Is the AR-15 platform objectively the pinnacle of gun design or is it so popular due to US market dominance?
If, let's say, instead of the M16 the US designed and adopted the FAMAS, or the G36, would they become as popular, or would the AR win in the end?
It is inherently more modular, better ergos, etc; and market dominance created a feedback loop of improvement in combination with this.
I know, but the question is: if hypothetically the FAMAS had the aftermarket support of the AR-15 and the M16 was instead a guarded French military secret with only a handful units exported like the FAMAS, would we be having AK vs. FAMAS threads on Jow Forums now?
It's pretty much the Pinnacle when all things are taken into account. Military adoption and advancement early on helped make a weapon that was appreciated and further developed by the civilian market. Certain political factors have helped drive the market, further advancing the design. It's not perfect, but it is about the best you can get in the US right now. Anything else is a oddball foreign design with not nearly the military/civilian following. Until we see a change in ammunition or body armor that makes it obsolete, the AR15 will be a mainstay. Technology has pretty much stagnated since the 50s with the exception of advanced polymers, and the AR15 is the result of that stagnation.
No. In that scenario the FAMAS would be more popular than it is now, but it wouldn't be as popular as the AR has become.
The famas is shit. Maybe g36, but probably not.
I also dont really like ars
Okay, the FAMAS is an oddball, but how about the G36 then? Or hell, AR-18 for that matter to be less anachronistic.
The ergos are fine, it's plenty modular. If it was adopted by the military, it could totally take AR-15's place, leaving it as a curious footnote of history.
AR-18 is objectively actually the best design of a firearm and if given the time to grow and advance like the AR-15 design was, it would absolutely be the standard.
No because AR-15 is not a rifle, its a platform that is so adaptable it can fit any mission.
So while rifles come and go the AR-15 stays as a work bench for anything any rifle can dream up.
Its a framework that is as modular as a Jeep.
Stoner 63.
The Ar is a tool. Like all tools, they are used for specific tasks. It is impossible to say one gun is better than another without stating the task that needs done.
That being said, Ars with short stroke gas systems seem to be the fad right now and will probably be standard going into the future.
The ar is pretty shit frankly.
You're retarded quite frankly.
>Is the AR-15 platform objectively the pinnacle of gun design
Hell no
FAMAS is interesting because of the tighter cartridge standardization. If the FAMAS had been standard there would be a narrower range in cartridge charactistics, to fit within the Kiraly mechanism tolerances. And if that had happened maybe what came after would have all been lever delayed blowback, because they could.
Why do you hate AR's? Did one kill your grandmother?
It's a weak design that requires a lot of maintenance for functionality compared to other designs. It is limited in cartridge size and the .22 is a pretty piss poor caliber choice. The 10 is better I suppose but again other choices are better.
Don't be silly, guns don't kill people
Be the change you want to see, user.
Nice
It had a lot of good ideas but also a lot of strange features (charging handle and forward assist say hello), and it is definitely popular because of US adoption. The FAMAS is not a great example because bullpups kinda suck for civilians, but any other non-bullpup modern assault rifle is at the very least as good as a standard issue M16 or M4. Gucci and operator shit is irrelevant, that can be applied to any rifle.
Ironically the 1994 AWB is the main reason the AR15 is so popular. Sales exploded in 2004 and it became a symbol of American gun culture.
>bullpups kinda suck for civilians
Why? Bullpups are fantastic for home defence, more manoeuvrable through hallways, easier to use with one hand so you can keep it ready while calling 911, less noise when used without a suppressor compared to an AR pistol, etc.
Basically, yes. How is this even a question?
Being the service rifle means it is the default option for any civilian culturally. It is also the default option because economies of scale make it the cheapest possible option. If you're a country you pick a side/get a side picked for you and buy whatever that country produces. It's that simple. If the US adopted the G36 or whatever, then nobody would give even a second glance at the AR-15/18.
Usually rifles are bought for sporting and hunting, so basically toys, and bullpups aren't as comfy. It's not a matter of practicality as much as it is of familiarity.
It's a fad, but not a great one, since they have worse problems than "get a little dirty inside the bolt" like proper AR-15s do. They're heavier, the balance is shifted towards the barrel, the recoil line is all wrong, and unless there's heavy redesign of the internals like like HK did to put the carrier on steel rails you're going to get carrier tilt that chews up the receivers.
>but also a lot of strange features (charging handle and forward assist say hello)
You know, you can get AR uppers without forward assists, or with side charging handles (reciprocating or non-).
>It is also the default option because economies of scale make it the cheapest possible option.
Mini-14s were cheaper than ARs until about a decade ago. American civilians did not benefit from any economy of scale associated with manufacturing of M16s and M4s for the military. The current cheapness of ARs is due to civilian demand creating civilian-oriented supply.
You're definition of "heavy redesign" is ridiculous, HK rifles are practically regular ars with short stroke pistons.
For a military that needs to issue millions of rifles to soldiers that often neglect maintenance or dont have adequate maintenance materials, and need to keep those rifles running for decades, short stroke rifles offer more advantages over traditional gas systems. That being said I prefer traditional gas systems over short stroke, and a user that is adequately motivated enough and has adequate materials and time for maintenance, traditional gas systems can be better.
Different tools for different jobs.
Uh uh! I kill people. With guns.
>Is the AR-15 platform objectively the pinnacle of gun design or is it so popular due to US market dominance?
