What exactly is the legality of armor penetrating pistol caliber ammunition?
>legal to possess
>Illegal to sale
>illegal to manufacture
>Legal to make for personal use
I have heard all of these and I cant find a definitive answer. Obviously it is illegal to sale, however are the projectiles? Is it illegal to make your own for target practice? I have zero interest in making anything I just want to better understand the convoluted laws the ATF seems to pull out of their asses.
Other urls found in this thread:
rocketffl.com
law.cornell.edu
underwoodammo.com
underwoodammo.com
twitter.com
The question I want to ask is what physical features make it (legally) an AP bullet? I know there some superlight HP ammo that just happens to penetrate armor but isnt legally considered AP. Supposedly steel core pistol bullets are AP, while rifle cartridges are not. Also there was a fellow legally making steelcore 9mm with a plastic jacket. Was that legal just because he was making it for himself or did it have something to do with the jacket weight?
U r like the retard boomers that ask for clarification from the ATF on “firearm” braces
Delet this and just keep your mouth shut
Look it up faggot.
>hurr durr shut up
I think you can buy projectiles but you can’t make them, hence why you can find pulled bullets.
>>illegal to manufacture
Nothing in America is illegal to manufacture.
Even the one guy who built a nuclear reactor only got arrested for misdemeanor endangering the public because his reactor shielding was shit. If you can make a nuke safely it is legal to make and own, I bet most big corporations have one, they just dont talk about it because of optics.
You think Bezos or Musk doesnt have a nuke? What are you, stupid?
Wouldn't it be easier to use a sabot?
i don't know. i haven't listened to it yet but fyi the latest episode of the guns n' bitcoin podcast is about homemade AP ammo
just buy a rifle.
>For example, “green tip” 5.56 ammunition (the military/NATO variation of .223 Remington) has been exempted by the ATF even though it has a tungsten steel “armor piercing” core
>Taking advice from a site that gets this basic information wrong.
.
How could I center/balance a tungsten core in lead 9mm?
It’s probably possible to create some kind of mold that holds the tungsten in place, then you just pour molten lead around it
How, I can’t envision a good way to pull it off.
cough bump cough
They don’t make a 9mm sabot
Tungsten rod sized dimple in bottom of mold, bullet tip is down and shaped after forming.
I bet they could be 3D printed easily enough
I am going to kill the best person that implies m855 is anything but the cheapest softest potmetal. It's not ap, it's a cost saving measure.
>shoots m855 ar 15 pistol at 3a vest
>omg cop killer ammo loophole ban now no one needs AP pistol
retard.
Manufacture a machinegun and tell me it's legal. Fact is nobody here cares, but don't be spreading lies.
lathe-drill a hole in the top of the bullet sized to press-fit a tungsten rod into the bullet. Lead/steel bullet stops, tungsten keeps going.
law.cornell.edu
Use google, you fucking sperg.
Why not home brew some nice and hot .22tcm9r? You get preformed brass, you can buy tons of different molds for .224 bullets, cast them in hard lead, chuck em in a lathe, run a drill bit most of the way through them and screw a 3 or 4mm 316ss grub screw into the base. Then you get normal looking .22tcm9r you can keep on hand, and noones the wiser till you gotta slot some floppies. None of these pistol rounds sre going to punch through anything at distance, so it doesnt matter if your rounds dump energy after 50yds, if theyre smoking hot out of the barrel.
.22tcm brass save you have the trouble trying to homebrew a 3dp sabot, or fuck around with shortening/sectioning fmj's.
The ATF don't give a fuck, look at 7N6.
Interesting. I see nothing prohibiting possesion, only sale and manufacture. So, hypothetically, if I found a bunch of AP pistol ammo in my attic one day it should be legal to keep, right?
Yes, possession is legal, otherwise the ATF would've had a field day confiscating 7n6 after they decided it's armor piercing ammunition. Sale is legal too, as long as you're not importing or manufacturing it.
Sounds about right to me. They couldn't enforce an ammo ban on what was already out there but they could enforce sales and manufacturing to a degree.
I was looking into AP ammo recently and found a guy who has a kickstarter like thing and is developing hard core ammo that doesn't use any of the banned materials. Could be a honey pot, could be legit.
If you absolutely need AP stuff you can get 30.06 AP bullets and load them into .308 but as far as pistol rounds I think you're SOL unless you "find" some.
>lathe-drill a hole in the top of the bullet sized to press-fit a tungsten rod into the bullet. Lead/steel bullet stops, tungsten keeps going.
