I'm writing my own sticky, and I just finished writing up on the Starting Strength program and the many questions and misinformation about it. I'm going to start posting it, and I'd appreciate any comments on where I might be misinformed, where it reads poorly, or just what else I can add to this portion of the sticky I'm trying to write. I'm hoping one day to write a sticky good enough that the mods make it the new sticky here on Jow Forums. Dumb dreams aside, here I go.
I'm writing my own sticky...
Ryder Long
William Cooper
Starting Strength Barbell Routine: A Brief Summary
This is a brief summary of the Starting Strength routine by Mark Rippetoe. Even after reading this, you should still buy the Starting Strength book, as it is an invaluable wealth of knowledge on the mechanics of the big four lifts. If you follow this routine to the letter, get plenty of sleep each night, and eat plenty of high protein and nutritious (eat your god damn leafy green vegetables) food, you will make a great strength and size gains. Eating at a caloric deficit to lose weight while also doing SS may impact your strength gains, to what degree is too difficult to just make a blanket statement. Cardio does not kill your gains, but you may need to eat a little bit more food to compensate for your lost calories if your goal is optimal amount of strength and mass gain. Cardio is essential for your health, happiness, and physical endurance, and it exercises your muscle important muscle; your heart. You don’t want to be the buff guy who gets winded by a flight of stairs, is out of breath after three minutes of sex, or dies in a sauna.
Phase One: 2-4+ Weeks
You will be alternating day A and B each week:
Week 1: AxBxAxx
Week 2: BxAxBxx
A
Squat 3x5
OHP 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
B
Squat 3x5
Bench Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
You will be adding 5lbs to your squat, bench, and press every successful workout and 10 lbs to your deadlift. If you fail a set, then repeat that weight the next time you perform that lift. Deload an exercise’s weight by 10% if you fail to get 3x5/1x5 three times in a row on the same weight, either because you can’t keep proper form or you fail to lift the weights. You will continue this until you fail your deadlift three times in a row, which should occur roughly 2-4 weeks after starting Phase One. You will then deload the deadlift by 10%, lower it’s weight progression to 5 lbs increases like the others, and switch to Phase Two.
Josiah Williams
what makes you qualified to write a sticky? please respond with a picture of your physique, or maybe videos of your lifts
Gavin Mitchell
Phase Two: 1-2+ Months
A
Squat 3x5
OHP 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
B
Squat 3x5
Bench Press 3x5
Power Clean 5x3
You will now do power cleans on day B instead of deadlifts. Practice your power clean form with light weights on the bar first until it looks fairly smooth before adding weight. There are dozens of videos out there, start watching, film yourself practicing, and post the video asking for form checks. If you have deloaded twice on the same weight for OHP or bench press, then consider using microplates (1.25 lbs plates) for 2.5 increases each workout for these upper body lifts. Once your deadlift requires deloading again, which should occur roughly 1-2 months after starting Phase Two, it’s time to switch to Phase Three.
Samuel Edwards
Phase Three: 2-3+ Months
A
Squat 3x5
OHP 3x5
Deadlift 1x5 / Power Clean 5x3
B
Squat 3x5
Bench Press 3x5
Chin-Ups 3x10
Back Extensions 3x10
Every day A you will be alternating deadlifts and power cleans, while on day B you will be doing chin-ups (hands facing you) and back extensions if the equipment for back extensions is available to you. This will mean every four weeks you will have a week without deadlifts. If you can’t complete 3x10 of chin-ups or back extensions, then just do as many as you can each set until you can. If you can’t do chin-ups at all and you are not considered obese on the BMI scale, do chin-up negatives or band assisted chin-ups instead. If you can’t do chin-ups at all and you are considered obese on the BMI scale, then do 3x10 lat pulldowns until you bring your weight down to at least overweight on the BMI scale. If you can do 3x10 chin-ups with good form, start doing them at 3x5 with added weights. If you can do 3x10 back extensions with good form, start doing them weighted. Once you feel you have exhausted as much linear progression as you can from Phase 3, consider this advanced novice program from Practical Programming to help squeeze whatever novice gains you have left.
Caleb Powell
Advanced Novice: 1-2+ Months
Monday
Squat 3x5
Bench/OHP 3x5
Chin-Ups 3x10
Back Extensions 3x10
Wednesday
Light Squat 3x5
OHP/Bench 3x5
Deadlift 1x5 / Power Clean 5x3
Friday
Squat 3x5
Bench/OHP 3x5
Pull-Ups 3x10
Glute-Ham Raises 3x10
You will be going from an A/B scheduling to a three day scheduling, with deadlifts and power cleans only being done once a week and alternating on Wednesdays. You will also be alternating your OHP and bench press each week as indicated above. Light squats are done at 70-80% of Monday’s squat weight to rest your legs from squats and conserve energy for your deadlift / power cleans. Alternatively, you can do front squats instead of light squats on Wednesday. On Fridays you will be doing pull-ups and glute-ham raises (if a glute-ham bench is available to you), with a similar progression to your chin-ups and back extensions.
