Who had the better military?

Damn I thought us Californians were starting to get serious about our gun rights for a minute.

Thanks for letting me down again California couch operators

>philosopher king
>"I read Hegel one time, bro. Trust me."

NCR by far, mainly because they actually have a functioning industry capable of mass producing new firearms and ammunition, the Legion use whatever they can scavenge and the closest thing they have to weapons production is some guys taping knives to long sticks.

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NCR rekt the BoS. The brotherhood might have some fancy power armor suits, but the NCR has an organized military, professional logistics and industrial capabilities to fuel the war effort. Oh, and shitloads of boots to throw at the enemy. Dont forget the NCR is also an actual motorized force and has access to (limited) air support.

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NCR
>more man power
>meh logistics
>stronger economic base

Legion
>better disciplined
>not dependent on tech

eh, the brotherhood have all of the above on the east coast, the west coast chapter was small originally and was already half wiped out and in hiding by the game timeline in New vegas. If one of the east coast chapters showed up with a flying aircraft carrier et al. the NCR would be *so* fucked

NCR is fucking massive user. And their tech level is very high. Sure it's not enclave level high, but remember the NCR does have enclave tech laying around. NCR medical science is also top notch due to the incorporation of Vault City. Shady Sands itself is also nothing to sneeze at. Then there's the high tech Shi, who have amiable relations with the NCR. There's also the possibility that they've been absorbed completely as well. The NCR is a juggernaut and right now only really hamstrung by internal corruption and weak leadership. It's a fully fledged nation state with all the bells and wistles. The east coast brotherhood is a modern day knightly order of neoluddites. They have strong warrior caste, but that's about it.

east coast isn't canon
if only Elijah had gotten Archimedes working

ignorelegionposters.jpg

ECB has a sizable manufacturing base and much better tech. They can manufacture new T-60 armor.
Unironically, 20 more years and both coasts are going to be bulldozing ruins for new construction and be back on the path to modernity. Roads, schools, power grids and supermarkets. Aircraft. Tanks.

Bethshit lore doesn't count

The (north)east coast is a literal wasteland. We know from lore that the only manufacturing of note was the Pitt, which was a fucking shithole driven by slavery. No large nation state exists with a unified people and an industrial base to support growth and innovation. The BoS was trying to do some nation building under Lyons, though it was far removed from the scale witnessed on the west coast. Maxson is basically mostly reverting back to the BoS roots trying to police the wasteland on matters of tech. There's no real, concentrated effort to build an actual nation. It's far closer to a feudal state society. Again, you are seriously underestimating just how fucking large the NCR is. It's all unified under one flag, one leadership. And they've been at it for a while.

Oh and power armor is not all that great. It's main advantage was being able to equip individual troopers with crew served weaponry. The lore is sometimes all over the place, but they were far from indestructible suits. Even if you were to augment the BoS forces with forced wastelander conscription, you still wouldn't be able to match the numbers of the unified NCR military.

Ncr without a doubt. Which is probably the reason beth will find a reason to nuke them so they can continue their dumbass shantytown aesthetic 300 years after the war in the next fallout.

>the next fallout
They wouldn't bother. Fallout 76 will ensure that we don't get a proper new installment for years to come, either because the failure of said game is enough of a reason to put the series on ice or because it'll be easier for them to pump out DLC for that failed abortion.

Arn't the NCR troopers mostly moaning because they're fighting some distant war with insufficient support. In an all out war the NCR probably would allocate the necessary resources to their forces and morale wouldn't be an issue. Hoover dam was basically the best of the Legion vs some unsupported conscripts backed by elite ranger elements.

Game mechanics are the only reason why it's even a discussion. Take away the RPG systems and the guy with armor and an AR15 will kill the LARPer with sports equipment and a machete 999 times out of 1000.

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NCR obviously. If Caesar would actually modernize his antiquated pack of spear chucking tribals he would have been in New California by the time of the events of New Vegas, but since he's a stubborn cripple of a dictator...

