Why did goth fashion and rock/metal music became so popular in the 90s and well into the late 2000s and when did it...

I dunno all I know is that less people should dress like this I mean shit people dress all slutty and fuck boi and making edgy just makes it worse.

Very few people dress like this nowadays. I still think it looks cool tho.

>I'm not sure what you mean friend.
Like the other user said everything's been absorbed into the monoculture. Whether that's a bad thing or good thing, it's up to you to decide but it's no longer it's own distinct thing.

>there are some things that are too autistic for anyone who isn't truly into it to penetrate it.
When shit like MtG and D&D are now popular hipster pastimes, I think you have to let go of that notion that anything is too niche.

non-whites started breeding faster

Metal was in basically hibernation in the 90s and early 2000s. It peaked in the 80s and is now coming back. I dare you to even name one metal record from the 90s

>MtG and D&D are now popular hipster pastimes

MtG maybe not that much, but D&D has been mainstream for decades. Games are a bad example, i'm talking shit like idk trains or planes autism.

I live in a non-white place and plenty of non-whites dressed like goths and listened to rock and metal (some still do).

>Subcultures are dead and have been absorbed into the popular monoculture

Not sure if anyone noticed but authenticity seems like a casualty of this.

Guessing most of you are USfags, but there was a year when Ed Sheeran was named most influential black artist of the year. A rich middle class kid who did a couple of "grime" songs is named number one black artist of the year,

Rage against the machine bruh

Dunno metal is as popular as ever, half of the 14-20 kids I see are metalheads. Or that's just where I live.

>I live in a non-white place and plenty of non-whites dressed like goths and listened to rock and metal (some still do).
Don't give him attention, he's part of the reason that chan culture is almost dead.

But "when did you grow out of metal" is a common meme for a reason. Lots of teens get into it to be different or rebellious or maybe because it's trendy, but most leave the subculture behind once they're no longer teenagers.

I'd argue you're not actually contributing to the life of a subculture if you're only part of it because of a trend. So many subcultures that seem to have shrunk are still just alive as ever, but only people actually dedicated to the subculture are left.

Most people who where into metal continue listening to it into adulthood, it's just that they don't dress like metalheads or listen exclusively to metal.

I mean, when I was a kid most of the people that were into it were either teens or young adults. But I don't see many teens into it myself.
I mean, not to say teens don't like rock anymore, most seem to enjoy it to some extent, but it's not their main music genre like it used to be.

Not all of them. I got into metal as an early teen, and most other kids I knew got really into it, too, but they dropped it completely a few years later. Those who still were into metal mellowed out, sure, but the number of "survivors" is nowhere near the amount of kids who were into metal that just totally dropped it.

Because it's no longer the trendy thing to like. I'm guessing today's teenagers latch onto some other subculture, and when they grow up most will drop it, some will still be into it but not visibly, and only a handful will be dedicated to it. It seems to be the natural development of teens' relationship with subcultures.

So you guys say subcultures still exist like they used to?

I wanted to say that they're too big to be what we used to consider sub-cultures, but metalheads for example seem like they're smaller, so...I don't know, I would say probably? They're just more intertwined, and people seem to have more real life worries that end up sipping into their sub-culture life.

I know a few hardcore metal fans; some still wear basic black clothing but most listen to metal and wear normie shit.

myself I stopped listening to most metal a while back because I realized it didn't help my mood much.

Not as they used to, due to the internet. I'd say the fads grow and fade out much faster, and ease of access allows the individual to be part of a multitude of subcultures simultaneously.

There's really no need to act or dress the "proper" way for a subculture since interactions often play out online, on isolated forums. Hardcore fandoms only really need to look and act like they belong during real life meetups, but in their everyday life they aren't as forced to embrace the lifestyle. In that way, subcultures have become more similar to board culture. Our culture doesn't have a dress code, and our way of communicating is strictly limited to online interactions. We even berate anons for "showing their power level" in real life, because our culture strictly exists online. Many subcultures seem to be taking the same path, which is why you might not see a lot of goth kids at the the mall anymore. They're at home, dressed normally because no one else is there and there's no need to visually fit in.

I know at least 1 guy who clearly stopped dressing like a metal head because he became kind of ashamed of doing so on the street, tho I didn't knew him back when he did it so I don't know exactly how or why that happened.

Probably general normie pressure...

In France you mention you listen to metal, listing solid references, at best you'll get "yeah I like AC/DC too"... at worst you'll get "ah ah a metal head! why can't you listen to normal music? like rap or somethin'"

Gutten post.

I personally think subcultures are dead. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm sure most subcultures grew out of places organically.

With the internet, especially social media, and corporations who can easily manipulate and create trends, this is no longer possible.