Once you feel you have squeezed all the strength you can from the main four exercises, it’s time for intermediate programs. Consider Texas Method if you want to continue progressing in strength, or consider a PPL routine if you’re just looking for hypertrophy gains next. Regardless, you are an intermediate now (if you did this program to the letter, got plenty of sleep, and ate enough food) and you should know enough to determine if an intermediate program is right for you.
Landon Lewis
>Should I warm-up before my workout? How do I warm-up?
Yes, warming-up your muscles for compound exercises like squats and deadlifts are crucial for not only practicing form before your main sets, but also helping you prevent injuries. A typical barbell compound warm-up will look like this:
>1x10 empty bar
>1x5 25% of main set
>1x3 50% of main set
>1x2 75% of main set
>3x5 main set weight
If you calculate a warm-up percentage and it’s less than 50 lbs, skip it. For example, if I’m benching 135 lbs on my main 3x5 set, 25% of that is about 34 lbs, which is less than the bar weighs, so skip it and just do the 50% weight (67.5 lbs). During you warm-ups, focus on your body’s weak points that day and correct any form imbalances you notice. Treat it like you would a main set; don’t speed through them because you feel silly, embarrassed, or bored. No need to rest between warm-up sets, the time you spend adding the weights for the next warm-up set will suffice. For exercises like deadlifts and power cleans that can’t be done without weights on the bar, consider doing romanian deadlifts and hang power cleans respectively for your 1x10 empty bar warm-ups instead.
>Should I rest between sets? How long should I rest?
Yes, give your body time to recover from each set so it does not impact your next set. A good example of how long to rest would be to rest 2 minutes after finishing a set if it felt easy, 3 minutes if it felt difficult, and 5 minutes if you failed to get all the reps on the set. If you’re a beginner you shouldn’t need much longer than that to recover.
Owen Cruz
>Can I substitute/add an exercise in SS?
Short answer is no, you shouldn’t. Every exercise is there for a reason. If you are unable to do them because you lack the equipment, you could use alternatives like leg press and dumbbell deadlifts, but you will not gain nearly the same results and you should work towards getting into a gym that has the necessary equipment ASAP. If you are unable due to physical limitations like a back injury, then you should be working with your doctor/physical trainer to strengthen those weaknesses and do what you are still able to do. If you are too scared to do an exercise because you fear injury, you shouldn’t be, as not only is the injury rate of barbell training quite low, you should be reading about the exercises and learning good form. Aside from faulty equipment, injuries in lifting are always 100% your fault, as you cannot get injured with any proper exercise if you are lifting with good form, lifting with an appropriate weight, and are taking safety measures like benching with a spotter, squatting with safeties, etc. Challenge yourself to embrace something new and learn how to overcome perceived difficulty, as the satisfaction of overcoming challenges is unlike any.
As for adding additional exercises after your main lifts, if you wish to add an ab exercise like planks or cable crunches to help supplement strengthening your core then you can, same with any arm work you might desire like bicep curls and dips, no one is going to police you or care except sad losers of Jow Forums. WITH THAT SAID, adding these are not necessary towards getting bigger or stronger, they can potentially interfere with recovery from workout fatigue, and are often rooted in vanity rather than carefully chosen supplemental exercises, but if they aren’t interfering with your recovery then go right ahead. You have been warned.
>My gym doesn’t have bumper plates for my Power Cleans.
youtube.com
Julian Hernandez
>SS makes you fat
SS does not make you fat, poorly controlled nutrition makes you fat. While the Starting Strength book is fantastic for learning how to perform the main exercises of any serious workout routine, it has tremendously awful nutritional information. The author is only concerned with getting the best results for strength, and advises you eat as much as you can. For the drastically skinny and underweight he recommends consuming a gallon of milk throughout the day as easy calories to gain weight. Most people are not interested in pure strength, if you are then have at it, but most people will want to follow the nutrition guidelines later in the sticky. If you ignore the terrible nutritional advice in SS and maintain a healthy and closely followed diet, doing SS will NOT make you fat, because exercise can’t make you fat, only excess food can do that.
