SHE
FUCKING
WON
SHE
Easton Clark
Jacob Garcia
What?
Lincoln Gray
Not OP, but the YF-23 was the technologically superior plane, it beat the F-22 in everything but cost per unit. Unfortunately all of the trials information is still classified so we'll never know how much of a better plane it was, but Northrup got fucked regardless.
Parker Kelly
So are Japs going to buy it or you in denial over competition?
Asher Morris
Lets not forget the ass juice that the original F-22 was. It took them 20 years to fix it...
Bentley Long
BW was ready to go right away, had internal bays and everything. YF-22 was only half ready and was missing half the systems it was going to have, its why it even came close to the YF-23, it had half the weight missing!
Eli Turner
>it beat the F-22 in everything but cost per unit.
NOPE, do your research, retard.
Connor Russell
Convincing argument, faggot.
Matthew Thomas
IIRC, it was faster and had more range, but the 22 was more maneuverable and was far closer to being ready to fly. On the outside, the YF-23 definitely bears a strong resemblance to most of the public "6th gen" concepts that are coming out, so it seems like it was a bit ahead of its time in that regard.
Bentley Powell
I did and you're wrong. It has better speed, range and maneuverability, it could do 60 degree AOA without thrust vectoring for example. It also had better payload and identical avionics.
There was no reason not to choose it, or at least choose the variable cycle engine which made it great.
YF22 wasn't more maneuverable or more ready to fly, they just chose to do a 60 degree AOA showcase and fire a missile in front of the air combat command during demonstration validation. YF23 chose not to do these things despite being able to, and thus the generals inferred it COULDNT do these things, which is bullshit.
Northrop marketing team dropped the ball again.
They did the same thing when the Cobra was to be sold to Europe as their next aircraft. They sent one dude to negotiate, he came to the meeting wearing a windbreaker, a ballcap and smoking a cigar, dropped the (admittedly superior) performance data on the table, and then spent the rest of his trip in the hotel room. The Lockheed team sent two dozen marketing people, lawyers and engineers all dressed in what even a french snob would consider immaculate business clothing. They promised the Europeans manufacturing jobs, lower prices, and made the failures of F-16 compared to Cobra seem not so bad. They showed videotape after videotape of marketing flying by F-16 throughout the conference. Guess what was Europes fighter jet for the next forty years?
Has fuckall to do with performance though, YF-23 was better than YF-22 and YF-17 was better than YF-16, even when price is taken into account.
Hunter Jenkins
Nice citations, downy. As I mentioned before, the actual performance details are still classified, but everyone involved in the program stated that the YF-23 was the better plane. You can shitpost all you want, but the people involved, in the programs are all very open about what happened.
Jaxson Russell
Daily subversion thread? Hourly, is it?
Joshua Hill
it also had visible fan blades and couldnt be fixed without a redesign.
Ryder Thomas
How the fuck is talking about jet fighters subversion
Michael Thomas
I wish we'd gotten the FB-23 to go with the F-22
>stealthy replacement for the FB-111, B-1B. B-2
Carson Martinez
that would have been nice, but i highly doubt it would have replaced any of those planes. it would have to be more like a stealthy strike eagle
Ryder Evans
What about the FB-22
Brayden Howard
YF-22 was picked to derisk the entire aircraft developement.
YF-23 included way more advanced technologies which would have only ended in a bigger clusterfuck than the YF-22 developement was.
Connor Hill
Nah, FB-23 would've been faster and carried more with better stealth
Samuel Hall
Why couldn't we just had both?!!
Zachary Davis
Because the Russians didn’t have the common fucking courtesy to prevent their country from collapsing while we were developing a bunch of cool new weapons to fight them. Imagine how much cool shit the US would’ve deployed had the Cold War lasted another decade or two. Luckily, China seems to be picking up where the USSR left off, so we’re starting to see funding come back.
Sebastian Sullivan
>everything is still classified
>but i know how the trails went
Hmmm
Jace Cooper
We would habe gotten many crazy things in the 00s but then the Bush adminstration decided the Iraq war is more important and killed everything in the developement.
Leading to the technolgy gap which helped Russia not to fall behind hopelessly and China to catch up.
Hudson Martinez
>those computers
It's funny that a workstation with an Intel Xeon and two Geforce Titan would not just completely destroy everything used for simulations but would also render most of the simulations unnecessary.
Nicholas Rogers
>China picking up the slack
If only, they just don't have the swagger that the russkies did. They will never be as cool as the soviets were, the soviets were an enemy you could respect, truly a worthy rival.
Angel Wilson
t. vatnik
Andrew Mitchell
Unfortunately for Northrop, they and McDonnell-Douglass had been mismanaging the B-2 and A-12 respectively, while Lockheed's most recent projects had been on time and on budget.
Adam Ortiz
>A-12
>McDonnell
Kevin Thompson
Bentley Rodriguez
ITS NOT FAIR GUYS
Adrian Thompson
Have food.
