Bow vs crossbow

Recurve. You're less likely to fuck up with them and they cost less.

>that doesn't permanently run out of ammo in a shtf scenario
make a proper arrow. it's not just a sharp stick. surely you realize that.

>doesn't permanently run out of ammo in a shtf scenario
Have fun shooting shitty makeshift wooden arrows from a compound, you'll be lucky not to end up with the pieces in your eyeballs. Get more ammo, no kind of SHTF scenario will last long enough for you to burn through thousands of stocked rounds. You'll die much sooner than you run out.

>We're not all in America friendo.
Then stock on actual arrows and/or black powder, caps and balls. Scavenging for supplies in SHTF is a big meme. The entire point of prepping is so you don't have to resort to any dumb shit like this.

Yes, but in the case you can't make a proper arrow, a "sharp stick" will still be way better than nothing.

A scenario where you have to leave your home in shtf is very plausible and there's a limit to how much ammo you can take before it starts lowering your survivability.
To be clear, I'm not talking normal shtf which lasts 6 months at most.
I'm talking the "95% of humans are dead" kind of shtf. An actual doomsday scenario if you will.

not really, a flawed arrow breaks apart or hooks off in some crazy direction. now you've exposed yourself and your intent. bows and arrows are an easy concept but deceptively hard to execute.

Good luck trying to make aluminum arrows without civilization.

>A scenario where you have to leave your home in shtf is very plausible
Yes, it is. That's why you should have an actual bug out location with supplies you are bugging out to. Please don't tell me you are one of those idiots who thinks "going innawoods" or any other flavor of "grabbing a pack and wandering aimlessly" is anything other than an extremaly bad idea only reserved for the most desperate. Which shouldn't be you if you're prepping. Again, that's the whole point. Preparing so you don't have to take risks. Leave that for normies with no choice.

>I'm talking the "95% of humans are dead" kind of shtf. An actual doomsday scenario if you will.
Ammo will be even less of an issue in that case. Ttying to cook up some shitty arrows and black powder is not a worthy use of your time in such a situation.

Both are still so expensive though. I never realized bows could cost so much. They are almost as bad as furnitures. Wow being an adult is so hard. I wish I could just neet it up like back when I was a kid and play vidya instead.

better off with an atlatl in that situation I'd think. Simpler, easier to make / repair. Will use basically any sharp stick you find / make.
That or a sling, then you only need rocks and some skill.

Atlatls are so cool but I hesitate to go into it because it doesn't have the same amount of support archery does.

Eh, I'll have to look at the minimum requirements for a "proper arrow" then

You can downgrade arrows to wood.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you can make gunpowder without sulfur

Or just get a gun and more ammo, get over it. There's no reason to get all the way back to throwing sticks, other than LARPing.

>b-but I live in a no guns country
I don't give a shit what shithole you are from, as long as it's not Japan or North Korea you have to access to some modern firearms or bows/crossbows/black powder cap&balls at worst. And if you are really considering a total TEOTWAWKI scenario where most people died you don't have to worry about confication. For the record, I'm not american either. I have both modern firearms and a number of unregistered black powder cap&balls no one needs to know about. Considering a bow, too.

>Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you can make gunpowder without sulfur
There are in fact many ways to make gunpowder without sulphur. Regardless, sulphur is the 5th most common element on Earth and it would be extremely easy (if very unpleasant) to collect.

If everyone's dead, they'll be ample ammo, mong

Recurve > compound > crossbow for shit hits the fan
Crossbow > bow in a stand or blind
Bow=crossbow standing seated in the open
Crossbow >bow for stalk and spot

And everyone can manufacture gunpowder. It probably wont be as good as the commercially made powder, but neither will your shitty handmade arrows.

Can you please explain to me how would ammo just appear out of nowhere according to the level of shtf? A limited amount of ammo exists. Going innawoods is incompatible with finding someone's ammo stashes. Or "finding" them on the owner.
Said ammo stashes are virtually impossible to find in non-Jow Forums places. Especially once the police stations are cleared out.

Also, please stop strawmanning me

A spear would be pretty handy.

The sling. What did I win?