Objectively the NCR, the Legion may be big but they were stretched completely thin and mostly fought against a bunch of barely armed tribals, the NCR has an actual military and even a small air force, as well as roflstomped them out of Hoover Dam before with their volunteer/conscript force against some of the Legions best. Their issue is with logistics which is why so many of the troopers are as bitchy and careless as they are, but if they actually put attention to said logistics then they are basically pre war US military and even society tier as far as the wasteland goes, and the closest thing to an actual country there is. The Legion are literal larpers led by some dude who read some books and thinks he’s the actual Caesar himself, and it is hinted pretty heavily the entire Legion and 86 tribes are going to suffer massive infighting at best and complete Aztec tier collapse at worst once he dies.

This. The Legion got where it got because Caesar was smart enough to trick enough low IQ tribals into joining his LARP club. The First Battle of Hoover Dam showed that even an NCR force that lacks sufficient support will wreck the Legion. The only reason that can change is if a mailman had a soft spot for dudes in sporting equipment.

Caesar doesnt think he is THE caesar. He just uses it as a symbol. Imperial Rome is a pretty evocative one at that. It's why he surpresses any actual history knowledge, lest he be exposed as a larper. But Im pretty sure the top of the legion are in on it as well. It wouldnt really work otherwise.

What about fallout tactics? I know it kinda straddles the line of being canon or not but if it's to be believed then the BoS can get some real shit going if the stop being so god damn reclusive

It's canon that there is a Midwestern (actually Eastern) Chapter of the Brotherhood, but the events of Fallout Tactics aren't canon.

The NCR does, but the Legion could be a lot better if they improved their industrial base and used more guns.
Maybe yeet the guns from the White Legs, a full contubernium armed with 1928A1's, 12.7mm SMG's, and Riot Guns would be a game changer.
Honestly it'd be a lot more of an even fight if Todd hadn't fucked over Obsidian with 18 months to make the game.

>just get an industrial infrastructure bro

The ants rekted the lizard.

>organized military, professional logistics and industrial capabilities to
Did you even play newVegas? They couldn't even hold California let alone Mojave.

So the gun runners can build guns but the legion and NCR cant?

Not him, but lol what? NCR soldiers literally say the core regions are secure af. No raiders or anything.

NCR can, but the legion can't. Ideological reasons aside (they hate technology), the legions lands don't have industry. And even if it did, the legion doesn't have the knowledge to operate it.

They're literally just sitting there, places like the Pitt, Gun runners HQ and abandoned joints like H&H tool price that there's just shit waiting to crank stuff out

That was the legion and they cant even fuck up the fiends in the mohave.
Theres a quest in nv where Hanlon questions how well the NCR can live with corruption and it's over size.
This is someone who knows the lore.

what did he mean by this?

>No raiders or anything
And it's the same for the legion.
I remember traders saying how they would rather trade under the legion because those caravans dont get raided.

I was replying to the user saying NCR couldn't hold california, which isn't true. The core region is completely safe and under firm NCR control.

Midwest Brotherhood of Steel>NCR>institute=east coast BOS> legion

Midwest being the strongest because they have a very large military consisting of humans, ghouls, super mutants, intelligent death claws and facilities that make giant freaking robots. Unlike the other factions who purge super mutants the midwest BOS incorporated them into their military and is attempting to revert them to human. They are also lead by a single individual who is more or less incapable of becoming corrupt.

gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/959557-fallout-new-vegas/58013865
Neither the legion or the NCR can past because they still lever learned from the past.
With the tunnlers becoming a problem in doubt anything will last.

You replied to me twice.

At Solar two BoS lost to the NCR after killing squad after squad

nma-fallout.com/threads/ncr-vs-caesars-legion-who-will-win.213167/
The core region also has to deal with corruption and brahmin rustlers/barons starting shit.

Thats just about the Mojave though. No way the Legion can fight the NCR on their home turf. They wouldn't be facing an ill supplied and unmotivated army there.

