Shields

If you're saving hostages it is

you wouldn't do it every time you cleared a room, obviously, but war is hell. when it comes down to it, the lives of your guys are worth more than the civilians who may be caught in the crossfire. you have a responsibility to your guys, not the civilians, and at the height of the war, there wasn't a hell of a lot of accountability for that kind of shit. so yeah, if you had a good idea that there would be a combatant in that room, HE it before poking your head in. war is hell

>Russians
>not killing everything and counting the hostages as terrorists

as a disclaimer though, i'm an OEF guy. my platoon did have a bunch of OIF guys though, most of whom deployed around 06 through 07, and i'm just going off what i've heard from them. tossing an HE into a room with unknown occupants was far from the most black-hearted shit i've heard, or seen for that matter.

Exactly, they want to watch the hostages die from behind a shield.

Shut the fuck up.

Wearing full body armor, rolling around in APC's and having constant air support is stunning and brave, but as soon as you use a shield you're a coward

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Gib greentext plz

This man gets it. More satisfying to watch them die in person, as opposed to bringing down the house with an rpo and sifting through body parts afterward.

not much of a storyteller. seen dudes shot just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, near guys who knew they could get away with it due to circumstances on the ground. watched last vehicle in convoy swerve and strike a civilian on purpose and keep going. shit like that.

How many points was the civilian worth?
All jokes aside do you think we'll ever see disregard or lack of ROE again?

how stringently ROE is enforced is always inversely proportional to how hairy shit is on the ground. if you had shit like the pacific campaign again, you'd have a similar disregard for the value of human life.

Congratulations, you fell in the trap

le ebic trole

That's what you said about steel plate during the civil war.
Now you wear Kevlar diapers.

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Mostly because offense still tops defense.

Most shields can't take rifle rounds and those that do are too heavy to use with a weapon. At least, not for long.

When the shields are effective, enemies shoot for the legs or throw grenades.

*tosses a onions packet onto the beams*

mission accomplished

Scenario: Red Dawn type of Russian invasion. They have seized intel on gun owners and are coming to steal your guns and rape your dog. You must defend against the shield team, and you have no .50 bmg. How do you hold out?

Firebombs and .30-03. Keep mobile, hit them from different angles, bait them into traps and ambushes.

dumb situation. russia would probably try to rile up americans into revolting first, then russia would invade and just destroy whoevers left.

Try defeat this squad

Protip: you can't

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Stupidest argument I've heard in a long time, and that's saying something considering we're on the cesspool that is 4channel

1 frag grenade. Even it goes off 5 meters away in front of the shields, dozens of fragments will go through the gaps between shields as well as skip off the floor/walls/ceiling and into the shield bearers. If it goes off closer than 5 meters, their insides would turn into chop suey from the blast wave. If it goes off to their sides = each of them riddled with 50+ fragments head to toe. Special Weapons And Tactics are only as special as the opposing force allows them to be.

>child sized shield on top of another shield on top of shopping cart wheels
You see Valery, when enemy can see your eyes and exposed erection at same time, he lose will to fight and surrender

not how frags work

Enlighten me on how frags work.

>try get within range to throw a frag
>get shot

Try again

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is that an eokek

m203

>they are coming down a corridor and you throw from behind a corner in 0.5 seconds flat; at the worst case your hand is shot
>they are coming up the stairs, you throw it down without ever exposing yourself at all
>you throw it through any hole in walls or ceiling without exposing yourself

>or just make a tripwire booby trap with it, with that stupid rolling shield they're blind as bats, they'll trip right over it

>or just place something heavy in their path they can't push aside with their stupid shield without exposing themselves

Really makes you think, doesn't it, shield-retard? There's probably a good reason nobody uses these fucking things even thought the technology is much older than modern body armor.

Don't have to. The plastic wheels got caught in the dirt and the whole thing fell over.

>everyone owns grenades and has carefully prepared trip wires everywhere they stay

In any case the shields will give them more protection against grenades than having no shield at all. What exactly is your argument? You can kill anyone as long as you've carefully fortified your position and know exactly where/when they're coming?

That you have a defense that might work, or might not work. On the other hand, you could pack a rifle that's far lighter and handier that definitely will work.

What do you choose?

Ever read about room to room combat?
Its pretty much nades, bullets and melee with heavy emphasis on melee when comparing to any other form of modern combat

If I'm working in a team and I'm the first man through the door into an unknown room, I choose a shield. The guy behind me can have a rifle.