>it'll run out eventually
Except that people will just make more
>good luck trying to get gunpowder without a civilization
A few problems.
1, gunpowder is very easy to make and does not require civilization. Conquistadors managed to do it just fine immediately upon arriving in the new world.
2, Civilizations do not collapse. Even in the worst disasters in human history, civilization has not gone away. No matter what happens, gunpowder will still be made. Your fallout fantasy is exactly that. A fantasy.
3, you do not understand how difficult it is to make a bow and arrows. I will bet you I can make suitable gunpowder before you make an arrow of equivalent quality.
4, a lifetime supply of .22lr costs under a thousand dollars, and would be infinitely more effective and practical in a fight than a bow, it can be used for hunting even large game. There is no need to produce ammo.
>muh I'm a retardo eurofag I can't into guns
Yes you can.

An atlatl is a good idea, I just tend to not remember that it exists.
The problem with slings is that I have no idea how to make anything similar to a rubber band in function

Slings aren't slingshots.

Huh. I do admit that I know nothing about geology.

Just realistically, what are your intentions? Are you going to start an army and havd extended trench warfare with it? In every other scearios you can stock up and keep ammo healthy to last all your lifetime and your offspring too.

There is no gun shops here. No armed gangs. Police walk without firearms unless it's the spec ops. I can make a gun. But I can't make bullets.
Don't assume that everyone can get some just because you can do it in your random country

What country user

Oh, yes. I forgot that unarmed civilians turn into ammo pickups as they die.

Thank you for actually taking about the topic.

Instant death at your first encounter for choosing a shit weapon.

Even japs can get guns. It's not the easiest thing, but they can. And fuck, if you're north korean, join the army. Guns.

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My arrows won't kill me if I mess up. At least not directly.

>Can you please explain to me how would ammo just appear out of nowhere according to the level of shtf?
Can you please explain to me how one makes it to 18 with such poor reading comprehension?
>stock on ammo
>if buging out, have more ammo stocked in the bug out location
>if bugging out without a bug out location, like the idiot you are, carry a shit ton of ammo
>there will be very few opportunities to run out of ammo in all those scenarios if 95% of world's population is fucking dead
Just admit you are fantasizing about stupid shit instead of looking for practical solutions. This isn't a video game. But what do I know, have fun wasting precious hours and energy to carve shitsticks that break and gouge your eyes or fucking months to wait for your piss to nitride to make shitty powder. All with the gear you couldn't possibly carry without bugging in, and if you could, you could also carry more ammo. Dumbfuck.

the best middle ground is air rifles. they can still be powerful enough to injure or kill, and you dont need volatile compounds, just some material that you can work with the tools available to you to make balls/slugs/pellets/whatever will fit in the bore of your specific gun

you can make o-rings out of leather, stupid. you can make them out of anything sufficiently soft and smooth, really

>I'm talking the "95% of humans are dead" kind of shtf. An actual doomsday scenario if you will.

An air rifle strong enough to be adequate for self-defense can't shoot whatever you put in it. But pellets are pretty smal and light, it can be a viable option if your country has shitty gun laws but doesn't ban powerful air rifles.

If 95% of everyone is dead, make your way to the nearest police station, moron.

Ok, I'm leaving so here are the conclusions:
-gunpowder is extremely easy to make and basically I'm fucking wrong
-machined gun parts are not easy to make so all of you fuckers will be reduced to shotgun pipes and diy muskets
-fuck captcha

Source on the manga? Looks mildly interesting.

>you can make them out of anything sufficiently soft and smooth, really
Good luck with that seal. The best alternative would be precision machining metallic replacement rings. It is the only reason O-rings are even used is to cut costs on being precise

Oh. Fuck.

If you want to fuck around and have fun, recurve
If you want to get seriously into bowhunting, compound.

I Am a Hero. Basically, zombie survival story in Japan. But the main character is a legal shotgun owner.

If you can make a gun you can make boolets for it, even if they dont qualify as boolets by todays standard.
You really have no idea just how hard is it to make an arrow worth something. It looks like you think you can carry more arrows than ammo. You cant. Arrows are lighter, yes, but much more bulky,try carrying 200 .22lr and 200 arrows.

