Since I haven't had any raccoons to purge in a long while I've shifted focus to completing some lingering projects. I've finally finished up my Novem rifle as a test bed for my 9mm 147gr characterization endeavor. The goals are to determine which factory 9mm 147 grain ammo has the best speed and accuracy. I've heard others here post that some of their 9mm 147 was far below 1000 ft/sec and I want to separate the wheat from the chaff before I order in large quantity. I am not setup to reload my ammo. I figured I might as well share my findings with you bastards.
The test bed is a 9mm bolt action, 7" barrel, ported at 5" with a large volume integral silencer, yielding similar (or ever so slightly faster) velocity than a fullsize handgun. Trigger is single stage and has been reworked down from 7 pounds to between 2.5 and 3 with a very clean break.
All shots will be prone, from bipod using a falcon 4-14x scope (this was my spare scope and all I had laying around, will eventually upgrade to a better scope). I will not re-zero the scope between sessions. All posted targets will be at least 5 rounds, none of that 3 round statistical trash. Any changes to methodology will be noted. All shots will be taken at 50 yards (confirmed by LRF) to minimize effect of wind drift, but still far enough demonstrate shot-to-shot variance which may be masked at closer ranges. I will try to note temp and winds. On windy days I will delay shots between gusts as long as needed. I will attept to keep barrel temp down. I will post results as I have time to shoot them. Muzzle velocity will be measured via doppler radar chrono, I've found it far better and less problematic than the light sampling chronos. I will post average and standard deviation. I will post some sample groups from the box, looking for typical, best and worst.
Personal expectations: I dont expect any sub MOA performance from factory 9mm ammo. None of these manufacturers are expecting anyone to launch these pills 100 yards, but lets see what we can find. I want to use this platform to pick off occasional nuisance animals as well as bang steel at 100 to 150Y. My acceptance criteria will be ammo with good accuracy (~2MOA would be acceptable) and around 1000 ft/sec or better.
This will probably take 2-weeks to complete given my free time and dependency on abundance of sunny afternoons. I will make a new thread if the old ones slide off to archive. If you dont like that, fuck off now and go back to jacking off to trap porn, waifu pillows and gook drawings or whatever the fuck. Lets see how we fare.
14-SEP-2019 results WINCHESTER SUPER-X Temps were mid 70s, winds were sporadic from calm to 15mph. I spent 10-15 rounds getting the scope zero'd and getting familiar with this rifle and then let the barrel assembly cool. I shot numerous groups, no time to post pictures of all of them, but this is typical: tight group with a flyer.
Average speed: 998 ft/sec Standard Deviation: 10.5
This target is typical, about 1.25" center to center.
Sincere thanks. SIA (special interest arms in nevada) made the base rifle, the owner of that establishment is now retired. I hope someone picks up where he left off and continues to make similar rifles on the TCM22 platform. The factory stock left a lot to be desired. I had to design a new one allowing full free-float of the integral.
Alexander Russell
is there a reason that the pistol grip is so far from the trigger
Liam Campbell
Good eye, 2 reasons: 1. Ergos are based on my hands and finger length: grip location and palm swell forces me to shoot with the pad of my index finger and not my knuckle. I wanted to break bad habits with this stock. 2. There's a screw at the base of the receiver that did not leave me much wiggle room with the grip. I could have moved it forward 1/8", but that would act to undo point #1.
Justin Morales
You’re doing good work, user.
Luis Morgan
Isnt is easyer, cheaper and simpler to just use a pcp air rifle? You can get subsonic suppressed air guns that do like 90db for 1k and can blow your head off.
Juan Reyes
Since it's coming out of a rifle anyways, you should look into the Seismic 185gr 9mm ammo. The BC is better and the velocity should be just shy of supersonic out of a 16" barrel.
Nathaniel Roberts
except the cost of the 4000 psi compressor
Sebastian Taylor
Today I tested Remington UMC. I made one change to the rifle configuration: I swapped the soft rubber feet on the harris bipod for spikes. I'm now able to pre-load the bipod without skidding along the soft grass/soil every few shots. I've shot UMC for years and never had high expectations for the stuff. Now I have data confirming its pretty decent, but not exceptional. The ammo is cheap and is fine for general blasting or practice ammo. Always ran well in my handguns. Temps were in the mid 70s this evening. Wind was very calm. Sun was setting behind me.
I had many 5-shot groups similar to this one. Relatively narrow in width, but vertical stringing. Velocity at the muzzle was also all over the place, so I should not be surprised.
specifically looking for non-boutique ammo, I want to see accuracy on common ammo that I can order in bulk. If mass on target was important I'd use my bolt action 40SW integral or 300 BLK integral AR15, but today, we focus on subsonic 9.
Josiah Morgan
This is sick but that stock is pure AIDs
Connor Perez
Air guns are a massive fucking hassle desu
Angel Stewart
Nice thread op. I really like the idea of the novem I hope someone takes that idea and runs with it.
As a 9mm supressorfag I am interested in your results.
Julian Russell
Cool gun. But why not just slap a can on an existing PCC? Why make a custom gun? Is a bolt action 9mm really more accurate? I thought all pistol ammo was inherently not super accurate.
Jeremiah Lewis
>niggers exist >shoots raccoons fgt
Austin Cox
Not op, but the idea is chasing extreme quiet. Pccs make a substantial amout of action noise. If I had to guess I would wager that OPs gun is probably more accurate than most PCCs with subs and a can, but mostly its about getting a gun as quiet as it can get ( excepting .22 obviously). Basically a modern delisle.
