So it seems these are the only decent options for an optics ready compact sized handgun for CCing.
>FN 509 MRD >CZ P10c >Glock G19 G5 MOS
Can someone help me break down why you'd choose one over the other?
>FN 509 MRD comes with suppressor height sights out of the box, and a decent aftermarket but the trigger quality seems to be sub par looking at reviews (can be fixed with aftermarket) >CZ P10c has the best trigger, but it doesn't have suppressor sights and it has the worst aftermarket of the three. Doesn't appear to have suppressor height sights in the aftermarket yet either without getting a new slide. >Glock G19 G5 MOS no suppressor height sights, trigger is worse than the P10c, but has the best after market of the three. Can pick up after market suppressor sights, better trigger, pretty much anything in the after market.
Are these points accurate, and have any of you had any experience with the above 3 picks using an optic? If I missed any good optic ready picks please inform me.
If I had chosen more wisely I would have waited until the P10C was optics ready. It’s inarguably the best option. There are suppresor height sights, just shop around.
Grayson Sanchez
>faster sight picture >better focus on the target >more accurate >minimal bulk Why not?
Thomas Wood
Stop watching fucking jewtube videos for gear advice. You do not need suppressor height sights ever. If you install a suppressor, just focus on your irons like you are supposed to do. No one gives a fuck about the irons clearing the suppressor.
>B-but senpai, i run an optic and Larry Viton told me to have absolute co-witness
You dont need fucking shit sights when you get a quality optic. These things do not fail during sissy CC use, there arent even fairytales of soldiers being in a gun fight and their optics pistol rds failing them. You are not going to war, you are just humping around a piece of iron, your biggest enemy is your sweat. ALso: Whatever pistol you get will be enough to dispose of the rape nigger that is trying to kill you.
>B-but user-kun, Glock sights are bad?!?
Glock sights are perfectly fine, the same goes for the trigger. What you need is training.
>Handgun buyers guide
>Buy a Glock >Buy Ammo >Buy Magazines >Buy Holster >Buy Training >Buy more ammo & training
There is literally nothing else you need, all the other shit you think you have to put on your gun is not going to make you any better, increase your chances of survival or grows your penis. Training is by far the most important aspect, yet people spend the least amount of money on it.
>so which one should I get?
The glock, because the magazines are cheap. There is probably nothing wrong with the other guns, but who really fucking uses these anyway except for youtube gun channels?
Alexander James
I have had to use a fire arm for personal defense three times. >1 during home break in >1 while in my car >1 while walking in public
During B&E event, I used a handgun because it was quicker to get to and has a light on it. I used my basic irons, which was fine. Because my target was about 10-15 feet from me and had a gun. I fired 5 shots as he tried to rise his gun up, he fired one into my floor probably as knee jerk reaction. First two pretty much dropped him, next shot hit right above his falling body, next two hit him while on the ground. Stopped moving, so kicked his gun away, called cops. A sight would not have helped in any way, especially if it had to be turned on, I barely had time to turn on light, literally turned it on as I raised my gun.
During car event, some crack came to my car during gridlock, asked for money, I rolled by my driver's side window without saying anything. crackhead then started to bash in my window with a small crowbar while yelling. all I could do was point shoot with right arm. three shots, he fell while crying out, cops called. not even enough room to use sights unless I laid over the passenger seat and blind fired through door. Public event was similar. guy comes up from behind, already as hand in back pocket (though I keep wallet in front) with knife pressing into my ribs before I knew what was what. all I had time to do was pull gun from my right side, knock his knife hand with arm as I turned, and point shot 6 times.
in my experience, which will/does differ from yours, using sights didn't/wouldn't help a whole lot. if I practiced point shootings (which I now do) back then, the B&E would have just been point shooting as I most likely would have hit him before he even attempted to raise his gun. In self defense, sights are a meme. you aren't going to be fitting people at 25+ yards. it with either be someone right next to you or pretty short distances.
Anthony Rivera
Supressor height sights are not for cowitness. They get you up and over the bottom of the optic body, into the window, especially if you're using an adapter plate. If regular height sights aren't even visible at all in the window, there's no point in having them at all.
As for optics failing, yes, happens all the fucking time. Go see how many DPPs are dying just with range use. I had a guy with a Burris fastfire conk out at 4 boxes of ammo. Slamming around on a pistol slide absolutely fucks with battery connectoes and the like.
