Remind me again how a baton could help you against a skilled fighter, Jow Forums

>t. cop

That is a pretty good one-two.

>if i draw and they suddenly stop

then you've successfully diffused a situation without killing anyone, good job user!

Defuse

But then why even carry a gun?

A gun is for the instance where they do keep coming.

Because then the situation wouldn't have been defused. Come on user this isn't hard.

Because there's a good chance you would've gotten your shit rocked in if you didn't. There's also a good chance the situation wouldn't be diffused without it.

Everybody's Gangster until they get a gun pulled on them.

They stopped after they saw you were armed, dumb cunt. Think your fist or a fighting stance would have also made them back up?

Leave Jow Forums noguns. Never return. You will never dissuade me from carrying or growing the firearm community.

>had the upper advantage
>just stood there and waited for Oceanside to one-two his face
If you're not in the right mindset, you will get your ass kicked no matter what you're using.

>not diffusing your enemies through a permiable memebrane

the moment he put his hand on him is the moment he should have struck

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to be fair, a lot of Jow Forums dream of being able to kill someone legally, this place is sociopath city.

If they stop, then the gun deterred them and that good. You ended the fight. If they start coming back aggressively to attack then you use it. Its all situational control

Nice projection

if you think its projection you clearly don't browse this board.

If you think you're not projecting, you need to take your meds.

shit i forgot my allergy meds you're right im tripping

Baton guy is a fool. At that close distance, the baton shouldn't be that far away when the muscular guy needs less momentum to strike you.

If it was me, I'd deflect the strike from the muscular guy's left-hand strike with my right elbow, duck under his right-hand strike, use the momentum from my duck to follow through with my baton to his right knee, wait for him to react the pain from the blow to his knee, and then dodge the blind strike he might throw, and then strike his chin with the baton.

this isn't an anime you fucking retard and i sincerely doubt your reaction time is as quick as you like to think it is

And then use your katana to slice his head off with such precision that he takes three more swings at you before it rolls off?

His point is that baton fag should have swung before the camera was even fucking rolling.

I guarantee you my reaction speed is better than the baton guy's.

I wouldn't even need to draw my katana in this scenario.

Can't tell if this is a legitimate post from /a/ or a funny new copypasta

>duck under his right-hand strike

yeah i don't know why baton guy didn't just activate precognition

MMA fighter and self defense instructor here. Having a weapon, whether it be a blunt or bladed weapon, doesn't automatically give you an advantage over an unarmed human being. A weapon is a force multiplier, but like multiplication, if you're multiplying 1×1 it's still one. You gotta have some actual fighting ability behind your weapon.

That one two from the younger guy seemed like a very controlled combo, notice how he didn't put full force/speed behind his punches. He chose precision to the jaw over full powered punches. The punches were also short and tight which is a sign of an experienced trained fighter. This guy knew how to punch at the very least, wouldn't be surprised if he did MMA or boxing or some form of striking art.

Even if baton guy started striking from a distance, I'd wager the younger guy would have eventually shot in for a double or a clinch, tied up with baton guy, and took the baton from him. This was a lose lose for baton guy. And this is something that extends to firearm use. So many guys out there with their CCW but they can't roll with a punch, or grapple to save their lives. Most baddies will attack you from close range before you even know they're a threat or before you have any legal right to pull out a firearm, which means a lot of potentially disarmed Jow Forumsommandos.

Learn to fight, striking and grappling. Even just a few crash courses may save your life.

>looks away from direct threat with a weapon

He's lucky the dude was white and didn't actually want to hit him.

The threat is no longer active and you shouldn't shoot. You still could and just say they came at you, but you never know these days if someone else is witnessing it or if there's a camera somewhere. Better to not land yourself in hot water.

Graham v Connor is a good case to research for use of force stuff. It also depends on state law. Sometimes you're clear to shoot someone even in the back for certain crimes, sometimes you get charged for murder for it. As a general rule if someone sees my gun then turns to run I'm not going to shoot them if they're no longer a threat to me or anyone else. If the threat continues by all means. You guys should already have these laws memorized as much as you have your draw technique memorized. Knowing when you can shoot is probably more important than even knowing how to shoot. Hesitation can get you killed.

back up and leave. if they close the distance start wacking

Well ya gotta use it

In a lot of places if the person stopped attacking, you using lethal force is no longer justified.

I would have just teleported behind him.

Preparation is only half the game, the other half is violence.
The dude chose neither violence nor withdrawal from the game, and the other guy chose violence.