Justin Gutierrez
Seems like a 300blk bolt gun would be better for this. You can get heavier projectiles, with more optimum bullet designs, through a can with a smaller aperture.
Caleb Collins
If you really want a subsonic thumper you can shoot something like .450 Bushmaster through a .45 suppressor. It can shoot a 300 grain bullet. And with an adjustable gas block you could make an AR-15 upper essentially a bolt action. It won't cycle with the block turned all the way down. And it takes seconds to convert it back to a regular AR-15 by swapping a normal upper back on. This is what Ibhave been considering. But it is hard to beat 9mm ammo price. .450 Bushmaster is not cheap. But it does feed single stack in normal AR mags.
Brayden Young
.458 SOCOM
Noah Moore
They are very similar. I consider them almost equals.
Brandon Gonzalez
.458 has bullet commonality with .45-70
Nathaniel Edwards
Truly an American weapon
Evan Bell
With your setup, you should really handload. A few ladder tests and your group will shrink like crazy. Very interesting thread, OP.
Bentley Adams
subsonic 300 blk is pretty nice out of my AR, but as mentioned action noise gets annoying and requires me to use ear plugs. The S&B ammo was like 53c per round when I bought the case. Still got a few hundred left before I re-evaluate magtech's subsonic offering.
> modern delisle they're certainly kindred spirits!
Effective range out of mine seems to be around 150Y which puts it at the edge of the woods in my yard. Perfect for me. By that distance the bullet is dropping like a rock. I tossed a few rounds on to the steel gong I have at 140Y and it took some judicious hold-over to ring it. I've plotted out a drop table to make it a little more predictable. I need to find one that plots it out in mils so I can just dial it in.
Weather looks like it will be nice this evening, I will try another box of 147gr 9mm assuming no schedule complications.
>But why not just slap a can on an existing PCC? Why make a custom gun? Is a bolt action 9mm really more accurate? I thought all pistol ammo was inherently not super accurate.
I've got an almost irrational attraction to strange and unusual guns. Some times the journey there is as rewarding as the final outcome. We'll see how the factory ammo fares. I'm hoping to find a diamond in the rough that will hold around 1" groups at 50Y.
Anthony Robinson
Tuned hand loads and practice, it ought to be able to put ten rounds through a 3/4" hole or better.
What twist rate on the barrel?
Leo Johnson
SIA told me it was a 1:10 twist barrel. I think the barrel itself is pretty good and capable when the ammo performs. Its the occasional fliers that are blowing out the group sizes.
Adrian Cruz
here we go, 4.9 mil drop to 150Y time of flight: almost half a second.
From an analytical point, of just disregard the flyers since they're anomalous. Then you can determine that, unless it's a flyer, certain ammo will probably (%chance) hit a target.
Good work. I'd highly recommend reloading. Just picked up 8 cent 124gr hst hollow points for reloading from American reloading.com. Also placing an order for 115gr 9mm at 3.5cents each shipped.
Using range brass I'm looking at 20c for essentially Federal 124gr HST, and 10c for basic 9mm target loads.
Dont care much for the stock but I love the concept. 9mm bolt action integrally suppressed makes me moist. I support your endeavors. Please report back
Kevin Wright
>Binance Post holdings
Carter Myers
MAGTECH
This ammo was significantly hotter than any other 147gr tested thus far. First shot metered 1100 ft/sec and made me double check the box to make sure I wasn't shooting 124gr. Extreme spread was also more than I wanted, ditto for std dev. Not particularly consistent. Might be good for blasting hue hue favela monkeys with a Taurus PT92 in Sao Paulo, but not good enough for back yard accuracy, at least in my opinion.
thanks for this info, OP. im interested in 9mm subs as well, mainly for quiet shooting. i bought a case of speer lawman and im underwhelmed. i havent very many variations but i preferred s&b subs just based on at the ear noise. i realize my criteria are far from scientific but ppr and quietness through my cans are my priority.
Parker White
not 100% sure, but I think I'm at around 1000ft. No crack, I'm pretty sure if I was higher up it would have. Before I moved to these flat-lands I had shot 22LR at 150 ft and a week later shot same 22LR ammo at 4000 ft, definitely had some go transsonic. I would not trust this stuff to stay quiet at high elevations.
Thomas Hall
some of the worst-case groupings, 5 shots. I had a 10-shot string that was like 3"x3". :(
Why 147? You can go lighter and still be subsonic if you don't care much about weight. I've always wanted a bolt 9mm it's stupid that there are no factory 9mm bolt guns.
Dylan Cruz
Feel like shooting over 4000 fps? Get a .204
I personally use it to make small animals explode into little bits from hundreds of yards away. The best part is there is almost zero recoil so you can watch hits in the scope. Or see exactly where you hit allowing you to correct for subsequent shots.
It's also the least load dependent cartridge I've ever used. Literally every combination I tested shot really well.
I traded mails with him recently. He has effectively retired and sold off his equipment. There are others that could make similar configurations, but I dont know of any doing so right now. Liberty and SRT would be on my short-list of outfits to contact.
Luke Rivera
Surprisingly no. It's an incredibly efficient case design. My Savage is going on 2500 rounds with zero degradation in accuracy. And I load really hot.