>SS has too few exercises
You don’t need too many exercises as a novice, it is intermediates and above that need the extra work, as it is harder for them stimulate constant muscle growth with only minimal work. Novices can progress just fine doing 5 or 6 basic lifts that hit every muscle group as long as they can add weight to the bar. Assistance exercises are to provide greater volume, so why can't a novice get greater volume by repeating a movement more often? They need to become proficient at these basic movements before concerning themselves with assistance lifts, which will not actually contribute anything to the strength adaptation except for excess fatigue early on. Keeping it simple and progressing linearly is better than overcomplicating it. Go back and see “substitute/add an exercise” if you insist on adding bicep curls or crunches at the end of your workout anyways.
Nicholas Cox
>SS is pure legs, I don’t want to be t-rex mode, not enough upper body
Here is one average week of SS in each phase. The main exercises are 3 upper body exercises, (Press, Bench, Chins,) 1 lower body exercise, (Squat) and 2 full body exercises (Deadlift, Power Clean).
Phase 1
Squat 3x5=15
Overhead Press/Bench Press 3x5=15
Deadlift 1x5=5
15 lower, 15 upper, 5 full-body
Squat 3x5=15
Bench Press/Overhead Press 3x5=15
Deadlift 1x5=5
15 lower, 15 upper, 5 full-body
Squat 3x5=15
Overhead Press/Bench Press 3x5=15
Deadlift 1x5=5
15 lower, 15 upper, 5 full-body
Weekly totals: 45 lower, 45 upper, 15 full
Phase 2
Squat 3x5=15
Overhead Press/Bench Press 3x5=15
Deadlift 1x5=5 / Power Clean 5x3=15
15 lower, 15 upper, 5-15 full-body
Squat 3x5=15
Bench Press/Overhead Press 3x5=15
Power Clean 5x3=15 / Deadlift 1x5=5
15 lower, 15 upper, 5-15 full-body
Squat 3x5=15
Overhead Press/Bench Press 3x5=15
Deadlift 1x5=5 / Power Clean 5x3=15
15 lower, 15 upper, 5-15 full-body
Weekly totals: 45 lower, 45 upper, 25-35 full
Phase 3
Squat 3x5=15
Overhead Press 3x5=15
Deadlift 1x5=5
15 lower, 15 upper, 5 full-body
Squat 3x5=15
Bench Press 3x5=15
Chin-Ups 3x10=30
Back Extensions 3x10=30
15 lower, 75 upper
Squat 3x5=15
Overhead Press 3x5=15
Power Clean 5x3=15
15 lower, 15 upper, 15 full-body
Weekly totals: 45 lower, 105 upper, 20 full
Throughout the three phases, you are doing equal amounts of upper and lower body exercises in addition to full body exercises, up until phase three where you are doing MORE upper body than lower. The fears of entering t-rex mode based in the face value look at there being squats every workout day and anecdotal cherry-picked evidence of people who did the routine, but they ate poorly while doing it, resulting in flabby bodies with strong legs that have caused people to scream and scream about SS being pure legs. Again, see adding additional exercises if you insist on adding bicep curls or crunches at the end of your workout anyways.
Jace Morales
>Is Starting Strength better than StrongLifts 5x5 or Greyskull LP?
For the purpose of strength training, yes. Starting Strength is more balanced and better programmed than StrongLifts 5x5 or Greyskull LP for gaining strength.
SS allows for greater intensity of the sets and longer linear progression when doing 3 sets instead of 5 sets like SL. GSLP contains some minimal hypertrophy training that offsets the strength training, making it a master of none. SS is programmed to give you the most linear strength gains as a novice in the shortest period of time. SS has a comprehensive book, coaches with rigorous coaching certifications, and an online community to assist you in your training. SL and GSLP have unnecessary volume for a novice that translates into superfluous fatigue.
If you still want to do SL or GSLP, go ahead, they are perfectly serviceable routines that will make you stronger and healthier, you don’t need to do the most optimal routine if you don’t want to, but if you want the most optimized program for getting stronger, then do SS. The most popular GSLP variant is in the attached picture, and here’s a link to SL if you want it. stronglifts.com
Ian Moore
Not a damn thing on god's green earth apart from 4 years in the gym and making just about every fitness mistake in the book, and learning from them. If you believe I am underqualified, then you should write a better sticky for us.
Ayden Gomez
upload a document for download or some shhit would be handy to save on my hdd
Isaiah Carter
docs.google.com
Here, a google doc is the best I can give. I'm mostly just typing this out in Word for now.
Blake Fisher
i suppose you're already more qualified than the original author lol
Alexander Flores
Nope, but I'm going to try anyway and see where it takes me. I'm hoping to learn some new things too while writing this thing.
Angel Martinez
keep it up ive bookmarked the docs.
Dominic Cox
Thanks man, I will.