If this is your argument, you can’t be helped. Just lay down and die, faggot

Dont brandish it if you aren't ready to use it immediately.
Baton bro has never been in a fight. Shoulda been concerned when homeboy started looking around.

not really it was still as fuck and against somebody not protecting themselves, it was typical redneck haymaker tier, if the boomer was not already sort of clinched up he could have slipped the punches or caught them with the baton and fucked the guys wrists up like how they teach you to use batons in the police

lmao how many of you faggots are fat fucks who've never sparred. slipping punches isn't something only vegeta can do

I knew a guy could really fight because he had a reputation for it. Good fighter, amateur boxer and a lot of MMA experience.

Put a pint glass through the back of his head when he wasn't looking and kicked him as hard as I could in the side of the face when he was on the floor, then ran off.

I have a similar story: i saw an interdimensional santa claus that was also probably a sasquatch.

Not leaving your vehicle, keep distance at all times, keep handgun condition zero, and practice your draw daily?

Its either you draw and kill them, or you don't draw at all. If you have time to "brandish" and reholster you probably didn't play your cards right. It's on them to initiate the point of no-return so to speak, you just legally finish it.

The sad part is the brandishing laws themselves, especially how ridiculously loose their interpretation is. Police use firearms as effective people management tools in situations where no other object could. God fucking forbid you as a non-LEO are caught on camera holding your carry weapon because you were forced to draw in order to stop a group of people from attempting to beat you to death if you had not. The courts will rape the shit out of you.

You're carrying a gun in order to defend yourself, or other people. If defending yourself means you need to kill the opposition then so be it, fuck him, but you don't set out to specifically kill someone.

>whip out baton during argument
>don't make space between you and target to take advantage of reach
>don't step back when target displays clear pre-attack indicators
>don't even attempt to block hits with free hand
>get fucking clobbered
Gee OP, I wonder? Who knew that a weapon you refuse to use is useless?

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>standing in arms reach of the dude
>keeping your face and neck exposed
>holding a weapon so the enemy can see it
Dude is a fucking retard.

If they stop, ensure there is at least 10-15 feet between you and order them to hit the floor with their arms out and palms up. Briefly check around you to make sure there are no remaining threats around and then have someone call the police while you keep Mr. Muffins on the deck via gunpoint.

>the weapon dependent virgin vs the physically capable Chad

>i assaulted a man

That's an aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and an arrest. You better make damn sure you're justified to do that. Even as a cop I can't prone someone out at gunpoint over a simple theft or something. Just don't ever let your gun become your ego, you might end up like that Walmart parking space killer who's going to prison for it.

>another larper
you've never been in a boxing gym in your life manlet, you would have been knocked out cold just like the boomer

>tfw wanna learn MMA but live it podunk town with no gyms close by
>tfw poor so it doesn't matter anyway

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>Dillingham belongs to Jow Forums
Time to get on a boat and wake this faggot up

Get a cheap sandbag and learn the basics you excuse-making fuck. It'd be better then nothing.

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>bladed weapon
>force multiplier
Not a knife. The purpose of a knife is to bypass leverage and blunt trauma mechanics entirely. A completely untrained person with a sharp knife who is a foot shorter and 100 lbs lighter than an opponent who is larger, fit, and trained in martial arts, can kill that fit martial artist with relative ease. They will likely die as well in the process, but who among two dead people won that fight? A sharp knife doesn't require any more force than its own weight to puncture through skin and muscle, and it only needs about 3 inches of penetration to rupture vital organs, with clean wounds that are difficult to treat.

If you're close enough to punch someone, you were close enough to get stabbed by them 5 inches ago. Sure, you could be on the guy in a second and grappling, breaking, and pummeling him, but one slip of that knife in his wild spasms and even if he's dead, and you're standing, you have just minutes of life left to enjoy your victory.

Knives escalate danger to levels on-par with guns. If you use a knife for self-defense, it is meant to be used as a DETRACTOR from a confrontation, because statistically, any encounter with two knife-wielding opponents ends 98% of the time with two dead opponents. A knife should be universally understood as "get close and you or both of us may die", not "heh, I've trained in boxing and BJJ, I'll just slip his obvious right-handed thrust and put him in an arm-breaking hold and...", because especially against un-trained opponents, they are unpredictable, and unlike in a fistfight, you can't just "take one" and keep going, if you're expecting to live

Cop in an urban area who regularly uses physical force on people here, collapsible batons with the exception of the RCB are absolute trash in terms of effectiveness. ASPs in particular are too light to inflict immediately effective force and prone to bending. With modern less lethal force laws in the US being what they are you can't even blast people in the head with your baton anymore which is where you get anything resembling effectiveness from a baton.