The enclave and BOS are only losing due to numbers.
Everything else is impeccable.

Yeah but the corruption doesn't make really mean the NCR can't hold its own territory. The barons ARE the NCR as well after all. It's just political infighting.

The enclave has shit security measures across all games
It also screws them across all games

t. ulysses

>here's your free power armor bro
>t-thanks sarge

They wouldn't have to if they have the legion.
And Ulysses is gonna bomb the I 15 any way.

If I LIKED you, you could call me Sarge. But guess what? I DON'T LIKE YOU!

>Yeah but the corruption doesn't make really mean the NCR can't hold its own territory.
They cant, plenty of NCR towns are plagued by raiders old and new.
Most people left California to go to the Mojave just to get some money.

Fallout 3 and 4 never happened.

It was a good DLC.

I mean the NCR can expand north. Hoover Dam is a tempting target, but the NCR will survive without it. Legion needs that expansion though, it will collapse if there is no great 'other' to fight and plunder.
People left the NCR proper because there was no work or other oppertunities. Raiders are an issue in the Mojave true, but not in the republic itself.

Ulysses was full of shit and I was happy the DLC gave us the oppertunity to point out his hypocrisy.

Without 3 we wouldn't have New Vegas.

>on rails linear shooter with new over the top OP shit with barely any dialogue other than muh bear muh bull from a pretentious fag
HH(for Randall Clark and Joshua alone) > DM > OWB > LR

It pains me to admi thatt you are right. It also pains me to admit that if Van Buren happened, it would most likely be shit. But it doesn't change the fact that both 3 and 4 are garbage.

Hey, there's F4NV and Fallout Miami to look forward to. They look excellent so far.

Enlightened as fuck post.

It still surprised the fuck out of me you could get the best armor in game with a simple speech check early in the game if you played your card right.

Well you can speedrun the first Fallout in much the same way in literally 2 minutes in much the same way. Game at that time didn't really care about meta like this.

>Who had the better military?
Enclave

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Except they got btfo by the NCR.

Because you were forced into destroying them

>when you wear football padding in the belief it will stop .223 and 5.56 rounds but all it does is dehydrate and exhaust your non-motorized 100% light infantry army that relies on literal human trains for logistical purposes and also forbids the use of firearms unironically

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>forced

*dabs on the legion*

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Did he? I don't really remember that DLC. He got fired as legate (in more ways than one) and just lived with the tribals, didnt he?

Neither the player is supposed to break the stalemate of the 2?equally matched opponents or the player can tell both sides to fuck off

>t. Chris Avellone
Fuck off and let the wasteland rebuild.

legion because I want to be surrounded by hot guys in football gear

The NCR.
The only reason the legion did as well as it did was because for some reason, humans have a freakishly high resistance to being shot, which makes melee combat completely viable in a world where firearms are plentiful.

>Take .308 to the face
>Shake it off like nothing happened

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>we will never have a proper 3d fallout made with a proper engine and good solid quests
fuck besthesda

>Did he?
He killed a shit ton of Caesar's Frumentarii

Legion. Really, imagine getting your ass handed to you by some Roman larpers. REALLY THINK about it, I know it's hard for NCR-fags to do, but you have to realize that the NCR as a country has really come together, akin to a modern America. Yet, their logistics and discipline are shit, so the Legion kicks their ass on the daily.

Fucking retarded profligates

>Who had the better military?
You, the main character.

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Mr. House

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this guy here
factions are just for story purposes. if you play the game right you will slowly become a demigod. thats how all bethesda games work

This, Nothing stops the money

All these anons posting about how the NCR has a huge military with modern weapons, vehicles, and an industrial base and economy that puts them on par with a modern nation state are hilariously wrong.
Did you even play the game?
The NCR is a cargo cult of the old USA living off the corpse of the old world. Its economy is in shambles and it has no political unity.
The reason the NCR in the Mojave is in such bad condition when you run through the game is that they lack the economic and political power to project any more than the very limited amount of forces they already have there.