Jackson Campbell
im serious btw, im on my second day of lifting and reading through this laid everything out for me nicely. Good job.
Joshua Jones
Hey user, I thought you were gonna be autistic and retarded but your info is on point, loads of people think SS is garbage because retarded Jow Forums made it a meme. Keep fighting the good fighting, love you.
Asher James
I think the biggest issue with the "beginner program mania" is the fact that people don't understand the differences and relationships between
size,skill,strength, and fatigue
size is a function of (hard/high effort) workout volume
strength is how much torque you can produce at a joint. This is a function of size
skill is how good you are at a lift. this can increase max weight, but not strength, and is generated by clean reps. skill is rep range and movement specific
fatigue is generated in the same way as size, and hides strength. at high fatigues, you will be able to lift less, but your body will try to adapt by growing.
What most beginner programs do is increase skill and try to minimize fatigue. This allows one to "tap into" the size/strength they already have, but is not great at actually building size/strength
That's great for mr. athlete who needs to learn how to squat correctly, not so great for mr. programmer who has no muscle nor any athletic ability. the latter person just needs to get used to moving their body through space and working their muscles.
Caleb Kelly
starting strength is a great way to ruin your knees, shoulders and back for life in a very short amount of time! :D
Jayden Rivera
The new sticky should just be a picture of Zyzz and Rich
Aaron Carter
You are correct, if you perform the lifts with poor form you will get hurt, however, if you take the time to read the book and perform the lifts correctly, you will only strengthen the areas. >t. knee tendontis from squatting improperly, fixed by squatting properly.
Ryder Murphy
loser
Kayden Barnes
Thanks bud
Jordan Stewart
This is a good topic to write about later, I will make a section for it to come back to in my sticky. For now all I wanted to achieve was clarifying a lot of misinformation about SS, but talking about beginner programs as a whole will be an excellent way to start off the lifting section before discussing particular beginner routines.
Jayden Murphy
Personally, I think that most beginner programs lack generallity. Someone with a lifetime of sitting on the couch doesn't need to maximize weight lifted, they need to work on
size
strength
cardiovascular ability
general preparedness
work capacity
Only addressing max strength lifted sets someone up to fail in the future
in addition, the programs don't teach people to push effectively. It's a lot easier to get someone to do bicep curls to failure to get an idea of what failure vs discomfort is than it is to get someone who is terrified of the bar to work past when he thinks he will fail.
Samuel Murphy
I'm happy to have helped at least one person today.
I love you too user.
Jason Gutierrez
Likewise.
Joshua Myers
What's your view on SS giving you a weird body and also not allowing sufficient time to build up joints (like a higher rep program advertises) ?
Connor Jones
See I haven't heard about the joint issue, care elaborate or give an example of a program that discusses this?
Sebastian Miller
You will never be better than Harsh
Never
Oliver Kelly
Harsh doesn't even include Intermittent Fasting and falls for the idiot meme of fasting = starvation
dude is an idiot and killing one of the biggest tools for weight loss and cutting in the book
Sebastian Jenkins
Super common issue I’ve never cleared up myself is weight lifting while on a cut. If you need to cut and you’re a beginner to weightlifting, is Starting Strength the right program?
Sebastian Hernandez
Being on a cut will effect you on any program
Nathaniel Reyes
Something you are still missing out on while having addressed it, is instructing noobs that see SS on how to properly get into conditioning & cardio. You gotta make it bold and obvious what they need to train with in this guide you are writing. Like using HIIT one day a week, gradually introducing C25K and proper core training that works with the compound exercises (planks, hanging leg raises, windmills, deadbugs). And probably the Frequency Method from GSLP for push-ups/pullups/pretty much any calisthenic exercise. This shit is extremely important for beginner lifters to get drilled into their heads and utilize as often as lifting things up and putting them down.
I've read SS and trained with it years back, still think it's a shit LP for noobs and nothing will ever change that. But since/fit/ has a strange fixation for this meme program despite countless seasoned veterans and those who made it in the fitness community shunning it down for large reasons (shit volume, drills toxic discipline of needing to chase PR's, using da max weight each workout, +5lbs each workout doesn't properly set noobs up for intermediate and beyond routine structure, etc), at least properly instruct the kids that browse this site who want to improve their health and lifestyle with what I mentioned. Or just recommend them Phrak's GSLP since it's an objectively much better beginner LP. That aside, Rippetoe knows his shit about form and Texas Method is an excellent intermediate program.
Eli Ramirez
I think this will help.
Ryder Allen
I meant this one, but that other one isn't bad either.