Further, most people don't know what to do when a person is presenting as a threat but not actively attacking like in OP's video. They let someone they believe is hostile close with them like in OP's video because the person isn't actively attacking them and then when the threat does choose to actively attack they're fucked because action>reaction. Most people are straight up fucking garbage in a hand to hand fight anyway.

Something else I'll add, if you want to carry something for self defense that is likely to injure or kill another person and you don't have a lawyer's number on speed dial and your state's self defense laws memorized you're a fucking retard. Every time you push someone's shit in you better expect a civil suit no matter how justified you were and if you're not LE expect your use of force to be looked at very closely.

Old guy should have just drawn a line in the sand and hosed MMA down with Sabre Red when he crossed it.

>any encounter with two knife-wielding opponents ends 98% of the time with two dead opponents
I hear/read this a lot, source please.

Fpbp

Anybody who pulls a stick or something on me better use it and they better kill me otherwise I'm gonna use my big iron in their anus

WHERE IS THE FULL FUCKING VIDEO

>Every time you push someone's shit in you better expect a civil suit no matter how justified you were and if you're not LE expect your use of force to be looked at very closely.
This.
Everyone keeps thinking punchman "won" this confrontation, but punchman just fucking assaulted someone on-camera. If he thought he'd get out of paying fines for the car accident that happened or whatever, he's DEFINITELY going to be fucked now. Probably even get his license suspended and can't drive to work, threatening his employment and way of life.

The real best method of self defense is to avoid confrontation entirely. Sure, it may be the "pussy" way out, but if you were the old guy in this video, and you were completely unarmed when punchman knocked you out, the amount of fucked that he is currently in from this footage being public would be multiplied ten-fold. Sure, you've got a black eye, and your ego is heavily wounded, but punchman's kids don't get to go to college now, and his girlfriend is having second thoughts about him.

>I'm gonna use my big iron in their anus

You'd better not be teasing

>any encounter with two knife-wielding opponents ends 98% of the time with two dead opponents
This is like a dumb boomer meme or something. I've seen plenty of one sided knife fights in LE. The only time the wielder gets sliced up too is when he's drunk.

A knife is absolutely a viable weapon and pulling it out doesn't automatically equal getting yourself stabbed. You're the one with the knife, retard.

Pull something and you'll find out

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You seriously overestimate our justice system. He might get charged, but that won't amount to diddly shit in the long run. Holy fuck I have a dui and got a job as a commercial truck driver 5 years later

Lmfao

based Doug Marcaida poster

This.
I carry around bowie knife, and I'm pretty good with it. If I pull my knife on somebody they're getting butchered in about 10 seconds.
Real knife attacks last about 10-15 seconds and the victim is usually unaware

I would disagree. A baton is a good deterrent. Mine extends to about 2 feet. If I pull that bad boy out and hold it two handed like I really know what I'm doing, people are likely to fuck off. Only hand to hand situation where I'd ever deploy it though is if I'm about to be attacked by a group. We're pretty much clear for deadly force in that type of situation, so I'd be able to crack heads. I wouldn't use it in a 1v1 fight or any situation where I'm not allowed to hit in the head/face/neck. It's not that effective for those types of strikes. I'm more confident using my fists in a fight where lethal force isn't likely to be needed, because at least I can hit the head/face with my fists and it's not considered deadly force.

They're also nifty for breaking glass. One recommendation I make is that you keep rubber bands around the handle for extra retention in the holster so it doesn't fall out when running/climbing/fighting.

Shit, just the civil side of that video has any personal injury attorney girding themselves. Boxer clearly isn't homeless so raping him in civil court for the injuries old man sustained will actually net a paycheck.

>thinking a DUI is serious offense
The only state that actually cares about a DUI is Arizona and as long as you keep it a one-time mistake where nobody was killed or injured even there it's just going to be a bump in the road.
>trucker
Ah yes, definitely an occupation known for its law abiding workers.

It depends on what led up to it, but if someone is standing that close to you with a deadly weapon, obviously intending to use it, you're clear for self defense. At least in my state it would fit the justification 100%.

We can only take this short clip at face value though, we don't know what mr. firsts did to cause the baton to come out. You can't accost someone, then assault them and claim self defense.

I have a Brooklyn crusher in my truck. And a bed filled with random tools and heavy metal.
The bat is probably the deadliest thing I have in my truck.

punch guy did nothing wrong

except hesitate

>The only state that actually cares about a DUI is Arizona

Doesn't matter if they care or not. My point is that it's still criminal charges brought against you, just like assault. Thinking that this guy is gonna lose his job and shit because he popped boomerman in the jaw is fucking retarded.

>raping him in civil court for the injuries old man sustained will actually net a paycheck.

You're a moron if you think this will ever happen.