The NCR military is demoralized and lacks leadership at almost all levels. As you go through the game you constantly encounter military leaders saying "well i cant actually accomplish my mission because of political or logistical reasons, please mr player, do everything we need in order to not totally lose this campaign"
You also encounter enlisted who hate their jobs, suck at soldiering, dont care about the mission and just want to go home alive.

The NCR is a paper tiger. a Rotten house that is one swift kick away from total collapse.

Neither, Fallout is garbage, fuck you

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>The NCR has a modern military with guns, they would totally dominate the legion's melee based tactics

Maybe they would win engagements where the Legion is forced to attack head on in a mass charge, but you wont see that outside of a few strategic key points like the dam itself.

Both NCR and Legion are non mechanized non motorized infantry. The NCR has a very few preciously guarded aircraft. Their infantry is not supported by vehicles. Their logistics are based around pack animals just like the Legion are based around pack slaves.
Therefore the NCR has no advantage in tactical or strategic mobility or logistics.

In fact if we examine the tactical and strategic doctrines of NCR, we see that their lack of modern transport but their insistence on modern weapons and tactics puts them at a great disadvantage when fighting in the Mojave. They arent really modern at all. The best comparison would be the US Army in the Spanish American War era, with a higher capacity autoloading rifle (and in a world full of cazadores and deathclaws, maybe 5.56's advantage in ammunition capacity becomes irrelevant, but thats another argument)
The NCR is spread out very thin. They've got bases everywhere but theyre undermanned and they cannot patrol or control the surrounding areas.
The individual NCR soldier is overburdened by heavy armor and clothing, his weapon and other kit. He cannot go very far from his base because he cannot live in the wastes with such a heavy combat load, and isnt suited to foraging.

okay casear

NCR is partly motorized. No real infrastructure in the mojave, but you can see their supply trucks in the depot.

Camp Maccaran? Yeah there are a few trucks there. There arent any at any of the other bases that i can remember. Which implies that the vehicles they do have are carefully guarded and limited to their central base and headquarters. I know that the game engine didnt allow active vehicles, but the lack of NCr vehicle models elsewhere is enough to determine that they arent really motorized in any useful sense.

Every single NCR base in the game tells you their short on men or material, and the legion is appearing in places they shouldnt be, and they cannot control anything beyond the wire.

No thats just the power of the creation engine. Same reason Vegas is 5 buildings. The supply line is stretched and they really need that rail connection up and running, but the NCR has access to a pretty large fleet of trucks.

Exemplified in Skyrim by some npc laying out a detailed plan for assaulting a fortress, and your response is "or, you guys just wait here and I'll take care of it by myself."

The legion has similar problems. The stalemate exists because both armies tried to grab too much, too fast.

>This. The Legion got where it got because Caesar was smart enough to trick enough low IQ tribals into joining his LARP club. The First Battle of Hoover Dam showed that even an NCR force that lacks sufficient support will wreck the Legion. The only reason that can change is if a mailman had a soft spot for dudes in sporting equipment.

Good luck that ever happening when your first contact of Legion is Nipton. Pretty much every game I started that I would play proLegion character has pretty much failed at that point. As has the life of Vulpes Inculta and his goon squad.

Frank Horrigan vs the legion's best. Who wins?

I disagree that the limitations of the engine prevented the developers from placing static truck models at various NCR camps in order to represent their use of motorized vehicles.
There are hundreds and hundreds of vehicle hulks scattered throughout the game map.
They could have added NCR trucks at the various camps if they wanted to show that the NCR had significant motorization. They didnt.

Prior to the final battle at the Dam, the Legion has destroyed or overrun 4 different NCR outposts. They are actively patroling a large section of the west bank of the river and have multiple bases there. Is this really a stalemate?

Read the notes and such in Nipton. They deserved everything they got. It really was a town of whores who sold out to everyone.

Disagree if you want, it's in the Fallout bible
fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Fallout_Bible_5#Questions

They even talk about a mechanized division.