Super glue a chunk of tungsten weld rod into a hollowpoint .357 magnum cartridge. Fire from a revolver so you don't have to worry about marring a feed ramp. No lathe needed.
Federal no problem, make what you want for yourself, and in no way shape or form should any of that ammo you create that would be considered AP by federal law wind up in the possession, even constructive possession of another individual.
State laws vary wildly on this, while it may be local on a federal level you will want to check your local laws. SS190 5.7x28 is a prime example, most places it is ok is you are using it in a PS90, many places it is okay to possess it with a FN Five SeveN, however there are many jurisdictions that make it illegal to own the SS190 is you own both weapons platform as the restrict ownership of said rounds if you also have the handgun. You also have jurisdictions that will allow you to own said ammo, but you can't legally load it into the handgun platform. This is something that was deemed not AP at a federal level but considered as such on a state level and band there in. Seek advice of a firearms attorney licensed to practice in your state.
TL;DR: Handguns and AP ammo is one of the most complicated questions to answer on a state level, federal code is easy. 18 USC 921(a)(17):
Hey, quick but probably retarded question, would it be possible to do the shoestring thing with an AK, or literally any other semi-auto rifle with a similar bolt handle? I'm a babby who only owns ARs
Dive headfirst into bullet swaging autism and you'll figure it out quick. You can't do this kind of thing by casting.
A waste of time for mediocre, inconsistent results.
>3d printing tungsten
>easy enough
a sabot is the part that goes around the tungsten user.
You will never penetrate plate armor with pistols. The armies of the world only use plate armor, so do not bother prepping for that with a pistol.
Now soft armor that civilians and cops wear? Lots of things beat that. 115g 10mm underwood ammo goes through the highest grade soft armor. So too does 22tcm (but I hate how limited this round is as only one gun uses it).
I think the seam where the sabots are made from 3D printing are a weak point and they will come apart at the seam once fired.
>sabot will com apart after firing
Desu that’s kinda how sabots work
Imagine being this fucking stupid.
They don’t work that way with rifles.
>Slaghoe
What's the best carry ammo for 9mm?
What if I have to deal with bears?
Or androids in not too distant future?
Holy fuck does this actually work?
I didn't realize you could buy tungsten so fucking cheap
>9mm
underwoodammo.com
or
underwoodammo.com
>bears
10mm probably, depends on the bear
>androids
10mm cause why wouldn't you?
I asked for 9mm
That's what I have now and for the foreseeable future.
Yes.
I don't know that you wouldn't get hammer follow if you pull the 'trigger' too far though.
Underwood sells the 65grn xtreme defender in a +P round. 1800fps. Zips.
Yeah, pretty much just shut up man. Go to the fucking library. Dont be a cheap stingy lazy ass, join a private forum pay your dues and ask your questions search for your knowledge there rather than be loud like a baby and obnoxious calling undue attention to the subject and ruining a cool thing for the entire fucking country dipshit.
Yes they do dumbass
you can make them, it's just that most people don't have the necessary tools to make tungsten /tool steel cores with a jacket that won't frag the barrel at a price point that makes it worth pursuing.
Boomer is the Shareblue word of the month, isn't it?
How about you stop being a cowardly cunt newfag and fuck off?
Plates are increasingly common with US citizens
But most just have lousy carriers with skimpy coverage that doesn't cover the belly or lower back.
And so many using spall prone steel plates.
Belly coverage is an afterthought/bad joke against rifles unless you right a dual front plate setup. First carriers tend to be shitty with steel second purchase tends to fit better and have ceramics. What shitty disinformation are you going for?
Liberty civil defense +P
Read a book nigger.
Has ANYBODY done tests of copper solids against polyethylene armor?
What do you do with these? How do i learn about this shit?
but it is legal dipshit.
It’s not legal to make a machine gun.
Pewter
The laws on armor piercing rounds as i know are you can have it but it cant be sold or some shit. Doesnt matter tho just buy civil liberty defense 9mm, shit goes through 3a, thats the best ur gonna get
1. it's a barrier penetrator, it was not designed with armor in mind since plates were not in common soviet circulation.
2. It's not in a pistol cartridge which is the final decision in the ATF "sniff test" for "reasons"
3. M855 is more expensive to produce than M193.
Yes it is.
It would work better than not putting tungsten in your hollow points.
Lighter flints might work as well.
mischmetal is not for AP
mischmetal is for I
From what I understand Liberty Civil Defense penetrates soft armor quite well, and it's legal to purchase. The ATF has specific definitions for "armor piercing" that rely on composition of the ammunition, and manufacturers can make armor-defeating ammunition as long as it doesn't fall under that definition.