Props for surviving an armed B&E, but assuming you aren't LEO, armed guard, or a taxi driver, it's time to move, bruv. Holy shit, three aggravated aasaults in likely less than 5 years is nuts. Also, you don't flip the RDS on. With an RMR or 507c, you set it and forget it until it's time to change the battery on your birthday.
Xavier Reyes
>Handgun buyers guide
>Buy a Glock >Buy Ammo >Buy Magazines >Buy Holster >Buy Training >Buy more ammo & training
This is accurate. I was going to the range to practice with my stock Glock weeks ahead of my CCW class and the results from the practice were self evident when targets were compared. The others even complimented me.
Zachary Collins
>stop doing things i don't do! >technology is pointless just drill forever also >unironically advocating paying for training
Isaiah Perez
Your dubs won't save you from your well deserved thrashing. It's okay to want meme optics or meme guns as long as you're honest about it but overstating the practical necessity of these things is why you're on the defensive.
Kayden Watson
>My dirt cheap optics fail.
Buy cheap, buy twice. Get a quality one. Currently I would only run the RMR type 2. In a few years I would probably add the Aimpoint Acro to that but right now it is far too early to tell and first reports about the battery life being abysmal have already surfaced.
>Hey, my name is Nick and I am self taught. Whatever the fuck that means, lel
kys. You are the retard that shows up to class with youtube skills. The idiot that has adjusted his optic to balance out his errors in trigger manipulation. Find a good school to train and I guarantee you, that you will be far better practicing afterwards.
Ryan Thomas
thing is, you seem to be implying that people who want an RMR don't already have/do the things you state. thats the problem with you anti-gear fags, you think everyone is just trying to replace experiences with cool bits.
Brayden Smith
Nice. Shooting handguns accurately is a lot more difficult than it looks.
David Lee
OP, I get the feeling this is your first pistol. Of the 3 you've listed, get the p10c, a set of supressor height sites from CZ Custom, CGW, or your local gun shop, and a RMR/Holosun.
Better yet, sit tight for the S&W CORE 2.0, put a Holosun on there, and spend even less than on the CZ in case this isn't something you'll stick with.
Aiden Edwards
Not sure I'd call the DPP dirt cheap at $400 a pop, but I get your gist. And the Acro will forever be a 1 week battery life because they went with cr1225.
Luke Lewis
I'm an anti-gear fag now? I explicitly stated that it was cool to get meme equipment as long as the buyer wasn't lying to themselves about its worth. The following is an example from this very thread about an user who is doing exactly what I am talking about: (discussing red dot for handgun) >faster sight picture >better focus on the target >more accurate >minimal bulk These benefits have little or relevance to real world experiences like this user described
Ian Gray
>The idiot that has adjusted his optic to balance out his errors in trigger manipulation. You mean the thing you can learn not to do from youtube? This isn't the 90s anymore, grandpa. The Internet is packed to the fucking brim with quality information and footage as long as you are smart enough to do your research, sift through the obvious garbage and verify what you learned in real life. You're argueably more likely to learn bad habits from your local instructor that doesn't know shit about fuck. This isn't rocket surgery. Sell your bridges to someone else.
Ayden Morris
>These benefits have little or relevance to real world experiences I can only assume all you ever practice is point shooting if you truly believe that none of those can be relevant in self-defense. It may xome down to just point shooting, it may not. (Fake) anecdotes don't change that.
Carson Butler
sounds like larp. or move out of the ghetto
Caleb Reyes
True. I own a Taurus judge, and a FN 509 tactical. Both "meme guns" according to Jow Forums but I love them both. They are cool to me, and that's why I have them.
Every dude I have shot with has wanted to dump a few 410 shells when I bust it out, and it has saved me from a water moccasin once so it works for what I need.
The 509 tactical is just a Gucci clock out of box. As soon as my suppressor is approved (arguably another meme) I'll have my own leet larper setup. It's only that and that's what I want. Fuck you, I can afford it.
Gavin Nelson
Mate, if I went by his use cases, I don't even need sights, just a front sight bead.
> target focus instead of FS focus 100% relevant of you want to make sure you're not about to ID what's in someone hand under shitty sodium parking lot street lamps
Also, fucking irons are pretty shit inside low lit apartments and houses unless you're using fat ass tritiums. That RDS is nice and visible inside and out, as long as you've got enough light to make out the target.