>born in the late 90s
people who were born in the late 90's are over 18
Sometimes I forget that I'm old

It's crazy to think that you can go from San Francisco to Paris to San Paulo to Tokyo and people are listening to similar shit, watching similar shit and overall consuming the same content.

Has nostalgia become numb for you as well?

Nice trips by the way.

>like rap or somethin
Rap is so ridiculously commercialized.

There are no more kids born in the 20th century, none at all. Next year everybody born before the year 2000 will be 20 or older.

And nice trips btw.

m8 I think you're a bit confused he's a pasty white ginger like wtf

>There are no more kids born in the 20th century
Not going to stop those bastards commenting on youtube videos of cheesy 90s songs talking about how they were born in the wrong decade.

>I think you're a bit confused he's a pasty white ginger like wtf

I'm not joking, I think it was 2014 when he got that award.
Most Influential Black and Urban Artist.

i would say culture vultures became a thing

C'est pas le metal qu'est genant en France mais plus les gens qui ecoute qui sont le edgy type guy.

Seriously metalfag stop dressing like emofag.

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my first trips in the 7 years I've been here, thank you, guys. I wouldn't have even noticed. I guess based on probability I must be a big time lurker.

>Has nostalgia become numb for you as well?
I can recall enjoying my high school social circle and having the same people in every class was very comfy. I also remember enjoying Jow Forums more when /b/ was more like /tg/ & Jow Forums where it was more polls, surveys, and political current events with a side of softcore porn; now you may as well rename /b/ to /sc/ (softcore), I haven't gone there in like 4 years. My problem with Jow Forums is they made each board so specialized that i feel like board culture is inorganic and more of a parody of itself or dying in the case of /tg/ last I checked. If you want to experience Jow Forums's creativity now you have to search around.
I enjoyed the femanon's bedroom goodboy points drawings from a year or so ago on r9k. I also enjoyed the anti-pussy lips which evolved into roastie threads a while ago. And, I enjoy the Jow Forums pink wojak memes. But, I don't visit Jow Forums much because of the aforementioned qualms.

It might be different in France, but here, dressing a certain way does not equate acting a certain way. I know some dudes who only dress in the edgiest metal outfits, but are really the chillest bros.

>I can recall enjoying my high school social circle and having the same people in every class was very comfy
Lucky bastard.

I would say emofags evolved from metalfags, also it's not like the emo trend didn't reach normie-tier status probably not even a whole decade ago.

My school segregated the students of a certain group based on their grades, so the kids in the GT (gifted and talented) category always had classes together. I think there were students that were considered advanced who were sometimes placed in the GT classes based on seat availability and then the bulk of the students were "standard" and were churned around much more, I believe.
Maybe standard kids are more well adjusted. I never talk to my schoolfriends probably because I never needed to develop friendship outside of school based on activities (b/c I already had a happy social life from school) so trying to figure out how to "hang out" now when I'm in my mid twenties is weird and logistically messy

It was the last particularly white subculture before whites became a minority and now everything is just niggers and spics and this is america etc.

See Rock and metal were huge among spics too, but it faded out at among the same rate it did in the states.

>gifted and talented
Ukfag or do they use the name outside of UK as well?

They use it in Maryland, USA. I'm pretty sure U.S. schools are nationalized so I would imagine it is common all over USA.

The state didn't kill subcultures, the internet did.

You can blame the internet, but I feel like the internet alleviated a pressure on the youth that would have been there regardless. The pressure being the price of housing/rent being more than a high school graduate can afford.
Spaces don't really exist for youths to congregate so they do their recreation online.
If there was something more to downtown then normie nightclubs & bars then I might have a reason to go down there.

There have never been spaces for youth to congregate, youths have always created their own spaces for themselves out of nothing, that's literally what subculture is, and it's dead because they no longer have to do that because they just sit online all day.

I'd say corporations' ability to commodify literally every aspect of a subculture + social media killed subcultures.

What about arcades and go karts and bowling alleys? What about hanging out in places around the city or for city events?

>the price of housing/rent being more than a high school graduate can afford.

Move away from the coasts.

>Spaces don't really exist for youths to congregate so they do their recreation online. If there was something more to downtown then normie nightclubs & bars then I might have a reason to go down there.

I can kinda agree to that, but the only hobby that requires physical presence is tabletop gaming.
Everything else can be done online from home, and people prefer it that way, if that wasn't so then you would see more variety of places to host different types of people.

Arcades were huge in the 80s and 90s, and in the 2000s ciber-cafes were social hotsposts because not everybody had a computer on their home, so kids and teens would gather there to play Counter Strike or Quake.

Music concerts are still a thing, but people rather listen to their music on spotify or whatever nowadays.