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>Its pretty much nades, bullets and melee with heavy emphasis on melee when comparing to any other form of modern combat
yeah i've played call of duty too. nade out!

Which makes sense if you're SWAT but not so much if you're Army.

that's not how room clearing works

MFW I know how to room clear better than shield kid and I only larpsoft...

How it feels to be retard who has never read anything?

Argument? I was just stating the facts, sorry if reality doesn't match your imagination.

just melee him bro! oh shit watch out behind you! nevermind i just 360 noscoped him heh

Excellent goalpost move: from super-shield stopping everything including grenades to ---- nobody having access to grenades! You only brought that up once I told you you're an idiot, which you are. And yes, everyone could make a grenades or claymore-type mines (those are actually much easier to make) at home with a few hundred dollars worth of 100% legal and easy to obtain chemicals and components. That makes you twice the idiot. What makes you an idiot a third time is that Russians never use these sorts of tactics
against people they actually consider a threat (Chechen insurgents). If they know there's a person sitting in a house with a rusty old AKM they shit themselves and call for the army to roll up in BTR-90 and destroy half a village with high explosive fire. During the Chechen wars, they'd just shell the village of the map. And yet, they straight up lost the First Chechen war (and had the worldwide humiliation of signing a peace treaty with a non-state actor) and you can see the result of their """"victory"""" in Second Chechen war personified in the middle of pic related

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What's the difference? You're in Fallujah, kick the door down, throw a nade in, then run in with the shield. What's the disadvantage to having a shield?All it takes is one lucky shot from a suicidal insurgent and you're a man down.

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>Nades out
>Weapon empty
>There is still bunch of bastards in room or nades come in room
>Only direction is forward
>I can fight and live or die trying
>LolCoDcheetokidxxxmotherfucker69xxx.exe activated

When did I say a shield will stop everything? Oh that's right, I didn't.

No shit anyone can make grenades. But maybe, just maybe, you'll get attacked when you're not expecting it. Or maybe you're in a small room and it's unwise to frag yourself with your own grenade.

stop fucking """""""theorycrafting"""""""" shit that people with ACTUAL FUCKING EXPERIENCE have decided against as if you've got some kind of unique perspective from your complete, holistic view of the life of the infantryman that can only be cleaned from the comfort of your fucking computer chair.

holy FUCK. get over yourself you stupid, self-righteous fucking waste of my tax dollars.

i'd save sucked your dad's sperm out of your mom's cunt if it meant preventing you from happening

Weight and bulk of the shield multiplied by the time you had to haul it on top of 40+ lbs (at a bare minimum) of your gear. Reduction in awareness. Inability to use anything other than a shitty smg held sideways. 100% guarantee of the enemy using anti-material, high explosive, or rifle-caliber machineguns against which all armor is worthless, AND using booby traps for detection of which you need extreme awareness which your retarded shield brings to nothing once you carried it up and down the stairs for half an hour (pro tip: combat doesn't stop when you need to take a little rest)

jfc calm down bro

>people with ACTUAL FUCKING EXPERIENCE
You mean office tigers and trainingfield runners?
Only way to find out if equipment is any use is to throw it in the field and russians like to do that a lot.

M252. Shake and bake.

got any more fucking expert opinions you'd like to fucking grace us with, high speed?

But you did say it right here where you said that using these shield tactics makes it impossible for me to use grenades against you. Also now you're goalpost-moving on where you said people can't own grenades

I won't even call you a retard, you're obviously just a twelve-year old posting from your phone or your dad's computer. Just go and do your homework Timmy, and stop wasting people's time. You'll grow up and your logic will hopefully improve and you'll be able to not ask retarded questions like the OP you made and figure out why yourself why nobody does what Russia says it does in its propaganda footage (but never actually does in real life, not once).

That's stating an opinion, not a fact.

>the guys kicking in doors were the ones who selected their own gear
>that gear is absolutely optimal and not procured from the lowest bidder

lmao

Learn what the difference between an opinion and a fact is you uneducated brainlet

this thread is a fucking dumpster fire.

Daily reminder Russians fucking suck at SWAT work and and every single operation of their """special""" forces ended with literally hundreds of civilian casualties and sometimes even had terrorists getting away which you would not think is possible seeing how readily Russians use chemical weapons, tanks and thermobarics against their own people (and I don't even mean peoples of the Caucasus region, including ethnic Russians, just those in mainland Russia).