Easton Hughes
>A sight would not have helped in any way, especially if it had to be turned on I won't even address the rest of your drivel, this alone ought to convince anyone with half a brain that you are not to be taken seriously.
Once again I have to point out that my concern is people overstating its practical necessity. Lots of anons, probably young, come on here and get a false sense of reality because of this gearfaggotry.
Yeah, I own a Steyr AUG because it helps me signal my elitism and love of the Reich but I don't pretend that I wouldn't trust my life to an AR15 because of it.
Real life ain't Call of Duty where your sights line up automatically and aim assist snaps you on target.
Christopher Hughes
The 365XL comes with the slide milled for a red dot.
Justin Russell
>Real life ain't Call of Duty where your sights line up automatically and aim assist snaps you on target. He's not taking about aimed vs point shooting, mang.
Oliver Lopez
>Once again I have to point out that my concern is people overstating its practical necessity. Who's talking about necessities? It has objective benefits over iron sights. Will it makes a difference between life and death? Probably not, but it could is some fringe cases. >Real life ain't Call of Duty where your sights line up automatically and aim assist snaps you on target. And how is that related to your absolutely braindead notion of having a red dot on a carry gun off when carrying?
Christopher Fisher
>OP, I get the feeling this is your first pistol. Of the 3 you've listed, get the p10c, a set of supressor height sites from CZ Custom, CGW, or your local gun shop, and a RMR/Holosun. >Better yet, sit tight for the S&W CORE 2.0, put a Holosun on there, and spend even less than on the CZ in case this isn't something you'll stick with. Why do you recommend the P10c over the other two? When is the S&W CORE 2.0 expected to be out?
What makes you wish you would have waited for the P10c, and what did you get instead?
>This review is making me lean towards the P10c over the others. Not him, but all the handguns you are interested in are pretty much the same shit, just in different flavors. My advice is to handle all of them in a gun store or rent them at the range to figure out which you feel most comfortable with. My hands are not your hands. My preferred grip angle might not be yours, you may struggle with something on the gun I don't, etc.
Kevin Ross
>Why do you recommend the P10c over the other two? Glock rushed their mounting solution and too many stories of shit losing zero because not enough thread purchase. 509 is just pricier for a heavier trigger, but that's nothing that trigger time won't fix.
I assume the CORE 2.0 is coming this year because departments started getting them in July.
Bentley Morales
>but it could is some fringe cases. you can shove those right up your ass
Robert Nguyen
Don’t let paid “reviewers” sell you on junk. Look at the real story of the p10c: youtu.be/bYRYTaLGtmA It’s garbage and any designer who makes this many mistakes even if they’re now “fixed” (except they aren’t) should be abandoned
Evan Rodriguez
Needing a gun to defend yourself is a statistically unlikely scenario to begin with. I don't see a reason not to go all in and prepare for the worst case if you're going to bother in the first place. But you do you.
Isaiah Gutierrez
>It’s garbage and any designer who makes this many mistakes even if they’re now “fixed” (except they aren’t) should be abandoned I sure hope you don't shoot Glocks considering their history of actual significant fuck ups which were fixed by now. As opposed to the pretty negligible issues P-10 had that affected a very small fraction of the userbase. I honestly can't think of many guns that didn't have at least a few bugs on release that had to be ironed out.
Dylan Murphy
You forgot the Xcompact.
Connor Wood
>significant fuckups Not really. >we had more chamber support than some guns on the market, but it still didn't stop retards from loading .40 to 10mm pressure and blowing up our guns Wow, what a shocking failure. Truly scandalous.
Kayden Peterson
>uhhh you must be a glawkfag or an uhhh nusig poo in loo guy or something!!!!!!!!! ohnononononono soibois have no defense except blindly lashing out when it is revealed they bought cheap slavshit
Hunter Harris
Did you forget about Gen 4 or something? What's your handgun of choice that is and was flawless from day one then, I need that laugh.
David Torres
>plz plz plz give me something to grab onto so I can distract from the issue at hand! plz I have to get this thread away from my piece of shit pistol so OP won’t see this and buy it!!!!!! pathetic.
Henry Bennett
>gen 4 What do you think was wrong with gen 4 user?