Easton Morgan
>SS
Kayden Fisher
You are absolutely right about emphasizing the importance of cardio and core strength training, and I do plan on discussing their importance as I write more, but for now, this is just putting some clarification on a lot of the misunderstandings about SS as a program, as well as trying to get some criticism on my writing style and how well/poorly it explains the concepts.
While I disagree that SS is a bad program, I do want to emphasize as I write that there is no one program that fit's everyone goal, and SS is certainly not for everyone if your goal is raw strength. I want to write on multiple beginner programs and work against the SS+GOMAD only for real gains meme.
Sebastian Campbell
I will definitely be writing on a lot of these beginner and intermediate programs later on, but thank you for providing a nice compilation for reference. These will be handy.
Brandon Richardson
Where will this be linked to keep up with ?
Leo Lee
Kinda hard to go against that grain when Rippetoe actively advocates otherwise. You've still yet to actually explain why it's a good program beyond
>"trust me i ben liftin 4 yrs lol"
Still no scientific evidence backing your argument, no logic, no analysis in the sense of how it treats the human condition and muscular growth. There's more to this shit and your end result will wind up training noobs who spin their tires in the gym, hit a plateau in their first two months, and by the end of the whole show they'll have absolutely no clue how to go about intermediate programming or doing anything for themselves. You need to seriously reevaluate just what the fuck you're on about with SS, because your focus is on the wrong things. These are things that are deeply ingrained and extremely problematic with SS, yet you are either ignoring them for the sake of getting Jow Forums's meme program back in the mainstream or you just don't care. And at this rate the fitness community will still rightfully reject SS because the program's flaws are bullshit as well as ICF & SL.
Julian Walker
SL is superior. Better volume > everything, even if your strength evolves slower.
Aesthetics are the goal for most people.
Daniel Sanchez
recommendations for improving flexibility?
can't position wrists properly on the bar for squats
can't raise elbows high enough for cleans
I've started "Molding Mobility" and "Starting Streching" from the current sticky, will that work?
Eli Brown
>Kinda hard to go against that grain when Rippetoe actively advocates otherwise.
Yes, and Rippetoe can advocate the program however he wants. Just because because a tool was designed to do one thing doesn't mean we can't use ingenuity and common snese to utilize this tool for something else.
The reason SS is a good program is the same reason most beginner barbell programs are good: they utilize linear progression and compound exercises. That's it. SS is good for strength because that is all it is working towards, being very minimal in it's compisition. If your goal isn't strength, then SS is wrong for you. I'm sorry I cannot fit the contents of an entire book here, if you want the full scientific explination, buy the book and read it.
>Aesthetics are the goal for most people.
And that is ok. If your preference is SL over SS, then do it. SS was not made for aesthetic in mind, just strength. My goal was to clarify how the SS program worked and common gripes/false impressions about it, not to state it is the only routine you could do. Please do SL if that is what will keep you going to the gym every week.
Jonathan Williams
youtube.com
I like to do this on my off days, but I've found the best thing to improve flexibility with power cleans (besides making sure your form is on point, you grip may not be loose enough at the top) is to just keep practicing with them. Other than that, stretching is perfectly fine after your workout.
As for wrist position on squats, have you tried a thumbless grip?
Matthew Parker
I like OP's posts.
I'd add/clarify:
Cardio/conditioning: when, what, how, recovery interaction
Stretching: when, what, how, dynamic vs static
Recovery: sleep, rest days, how to fit everything in the whole week, when you're recovery is insufficient
Lifter path: when a novice is and advanced novice but not intermediate, differences between those and intermediate, fatigue management
Blake Campbell
Thank you, I will definitely be writing on these.
Blake Turner
>SS allows for greater intensity of the sets and longer linear progression when doing 3 sets instead of 5 sets like SL.
StrongLifts is just a longer version of Starting Strength. I’ll explain:
In StrongLifts, you do 5 sets with just the bar and no warm up. Over time, you get to 8 sets (3 warmup and 5 working). Then, you fail... and go to 3 working sets... also known as Starting Strength.
Oh, and there’s the Rows vs Power Cleans thing, but that doesn’t really matter.
Jackson Price
yeah I've only been using thumbless but I can't keep my wrist from bending
Joseph White
True, but you it just seems to me I can skip the 5x5 and just go through the 3x5 without needing to fail as many times. If you want to that's perfectly fine, it'll just take longer to get where you would than with 3x5. No reason not to take it slow if time is on your side.
Lucas Watson
My brother went through similar steps, he got himself some wrist wraps and he's been fine since. Something to consider, as unless you are competing, it's silly to let joint issues get in the way of physical fitness/strength gains.
amazon.com
Aiden Martin
This is a rare good thread