Yeah it's something you whip out and start using. Holding it up like it's a sword or some shit and keeping the guy in punch distance is pretty retardo.

Wonder what happened.

Clever use of distraction and nice hook tho.

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To all the big guys in the thread. Wear logger boots.
I weigh 237lbs (not a fat lard)
I wear 10" logger boots with a 1 3/4" heel on them.
I've walked over grown men like they were not even there. You can also stomp down the sides of their legs, if they're wearing shorts it will cut them like a knife

>I would disagree
With what, specifically?

I really don't buy into the "deterrent" meme, I haven't had to fight a person who wasn't drunk or high in years and the only thing that deterred them was receiving physical force. Rational thinkers generally don't find themselves in a group advancing on armed law enforcement.

If I was surrounded by a group of people who meant me harm I would be cleared for deadly force in which case I would go to my firearm because this is a deadly force situation and the baton is intentionally designed from the ground up as less lethal. Having a baton in your hand also puts you at an even worse reactionary position if a member of the group decides to access a deadly weapon against you.

I just carry a multitool with a glass breaker.

> The only time the wielder gets sliced up too is when he's drunk.
>You're the one with the knife, retard.
Just to be clear, I'm not talking about that "You're more likely to get stabbed by your own knife" meme that's been going around, I'm talking about a knife fight between two aware knife-armed people. Two knives in the mix. The chances of you getting into stab range, scoring enough stabs to dissuade or kill your opponent, and getting out without being stabbed by your opponent's knife, are not completely zero, but they're damn close, regardless of training. If you're close enough to stab him, he's close enough to stab you. Stabs happen in the blink of an eye, and will very likely kill someone, but it won't stop someone instantly, so even if you get a fatal stab in without getting stabbed, well, now you're in stabbing range, your knife is busy, and he's still very much alive for a few seconds, very stabby, and now has nothing to lose. Both parties most often end up fatally wounding each other before the fight is over. Again, not 100% of the time, but it's not exactly a chance you want to risk if you have anything to lose.

Best way to survive any kind of knife encounter is to be the first to draw, get one stab in to distract and prove you're not fucking around, then immediately run the fuck away as fast/far as possible. The longer you are within range of a knife-armed opponent, the less likely you are to survive, barring some advantage like armor or him being severely intoxicated.

It's not about the punchman winning, it's about getting knocked down and potentially suffer serious injuries from assault. Granted the baton man isn't making the best decisions around town but winning in court might not seem so favorable when you get a broken bone or internal bleeding or whatever that happens to the losing member of fist fights.

>My point is that it's still criminal charges brought against you, just like assault.
I understand that but your point is silly, all crimes are not equal. Comparing your one-off DUI to a violent assault captured on film with the potential to go viral (if that's what occurred since we only have a fraction of the video) is apples/oranges.

If you aren't homeless and get involved in a physical altercation then being involved in a civil lawsuit where you are found financially liable by the courts and have to pay is a real possible outcome.

Thats epic

his tell was that half-flinch forward before punching, an "almost-feint" sort of

you never let someone get that close and if they are, especially while you have a baton, out you better be hitting them with it

>Hurr, I wuz blocking his path and threatening him with a weapon then he gave me boo boos on my face plz gibs monies

Don't think so, friendo

If you're a bitch it won't matter, you'll just annoy someone when you inevitably hit their thighs or triceps/shoulders. If the other guy raises his arm, which is a common reaction, you'll be very unlikely to hit their head. You must train with whatever you use and try not to be a weak little bitch. Hell, even cops have to wail on people over and over sometimes and then resort to a taser after they use batons.

>237 lbs
>10" shoes
You're fat.

I don't know the whole story because I have only seen OP's video but it's certainly within the realm of possibility that old man was legally in the right to block MMA from leaving and threaten him with a weapon and that MMA had no legal grounds for his assault. I don't know the totality of the circumstances.

I've been hit with a 20oz framing hammer, baseball bat, 1" thick steel bar, steel digging bar. All sucked really bad, but none stopped me. The digging bar knocked me on my ass but I got back up

10" as in the height if the boot from the sole. They're 11 1/2, I can wear 12s just fine also, though there a slight bit loose. I'm just a big guy, not really fat

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Disagree that batons are shit. The ones we have don't bent that badly, there have been instances where they bend enough to not close in which case you get reissued one, but it's still a bent piece of steel in the fight.

Guess my folly is not shying away from a fair (enough) fight. A good shoot of one suspect is difficult enough to get cleared from. Could you imagine the shitstorm you'd go through shooting 3-4 college kids in a protest that surrounded you? I'd rather just beat their dumb söybrained heads in.