No intentions. Just wanted to hear opinions but everyone is apparently /gunsonly/

>gunpowder is extremely easy to make and basically I'm fucking wrong
I doin't know what gave you that idea. Modern smokeless powder is pretty much impossible to make without factory equipment. Black powder can be made rather easily if you know how to, but it will be an extremaly time condsming process if you're making the nitrate yourself with very low yields of very questionable quality.

If you just asked about bows and crossbows without the faggotry, it wouldn't have come to this.

Because gun is the apex and you would be lets say, not smart, for not going with guns. Nogunz Europe is a myth, you can have rifles in any caliber, you just dont go to the store and tell hey i needz rifles and 25k ammo because imma prepping for zombie apoc, you need to become a hunter. Its that easy.

>Just wanted to hear opinions but everyone is apparently /gunsonly/
It's been stated that bows and crossbows are fine if that's your only option, just don't count on making arrows yourself, stock up on actual arrows beforehand. I'm sorry the reality doesn't conform to what video games with crafting taught you.

Edit:easy,yes. Cheap? Oh boy.

even abbos Back In The Day were very selective about what they made arrows from, and would use fire or steam to soften and straighten them, then fire-harden the tips if they didn't have proper arrowheads (which aren't just LOL GROG ATTACH POINTY ROCK 2 STICK, knapping flint is a art and even then aerodynamics and accuracy may be adversely affected)

just using a plain sharpened stick is literally subhuman tier you fucking mutt

>There's still some irreplaceable parts in air guns,
1. name any
2. make a new air gun out of whatever you can raid a hardware store for, lots of people have done it

>An air rifle ... can't shoot whatever you put in it.
even toys can't. i meant that statement more in the sense of "make whatever is intended for your particular model", not "stuff corks down the bore and hope for the best"

>hmm, instead of using something malleable between these two mating surfaces to create a seal, i will just lap them perfectly smooth and flush between every fucking usage of those parts to ensure a perfect seal in 100% of atmospheric conditions and at all possible states of (dis)repair
the absolute STATE of americans. ok good luck with your plan, the rest of the world has o-rings and plumber's tape and soldering/brazing and shit to seal stuff

protip: even metal o-rings are usually made of brass or copper or something that'll squish down. the easiest way to get smooth mating surfaces is to use something soft enough to just fill in the gap

the real takeaways from these threads are that:
- americans underestimate modern manufacturing and think that they can make modern ammo out of horse piss and grass clippings
- americans can't conceive of a weapon other than a modern rifle, a slam-bang, or simply manually yeeting a rock upon someone.
- americans don't understand gun laws anywhere

Can you afford a driver's license and a shitty used car to go with it? Then you can afford a gun license and a decent gun with plenty of ammo to go with it. That's the case in most countries.

>impossible to make without factory equipment
Are you telling us Jow Forumstards dont have a map with all of them factories marked with big, red X-es to take over in boogaloo?

OP is clearly underaged, so no I don't think he can afford those things.

>even toys can't.
Eh, maybe it would be capable of leaving the barrel and going nowhere once in a while. Assuming you clear the squibs. But yes, air rifles are hardly blunderbusses. They work exactly like an actual rifle does in that context.

Read your previous posts retard.
And don't assume that I fantasize about shtf like you, if that happens I'll just die and be done with it.

this, idk why yankees think guns are so impossible to get everywhere. even in canada it's like 80 bucks and gun prices are basically identical to in the us

shit nigger i get Bass Pro Shops flyers in my junk mail and there's always ads for Auto-5s and various durr rifles in it, along all the fancy rangefinders and blinds and shit (oddly, fishing gear is never in those flyers)

Middle ground between bows and crossbows?

Bolt actions and revolvers are goto SHTF
tools.
You can run black powder with no issues.
You can hand load them both with literally hand tools.
Gun powder is easy as fuck to make. You know assholes, people lived before that advent of
the friggin light bulb..you people do know that right?

middle ground between bows and ranged weapons that are not bows or bow-based

Have any of you heard of the word "hypothetical"?

Yeah, not in Europe. Hunting licence costs a fuckton of money and in some countries you need to join a hunting company thats anpther 4 fucktons of money and a yearly fee for the state because fuck me, then you are allowed to pay 4 times the US price for even the shittiest 3006 bolt action and $5 for 5 fmj boolets because fuck me.
Its easy, just costs insane amount of money.