I picked up an AR a few years ago during one of the news hype sessions. Up until this point, all of my firearms are hunting purposed bolt/pump actions. I am very impressed with the AR platform for a number of reasons. It may not be the best at anything, but it is exceptional at all things. The simplicity of working on it is what I think sets it apart.
>The simplicity of working on it is what I think sets it apart.
The common expression is that ARs are "adult Lego."
It's due to US and NATO market dominance.
The pinnacle of assault rifle design as such would be something like the Horn Stg. It honestly amazes me that no gun manufacturer has "revived" that design.
>Uh uh! I kill people. With guns.
That's dangerous....Like a fire in a nursing home.
>"adult Lego."
That is a very good description. I would get into that side of it more if my state allowed semi-autos for groundhogs and other small game as well. Instead I am shopping for a bolt action bull barrel, whereas with an AR, I could put together another upper, and potentially enjoy the lower/trigger on a different rifle entirely.
The different types of cartridges that can be put into an AR platform is many.
I'd say so. Inline recoil, semi-direct impingement, intermediate cartridge, low bore axis. Altogether it makes a lightweight, really easy to shoot firearm. Things could perhaps be tweaked to make it slightly better, but the established market will make that not viable.
>I'd say so.
Sullivan disagrees.
You may be interested in a product called the Kali Key. It's a modified gas key and charging handle that converts an AR15 to a straight pull bolt action.
If you get a dedicated BCG for it, you can swap out BCGs to convert between semi and manual action in a couple of seconds.
OLD PEOPLE BURNING, OLD PEOPLE BURING
>I HAVE MORE MONEY THEN YOU
fippy mcbippy good sir
The G36 basically is an AR18
>AR10 is better than AR15
big retard. your thinking was proven wrong about 60 years ago.
The receivers and carriers are modified with rails to prevent carrier tilt. 99% of piston ARs are not.
the AR-15 isn't even widely used, the US media just gives that impression
numerically most of the world uses AKs, Europe uses a mix of native rifles, china uses a mix of native and AK clones as does India
what stock/adapter senpai? working on getting a BRN 180 built up
Doesn't understand context. Wants to talk with the humans anyway. That's cute. Its cute.
All limited by case size. Most are junk.
Literally everything you said is wrong tho. In any context. I hope you're sterile, or otherwise unfuckable.
The G36 has a better out of the box safety (45º compared to the AR's 90º) and magazines (polymer, see-through and can be clipped together).
How much FALs and G3s are there? Even in the most remote African outback you see niggers wielding them.
You realize polymer see-through mags are readily available for the AR15, as are mag clips and this thing called "tape"?
I have literally never had an issue with operating the AR-15's safety blind, because it's perfectly placed and very easy to confirm position.
there's a fair few- don't get me wrong, but they get photographed a lot more than they should
in africa their performance against unarmored vehicles and wild animals is an asset.
oftentimes they are just surplus dumped on the poos
The clips are also bulky as hell and make it so the mags don’t fit in a standard pouch
Beats me, I took it from google. I want one set up in a similar manner though, just with a magpul grip and a VFG.
Plus mag couplers are cheap and easier to use.
>You may be interested in a product called the Kali Key.
That is interesting
What is this and where can I buy this upper?
>piston instead of stoner impingement
>failed every trail by every army
no
Brownells BRN-180. They have a shorter one too.
>AR's can't have 45° safeties
>AR's don't have clear polymer mags
>AR's don't have mag clips for the raging homosexuals that think they're a good idea
.
It's also super fucking easy to make much like the AK, you just need aluminum to mill instead of steel to stamp.
Kinda overlooked sometimes but ARs are insanely thin compared to the G36, FAMAS or L85. I havent handled those other rifles but it seems like they would be uncomforatble to carry over body armor do to their chonkiness.
>2 seconds in google give 4 immediate results for 45 degree ambi selectors
no the ar10 is
>AR-15 is not a rifle
Retard alert
>requires a lot of maintenance for functionality
Nope, can go many thousands of rounds with zero cleaning. Try again, retard.
Lever safeties are easy to trip while walking with the rifle slung. I'd rather have 90* for safety.
Found it, its a sig Skeleton stock with a pic folder adapter
It's capitalism in a nutshell, it kinda sucks but it's objectively a better choice for the average person to known alternatives
No it doesn't, no it isn't, and no it isn't.
>Blast gas into eye because DI is basically ork construction
>Scream "it was only $300! I don't need sights!"
ありがとうございました.
Np user
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH
I thought it looked familiar but it's been so long since I've seen an MCX.
I found an adapter from a place called kns precision as well btw user, if you want to bookmark the parts
Still unsure if an BRN-180 will be my next build or not but it seems likely. I want to make some changes to my 14.5" middy. Thinner rail, cut the J-Comp off and put a QD flash hider of sorts on mostly. It'll either be the BRN or a 20". My first was an A4gery and I loved it to death. Trading it for a PTR was a mistake. Though I love the PTR too.
I'm waiting on the 10.5 180 for the adjustable block. Then strap it into an ambi LMT lower
That can literally only happen if you're a lefty and for some reason leaning really far forward of the sights.
Idk if this is stupid to ask, but can piston rods be made of carbon fibre? I ask this because the piston rod in the hk416 stays relatively cool, enough that you can touch it after firing.
The military uses them, there's a surplus, and they're cheap because milled aluminum. They're not the pinnacle of gun design, they have plenty of problems and flaws.