Jaxson Carter
>the noguns recoils in fear Expected, but still made me chuckle. The initial Gen 4s were infamously bad. Heavy triggers, fucked recoil spring and shitty ejection mostly.
Jackson Bailey
>it's time to move, bruv. It's my grandparents home, I will die in this home if need be. Fuck that america idea of living in a plywood house for a decade and then moving to a newer plywood shit heap that costs half a million. These were over the course of 7 years, town has cleaned up since then since because more people owning/carrying guns. It was bad for a bit because lack of guns. >always on sounds dumb, even if the battery lasts a year. I'd be constantly worried that it would be dead the moment I need it, even if I check it daily. only red dot or electric sight in general I have ever used was some cheapo red dot my nephew had on his AR. you had to turn a nob to turn it on, figured all of them had a button or nob or something to turn it on/off.
Andrew Gonzalez
>Jow Forums told me they were bad, it must be true! Ok retard
Nathaniel Lewis
>I'd be constantly worried that it would be dead the moment I need it, even if I check it daily. You're not the first. We've had damn near this same thread before, now just with the added hiccup of slide reciprocation.
>Jow Forums told me they were bad, it must be true! Do you ever leave this website? Or your basement?
Liam Price
Based
Anthony Watson
>only red dot or electric sight in general I have ever used was some cheapo red dot my nephew had on his AR. you had to turn a nob to turn it on, figured all of them had a button or nob or something to turn it on/off. Any decent optic these days has a battery life long enough to leave the optic on for the entire duration of carrying it through the day and change the battery maybe once a year or so. >sounds dumb, even if the battery lasts a year. I'd be constantly worried that it would be dead the moment I need it, even if I check it daily. Well that's just ignorance on your part then. Get with the times, old man. Red dots are not what they used to be when first introduced.
Luis Myers
Enjoy not running a surpressor and having those sights dig into your skin faggot.
Jose Barnes
Do you? Because you seem to just be regurgitating internet arguments that have very little basis in reality.
Jackson Brown
>CCing a supressed handgun >micro red dot digging into anything Behold, a fat retard.
Robert Garcia
>having those sights dig into your skin I'm having one damned hard time imagining how you've run into this in the past. Aggressive grip texturing I can understand, but how did you poke yourself with the rear sights?
Tyler Collins
I'm looking at a M&P core pro long at the moment. About $650.
Do sf guys use optics on their pistols? Anyone have any pics if they do?
Brody Martinez
Laughably bad larp. > In self defense, sights are a meme. Literally one of the biggest arguments out there for RDS use. Neither human nature nor typical defensive encounters are conducive to staring at some metal nubs while somebody is trying to kill you. Most studies on the subject indicate that iron sight usage at all in DGUs or even force on force training is surprisingly uncommon. RDSs meaningfully address that issue by letting you stay entirely target oriented, and its backed up with real world increases in hit % and % of sight usage.
Henry Davis
It's a fat person thing, has to be.
Michael Adams
I'd be surprsied if they do. Haven't seen any but I kinda doubt they'd drop cash on sights for what is to them a backup weapon. I figure lights for secondarys would be more important than red dots for secondarys. I could be wrong tho but I'd like to see some sources at that point.
Jackson Reed
I ask because I dont use red dots on any of my pistols, they annoy me, and I always see conflicting advice from people. And if special forces and cops dont use them, I question the benefits. Is it just a cash grab from companies?
Good video on the subject: >youtube.com/watch?v=Dh9MC7O_CtA Also special forces uses them if they want to. LE doesn't use them because LE is cheap as fuck and won't spend anything more than they can get away with.
Zachary Edwards
The p10c is a great gun, fantastic trigger. I prefer the full size but I'd still choose the compact over a glock. Have you shot one?
Michael Rodriguez
509 trigger sucks ass but has factory 24rnd mags.
a Pistol with an RDS has many other benefits I think you are discounting, aside from the fact that yes, you can get accurate shots at 25+ yards unsupport and standing with a handgun using one. >much much much faster followups >much more accurate followups >vastly easier surgical shots >faster "sloppy" sight pictures >MUCH easier one handed manipulations >easier shooting in the dark
>being dead when you need it you have built in BUIS and the best part is that you can change the battery proactively at six months or even 3-4 months and be absolutely safe.