>a people who can't conceive of making a gasket out of anything other than sillicone should be expected to survive even a minor disaster, let alone an extinction scenario

many americans die every year because it snows once or twice in an area it normally doesn't, and you think you're gonna survive nuclear zombie exchange based flood feat. race war 2000? lol

>in Europe.
europe is not a single country you larping retard

There's n rounds of extant ammo, if 99% of the population is wiped out by a super plague, there's still n rounds

MONG.

>americans..
>americans..blahh blahh
you sound real asshurt about not being ALLOWED by your MASTERS to own a firearm.

>earth collides with the sun or whatever
>all the ammo in the world teleports to your doorstep

>boolets

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Well, this entire thread is full of "yankees" telling eurofags to just buy guns because they aren't actually impossible to get in other coutnries. So...

is that why its ruled by the EU and has no real existing?

Cant you read,nigger?
>That's the case in most countries
no, user, not in Europe, here in most countries you cant have a gunlicence if you are not police, armed security and alike and that is for pistols,not rifles, the only way to get rifles in any meaningful caliber is a hunting license and that costs fuckton of money
>no user, Europe is not a single country

Pardon me, I literally forgot that I said anything other than "bow vs crossbow" in the op.
I derailed my own thread.
I'm fucking retarded.

>Yeah, not in Europe.
Yeah, in Europe. I spent less on my license and gun that I did on my driver's license and car.

>then you are allowed to pay 4 times the US price for even the shittiest 3006 bolt action
Markets differ, no shit. Poverty pony ARs are expensive as fuck here, AKs can be had for peanuts. If you're a hunter limited to bolt actions only, Tikkas are fantastic and not THAT expensive.

Attached: p10chstl.jpg (4032x3024, 3.06M)

you
>pays tax stamp
sound
>appeals to ATF to own a 10/22
real
>gets stabbed by mexican
asshurt
>pees in a jug because he can't buy gunpowder
about
>asks online how to make a gun from pipes
not
>gets told to download a geriatric bonglander's book about it
being
>gets arrested for looking at a 3d printer
ALLOWED
>gets expelled from school for playing Halo at home
by your
>boomers ban you from forums for admiring a "tupperware" glock
MASTERS
>can't tie shoes; shoestrings are banned by ATF
to own
>dog gets shot
a firearm
>gets invaded by californians

>and that costs fuckton of money
1. """europe""" encompasses a lot of countries that have varying gun laws
2. even the ones that have it it's like 80 bucks at most are you a fucking poorfag or something lmao a driver's license and car registration costs more than that

>for a pistol
Pistols are not guns. Rifles are guns. Good luck hunting your food and defending your property with a pistol.

>Pistols are not guns.
americans, everyone.

You have never been to Europe, i see.

actually i have. just because people arent shooting up schools 24/7 doesnt mean there aren't gun clubs, hunters, shooting sports, and plain ol' just people who wanna have a gun because they like it

in fact, when i was in bongland, i actually did visit a gun store. they had hunting air rifles and a couple of .22s (it was a shitty mall property that mostly sold edgy knives and airsoft/larp accessories like admin pouches and those weird notebooks that dont get wet)

Pistols are firearms. A gun has a long barrel and a large calibre. Keep larping.

>.22 gallery rifle and 4.5mm floberts
Okay user.

if you're gonna get autistic, then man-portable rifles are not guns either, and your post added nothing to this discussion. as a result, i recommend you miss us with your gay shit, coastie roastie

The rifle is on its way. A handgun was a priority since I'm allowed to carry one. I could buy a new AK for the equivalent of $800 or less right now if I wanted to. Don't backpedal.

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Ach, yes, large caliber is something over 400mm, let me guess.

>4.5mm floberts
don't you dare talk shit about weird calibres. i bet you get triggered by 6.8 too you little shit. i will fuck

Whats the justification for carrying? Money transport?

Fuck then, 6.8 is what, .270? Man.

>400mm
Use real measurements, please.

15.5 or something like that.

realpost it's a meme round designed to compete with .223 and never took off too far because what fucking madman would compete with .223. iirc it's a similar shell but necked up, with less powder, specifically so you can use it with suppressors more easily