree, that then actively cross train with the best and brightest of active duty military SMUs and high level police units in the US and abroad. Also while they don't typically use actual military gear like APCs or tanks they absolutely can(and have, Ex waco again or other similar instances) and include members who were well trained on how to use such equipment. I would strongly suggest against taking anybody above the super SWAT level as being "just some cops in body armor", as they're probably more realistically special forces with a "police" sticker on their vest.
Sure. Not like the same military folks who called shenanigans on original fed claims of their not being any delta on scene in the first place also said that they were on scene pulling triggers or anything. They were just "advising from the front" , im sure. Anybody who doubts the ATF/FBIs lie riddled narrative is clearly a crackpot.
i wonder whose dumbshit kike made this. ksk isn't swiss sof
Maybe its a collection of blantant hyperbole and b8, and they knew it would bother you?
The FBI HRT is better than Delta or SEALs, why would you employ the use of a shittier (illegal) team that DOESNT do hostage rescue as its bread and butter? HRT's training and op tempo is insane if you look it up and is nothing but ex spec ops.
You see Ivanovich, if glorious citizen of Soviet Russia becomes hostage, they obviously let themselve become hostage for free. So they no longer citizen of Russia but traitor scum.
>using military forces is strictly forbidden
Kek if only you knew
>irrelevant Scandinavian SF
yikes
DAMN U BORIS YOU OF DRUNK AGAIN? IN RUSSIA BEING HOSTAGE DOES NOT RELIEVE YOU OF DUTY TO MOTHERLAND! IF DYING MEANS YOU SERVE THE MOTHERLAND YOU SERVE THE MOTHERLAND. IS EASY, DA?
Almost the same result. The thing is, Beslan is in the middle of nowhere, that's what gave enough time for hostage takers to rig everything, if they tried something like this in Los Angeles or New York both favorable terror targets, it's possible they could be stopped before they rig the entire place.
They would have to try this in Wyoming or Alaska to have the same effective damage.
>FBI HRT
>better than Delta
How about no, those motherfuckers cross-train plenty of times so they're on the same level of training
At hostage rescue?
You need spooky guys for HVT killing and reconing targets for the USAF before an invasion, delta all the way. You never hear much about them doing negotiation and hostage extraction, whereas thats THE bread and butter of the HRT. Dont ask pararescue boys to do green beret work when you have GBs, dont ask SEALs to do pararescue work when you have paras, dont ask Delta to do underwater eod when you have teams for that, dont have the HRT do INS raids when you have ICE, and dont have Deltas do domestic hostage extraction when you literally have a tier 1 team whos sole job on Earth is to practice hostage rescue work every day but federal holidays
Anyone have part 2?