I think cringe culture killed off subcultures and so did kiwi farms. Everyone is scared of being called cringe. Why do they care what a random stranger online says?

it's pretty interesting how gen z doesn't seem to have any of these types of subcultures. they all dress exactly the same. i guess that's what happens when you're a braindead social media generation

>I think cringe culture killed off subcultures and so did kiwi farms. Everyone is scared of being called cringe.

Definitely a factor on why you don't see people dressed in full metalhead attire often anymore.

Commodifying is late-stage subculture and a sign that it's already dead. Normally something else would take it's place or it would adapt in such a way as to subvert the commodification. That doesn't happen anymore, they were all just allowed to die because the only thing that took their place was the internet.
It went like this
>large variety of distinct and vibrant subcultures
>monosubculture (internet)
>monoculture (internet merges with daily life via smart phones)

The arcades now are 3DGames and games you have to move on like go karts or skis or snowboards or games where you're in a car like structure and you shoot as it moves. They're still packed.

I gotta admit that I did not experience the Arcade golden age, so I can't speak as to how much or less packed they are now than they were before. Ciber cafes definitely died out quite a lot tho.

My question is why are they scared? The critics are some random internet people that would be too scared to say it to your face. Knowing my critics are a bunch of random internet people depersonalized them to me.

>Everyone is scared of being called cringe
I don't know, if anything cringe has sort of increased as people compete with each other to out cringe each other to get more views.

Because people use Starbucks as their new cyber cafe hangout. They all bring their laptops and stay for hours.

I think it's hard for many to separate internet strangers opinions from real life people opinions.
If you expend most of your time online you might the idea that the political situation in the US is tense when it really isn't in reality.
Similarly, if you see a bunch of strangers making fun of someone, you might end up believing that people IRL will also be judging you if you do that.

Also group mentality being a thing, if you see people making fun of someone, you might join in, and start to see it as being cringy too. I think that happened to a lot of metalheads, they saw other retarded metalheads acting like retards and they were pushed away from the culture.

There used to be a massive disparity in graphics back then with consoles and arcade games.

Idk but I think a lot of the people that do that fashion shit are trying way too hard.

I like to wear black and grow my hair out but in way more of a lazy way. I don't wear ridiculous boots and belts and shit because I'm not trying to be fashionable. I'm just lazy and like black clothes and having fucked up hair.

People want to party and have fun at concerts. Nobody wants to listen to a drummer play a 30 minute drum solo anymore. I think that shit was boring in the 70s too but back then that was all they got.

Lifestyles based around fashion and hairdying are pretty retarded anyway. Your hair should grow out naturally the way it's supposed to and you shouldn't dress exclusively in a certain set of colors because you aren't really being yourself. You're presenting an image, but not what you actually feel and are.

Marilyn Manson isn't popular anymore

man i miss goth chicks
those are my fucking favorite

I'm kind of backlashing against cringe culture because it's too over used. You can't do anything interesting without being called cringe. None of these cringe culture people have any better alternatives that aren't boring so I ignore it.

I spent lots of time online before social media. Why are internet people more depersonalized to me unless I've spent at least months or more talking to them?

Lets consider music. What happened to the basement parties with live music. I recall listening some Nirvana live shows from there basement days and it seemed pretty cool.
In your local area, how many basements/whatever you can think of where you could play a loud rock show and have the cops not come.
Now Aberdeen Washington was rural so it was probably much easier, but who lives in rural areas nowadays but rich old people?
To me it seems like kids can't catch a break now because there are essentially no unoccupied spaces preferably in walking distance.
I"ve seen pictures of MGMT doing a college partys live music so it still occurs, but if most the youth scene is in colleges then you can imagine its not exactly the same as walking downtown to a bar thats more music than beer.

Why is trying hard bad? People with obsessive special interests are now hated in subcultures even though it used to be a bonus.

But kids have more unoccupied spaces. Some malls are dead

>Lifestyles based around fashion and hairdying are pretty retarded anyway. Your hair should grow out naturally the way it's supposed to and you shouldn't dress exclusively in a certain set of colors because you aren't really being yourself.
>because you aren't really being yourself.

I don't take too much care of my hair, I don't even wear much black, but why isn't it being myself if I think it's cool looking? I actually think leather boots and bracelets are cool looking, as a teen I was concerned people would fun of me, or that I was too ugly to look good on them. Now as an adult I'm seriously considering at least getting some bracelets desu. If anything I would not be myself because I avoid it in fear of being shamed.

>People with obsessive special interests are now hated in subcultures even though it used to be a bonus.
Social media. That one idiot can embarrass the entire subculture because it's uploaded forever on the internet.

There's no subcultures now because everything's merged and controlled for maximum profit.

And yet it hasn't stopped the schizos from continuing to do their thing. I personally think it's embarrassing how so called "normal people" bend backwards to defend something they like nowadays.

hmm i wonder who can possibly be behind this profit scheme hmmm

Please don't start going off into Jow Forums territory, I'm fine with leaving it as faceless corporations responsible to for stifling creativity and uniqueness.