>(but never actually does in real life, not once).
Type SOBR/FSB Dagestan/Chechnya into youtube, watch a few vids then report back. They have more hands on anti-terrorism experience than most western militaries.

Oh come on I love when a teenager makes a thread every once in a while. Remember when the helo fag tried to convince people he could rob a bank if only he could steal a helicopter for air support? That was beautiful.

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yeah, and we have absolutely zero agency in choosing what we want. by the way we're still rolling around in unarmored HMMV's with full IBA's, right? no MRAPS, plate carriers in sight? none of that shit, right? you know, strictly theoretically speaking, who do you think would have been the driving force in getting the big army to adopt these things? STRICTLY THEORETICALLY SPEAKING, if these people had any agency at all in their gear choice and there were a common sentiment on the ground that they needed something that REVOLUTIONIZES CLEARING ROOMS like ballistic shields -- bear with me here -- don't you think that they'd have them by now? you know, since ballistic shields are so fucking revolutionary and so much more OPTIMAL way to clear a room, which by the way, you're obviously a grizzled expert in. i bet you kicked in a hundred doors in fallujah back in your day.

Have most experience in gassing the civilians and shelling villages, you mean. And surrendering. Know what they're also pretty good at? Propaganda. Which is what made you their useful idiot. Next stage of your evolution is when you grow old enough to buy an AKM and realize it can run if you dropped it into mud once. Maybe then you'll wise up. But that's years and years away.

fuck jannies, fuck niggers, gas the kikes, but overall, gas your average fucking american teenage whiteoid NEET. then gas me after you're done because i don't want to live on this gay earth anymore

Never trust one oppinion.
I remember reading so much stuff about different weapons and gear systems that almost all have ten guys claiming its garbage and other ten praising it to heavens and official tests saying its garbage but exactly what we are looking for and that one report saying its really good but we don't need it.

Well
Lets keep this garbage fire going

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Based

>one opinion
the primary single opinion nobody should trust is yours

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I highly disagree as your oppinion is garbage
Now we only wait and see how thegeneral audience that is also garbage reacts

>they never actually use these in combat
>ok yeah maybe there are a million videos on youtube where they do but ur mom gay fuck u kid

Just shut the fuck up already

>highly disagree
continue """"""""""highly disagreeing"""""""""" retard

Nah.
You called me retard and I don't like that.
I bet you are currently smiling like tarded potato behind the screen for victory you had.

Don't be glum, chum. Most people believe retarded shit when they're twelve. It was dual-wielding and kung-fu thirty years ago, now it's this """tactical""" shit. Plus there is already a new generation of fudds all grown up - people who obsess about compressed ready and tacticool gear but can't run a hundred meters without dying from heart attack and crippling diabetees. Most people are and were retarded, historically. Yet the world moves forward with complete disregard to their insignificance, and very quickly their existence falls from memory.

Actually there are some pretty impressive shields, the size of bucklers :(

Some asshole throwing grenades at you as you enter the building. If you had a gun you'd shoot him first but since you have a shield your offensive options are limited.

Shields are also a liability in the open. You can't cover a sector and if you run into some heavy fire power your shield only weighs you down.

Finally, a large shield is awkwards to handle. The edges catch on corners and door frames and if you have to climb up something you're SOoL. The weight of the shield compounds issues as you'll tire faster and thus make mistakes more.

Air compressor pipe bomb launcher

>Tfw gonna flank fatties and Collect their supplies

What is France

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fire bombs, pipe bombs, grenades, landmines, gas, 50 BMG... should I continue?

SWAT does have some good full body shields but they're only rated for pistols and very weak rifles.

Which works fine because SWAT doesn't run into crazy motherfuckers with M14s and the skills to use them.

...I hope.

Great for SWAT, not so much for Army.

Except France’s police is like paramilitary branch

Not him but point is they don't go up against a military or paramilitary force. When you know you'll have machineguns, high explosive and anti-materiel weapons against you, a shield will take your chances of survival down, not up.

The GIGN is.

The differnce is you can't handle the truth, accept it now or it'll fuck you in the ass later, samefag.

The GIGN generally doesn't go up against military forces and when it does they don't use shields.

This, thankyou.

Those shields are used indoors only.

It's a grenade not a car bomb

If they're indoors they're in grenade throwing range.