Aaron Rivera
Oh, I thought you were referring to this one
en.wikipedia.org
Xavier Edwards
Too good for this world.
Luke Wilson
William Taylor
Based alternate-universe-user
Benjamin Allen
Even the F-35 was developed with trash computers.
Though in my experience CFD tools aren't taking much advantage from GPUs.
Mason Wilson
Buy FCAS
Ayden Watson
I just wish Congress had slapped the USMC in the mouth for claiming the VTOL function was still useful in the modern era, and gently told the UK that there would be no VTOL option. And then built the F35C naval version as the standard version. And keep the F-22 at 500 orders.
We would have gotten the F35's 5-7 years sooner, 200 billion dollars cheaper. Our buddy the UK would have built CATOBAR and would have a far more powerful and capable airwing.
>Muh training
Cross train on USN ships, like they did anyways.
>Muh tiny pisshole nations
Laugh at their request for shitty jump carriers to mean anything.
>Muh VTOL market
Have a giggle at France, China, Russia, India all pissing away money trying to supply it.
>Muh Marines
Share Supercarrier space or take off from secure landbases anyways.
Jonathan Brooks
what are you talking about, retard?
Brandon Young
What does VTOL have to do with the F-22 vs F-23 competition?
Jason Myers
The Brits were actually planning to buy the C in the early days of QE.
And the F-22 orders were canned to make room for what would become the program that led to the B-21 .
Connor Rivera
yf23.net had a good writeup, basically at 12 oclock low you could see the fan blades.
Adam Johnson
What technology gap? We still rule the skies and the sea.
Brody Cook
>F-22
>canceled
>only small updates planned
>F-35
>developement hell
>10 years too late
The weight is still carried by 4th gen fighters.
Joshua Hill
>And the F-22 orders were canned to make room for what would become the program that led to the B-21 .
this is not even close to true
Jace Williams
ugly-ass pancake bitch
Brayden Clark
>10 years too late
But actual strategic and operational thinking about China instead of distracting ourselves taking potshots at Tusken raiders would have been better. Fuck, Dubya's original focus of foreign policy was going to be ending Latin American drug wars. What a better timeline that would have been, and maybe our liberties wouldn't have been shit on and counter-espionage left as a redhead stepchild in favor of counter-terrorism in that alt-2000s.
Hunter King
The peace dividend killing development programs and gutting the US military before it could process and institutionalize the lessons of the Cold War was a big fuckup too.
Nathan Russell
pancake hating shitcunt
Easton Ward
meanwhile the yf23 is still being flown and modified to this day by northrup.
John Torres
meanwhile the yf23 is still being flown and modified to this day by northrup.
Charles Sanchez
Got a cite for that?
Elijah Moore
Ian Gomez
It doesn't say that
Wyatt Sanders
> After the culling, the brass thought that the new bomber was simply too important and that the chances of winning both the F-22 and bomber arguments with Gates, who was staunchly averse to building high-priced weapons that couldn't be used in Iraq or Afghanistan, was next to zero.
>The need for the new bomber would now become a top procurement priority and having sacrificed something at the fiscal altar gave Schwartz and the USAF brass of the era some momentum for making a case for that bomber.
Isaac Johnson
It wasn't canceled to
>to make room
The White House didn't want either the F-22 nor the bomber.
Jonathan Lee
The YF-23 is fantastic engineering-wise and one of the most beautiful planes ever made. But holy fuck, YF-23fags are utter trash. What an autistic fandom.
Gabriel Moore
I'm started to think Lockmart's business model is the art of bullshitism.
Ryan Powell
>I'm started to think Lockmart's business model is the art of bullshitism
I'm not denying that, LM has historically been a giant asshole, but using a meme collage and a quote from some German guy as a claim that a country known for its bad metallurgy and QA can make a plane better than an American company severly discredit your post.
Josiah Edwards
see
Eli Barnes
F22 is best because we have it now lol. If YF23 had won the competition they would have been shitting on tge F22 and lying about it.
Their criteria for judgement
>how do i act to defend my groups reputation
Our criteria of judgement
>what is the performance and efficiency
>I'm started to think Lockmart's business model is the art of bullshitism.
So it seems! So it seems....
Thomas Thompson
The opposite is true. The YF-22 was capable of showcasing way more things.
Boeing's concept of a missile launch was *shrug*. And the entire plane would have needed to be redesigned to include bays for short range missiles.
David Edwards
see
Jaxson Hall
>YF23 chose not to do these things despite being able to, and thus the generals inferred it COULDNT do these things, which is bullshit.
lol
Luke Bell
>popular vote.jpg
Anthony Gonzalez
no kidding. so is boeing's. so is raytheon's.
Connor Powell
Point camera up there so the inlet center is lined up with the fan hub.
It has the same issue as the Su-57, at one angle you can see the fan, which means at that angle it is not stealthy.