It's lame because punk and similar subgenres are against social norms, but they try too hard to make it look good which defeats the whole point.

Another thing to consider is that kids today are told that if they don't go to college they will basically die in the gutter unable to recieve employment above minimum wage so kids and young adults stay in school longer and are much more high-strung in general because of this.
I was just thinking of this. The malls in my area have taken on low rent dinky little shops and some areas are unoccupied, but I feel like these kinds of corporate properties would not accept the liability of a live show, considering how chaotic they can be.
Supposedly it is difficult to get licenses for alcohol and live music in the USA now probably because of some big business bullshit.

supposedly the people who owned the punk shops and made the punk clothes that the kids bought were Jews. Specifically the shop that the sex pistols and whoever else used to steal clothes from.

>I personally think it's embarrassing how so called "normal people" bend backwards to defend something they like nowadays.
What do you mean?

Someone had to make those clothes tho, a certain amount of business around a sub-culture is ok, the problem is where you draw the line.

Here in France people tend to assume an awful lot based solely on your clothing and how close to the baseline norm you are or not...

A few of the metalheads I know dress the metalhead part but when you get to know them they are closer to hippies than actual bleeding edge emo ragers...

>A few of the metalheads I know dress the metalhead part but when you get to know them they are closer to hippies than actual bleeding edge emo ragers...

That's a lot of them. I too have noticed that many of the few remaining people that go all the way with the metalhead attire are very soft hippie type people. The type that hangs out with purple short hair tumblerinas and such.

Another thing to consider:
Lets say you don't like the movies that are coming out
You want to watch the best movies of the past and maybe also some undergound cult classic movies
So you figure you will get a digital projector and rent a spot to start showing some movies
Not so fast, you need to get a liscense for each film and they don't even have to approve you. I believe each license costs a few grand.
So you'll say: Well, if you don't charge you don't need a license.
But, you basically can't attract the public to make a cool vintage film sub-culture without advertising to the public.
If you start a movie "club" and advertise as such I believe you need to be licensed for each film.
So why pay out the ass for a room big enough for a pleasurable screening when you can just watch movies by yourself on the internet.
I feel like all desire for subculture/social scene dies because of these sorts of hurdles.

subcultures were fringe movements for people who were the outliers of society and its norms. whereas now theres a sort inverse relationship, the more traditionally fringe a subculture is, the more hyper "inclusive" and sjw'ery the people in it are. even the people from the original time the subculture spawned are obsessed with applying the sjw doublespeak.
it's these subcultures at the periphery of society that then feed back the doublespeak to the central masses. it's like 1984 but its people singing in the back allies pulling the strings of the self-serving central governments.

Not to mention all the hipsters that would be drawn like moths to a flame.

The US is pretty crazy with copyright protection. This doesn't happen in other countries thankfully.

I think that you could just depend on worth of mouth tho. With social media you can do advertising without it looking like advertising, right? Just make a facebook group or something and invite people over as if they were just your friends.

Are they the ones who listen to Cream, Deep Purple, and the Doors? The late 60s/early 70s metal?

There's nothing really wrong with being inclusive.

dunno man, the metalheads/emos/goths I know are quite open.

I don't want to derail the thread as i'm sure keeping this conversation up will.
But yes, there is nothing wrong with being inclusive, but we all know what the problem with these people actually is.

they listen to some of the edgiest shit ever desu, yet somehow manage to not blow up into a shitstorm of rage, tears etc... they just are chillax about it all.

At an outdoor mall even n my area people will do concerts almost everyday all summer but the problem is you can dance but not really get rowdy. There's a wine place nearby. Not sure if you can get alcohol to go there and drink it at the concert.

In the US, if you word of mouth advertise, you are opening it up to the "public" and you need a license. So in USA, you need to only invite people in person and they need to keep their mouths shut or you will get fucked.
There also aren't many suitable buildings for a screening and if you try to do a drive-n style thing then you will be fucked because it is in "public", someone walking by could see.
So a huge hurdle is how do I get this screening license, but then you think "Fuck Hollywood, I'll just pirate and watch alone."

Feel it too, here in France, I've been playing in a rock band for a little while, doing mostly covers, and you can see, when you try to get an audience involved, that they are quite numb and unreceptive to whatever you're giving them, unless it's some big beat simplistic pattern. I feel like they need instant gratification from whatever they are looking at, and mind you, we're talking about people in their twenties. I don't if everyone is too ashamed to be seen enjoying what they're seeing if it doesn't belong to the mainstream, or if they are just simply formatted to what the mainstream has been feeding them their whole lives. Pretty sad if you ask me.