/fast/ #174 - New OP Edition

The age old debate... is zero calories or zero insulin better?

The human body is fucking amazing and also terrible holy shit.

zero calories
insulin is fine if you arent some sort of diabetic retard who dies from basic bodily functions

Binge ate the last few days. I wish I could find a hitman on le dark web to assassinate me holy fuck.

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what the fuck is that jesus christ

Landwhale, be sure to not get too close if you want to keep a steady weight.

Snakemam says skinnyfats can gain muscle while fasting. Anyone buying it? I'm DYEL, but also want to lose my gut.

5 days without eating, am I really in ketosis??

>gain muscle when fasting
>build biomass with zero calories

Yes, this sounds about right according to the laws of entropy.

But, user. There are calories in your bodyfat.

Genetics

I'm looking to fast for my cut. At this point I'm basically still a skinny lanklet at 6'1" 173 lbs (78 kg) but I'm early in the process. Right now I'm around 20% body fat and the most I have ever fasted is 36 hours.

Can anyone tell me what to expect going into this? Such as what the rate of fat loss will be (calculator says ~6 lbs/week) or how much strength should I expect to lose. Should I change from SS during this period? What is the effectiveness of OMAD vs. pure fasting and should I just do OMAD instead if I'll feel much better and therefore able to do it longer?

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Reminder to ignore tripfags.

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When is the best time for omad? This dude keeps popping up on youtube ads saying night time is best, but a lot of people say breakfast is beat.

The differences between breakfast and night when it comes to OMAD are going to be insignificant when compared to the metabolic benefits one gets from fasting.

If you do better eating in the morning then eat then. Same goes for lunch, dinner, or evening. Whichever works best for you.

Here are my results from OMAW over the last 15 days. You can see the exact point it started.

The little humps are refeed days, unfortunately I'm finding it difficult to balance out the social aspect on weekends.

Without them it would have been, linearly, a pound a day. This is starting at 220 though so for you I would expect closer to 4lbs a week.

Don't bother with OMAD or you're never truly fasting.

I've been doing this on snake juice (1L a day) but starting to think it's not needed for OMAW based on the new OP?

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can anybody explain to me why one need salt and potassium in their water fast? I am currently doing a 5 days water fast.. just done first 24 hrs but I only drink plain water.. can I complete 5 days without salt and potassium? picnotrelated

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Potassium is an electrolyte that prevents muscle cramps. You don't really need salt/potassium/magnesium until maybe 3 days in.

>Q: Can I eat (something with calories)?
>A: No. Even a 5cal piece of gum breaks your fast
>Q: Can I drink 0cal black coffee or tea? Diet soft drinks?
>A: Debatable. Try to break your caffine addiction

Source? Almost everything I've read says if you eat/drink less than 25 cals then it won't break the fast, pretty much all google searches I find says drinking black coffee or putting sweetners in your coffee don't break a fast.

I mean, it's literally just hot water and 100mg of caffeine, it's comparable to taking other random supplements.

From the op:
>Headache=more salts
So drink snake juice on OMAW if you start getting headaches. If not then you're fine.

Do you still workout?

but I wont die from it right? I mean, if I do not consume sodium chloride and potassium chloride in my H2O?

>Q: Can I drink 0cal black coffee or tea? Diet soft drinks?
>A: Debatable. Try to break your caffine addiction
>Debatable
Also
>Insulin: Hormone which regulates fat retention in the body. Spiked by eating, especially carbs. Potentially spiked by artificial sweeteners as well.
>Potentially
Seems like these topics are open for discussion.

On an extended water fast, yes, you can die from it. See: Hypokalemia

I just found out that all the LoSalts available at my local market contain iodine.
Is this a bad thing if I use it for a 3 day fast instead NoSalt?

Your heart is a muscle. Heart cramps, you gonna be in trouble.

of course not getting electrolytes can kill you, user

Should be fine. Potassium is what's important. Iodine and Chlorine are mostly interchangeable.

Been thinking about what meal is best to have last before a fast. I think dinner is the answer because it means one less hungry night than if you start with breakfast. I say hungry because I'm already quite thin and just fasting for autophagy benefits, if you're fat you can disregard this because you probably won't be hungry. For example:
>Monday breakfast -> Thursday breakfast = 3 hungry nights
>Monday dinner -> Thursday dinner = 2 hungry nights

por que no los dos

this image makes me angry every time

Yes, but only at half the usual weight. Strength hasn't been sapped but recovery is noticeably longer. Cardio has completely gone to shit.

Just trying to stave off atrophy and keep my gains until the bitter end.

Increases in insulin from this don't really matter for a few reasons.
- doesn't weaken autophagy
- doesn't make insulin resistence worse
- doesn't kick you out of ketosis

Sources are going to be conflicting about the coffee/tea thing. For instance Tim Ferris says coffee breaks a fast and has research to back it up, and Dr. Jason Fung says it doesn't and has research to back it up. Like all nutrition research, there is conflicting data everywhere you look.

Yeah, don't worry about it too much. After 3-4 days fasting, supplement 1/2 tsp of potassium and sodium a day max(if you feel lightheaded). You do not want to overdo it. I went to the ER because I had too much potassium, and I was fasted for 5 days. I almost couldn't breathe and my heart could've failed. I also took way more than 1/2 tsp a day.

Do artificial sweeteners lessen ketosis?

Can I fulfill my sodium/potassium needs by just mixing it in a shot glass with water instead of sipping it throughout the day?

You will shit your brains out. And electrolytes with it.

Might puke it up, the body doesn't like massive amounts of salt all at once

Are headaches normal in my first fasting? 5 days in and I've been drinking snake juice from time to time (1 tsp of himalayan pink salt and one of potassium), with some minimal purified water on the side.

>Seems like these topics are open for discussion.
Not really, the ambiguity comes from there being so many artificial sweeteners and trying to speak to them all. Don't use them, full stop.

I'm a type 1 diabetic and my doctor says fasting will fuck my shit up with insulin on board constantly. Is he right or is he just trying to steal my gains?

Hi, so I have read about hypokalemia (cramps cause by lacks of potassium in blood cells), and salt is used to ease the user to consume water and to prevent lightheadedness (correct me if I'm wrong). For the hypokalemia, it says that it can happened too by doing prolonged fasting, may I know how long is this prolonged fasting? is 5 days long enough? should I stop at day 3?

idk, this was in response to the sight of food.

Fast as long as you want, man. Just be sure to get some sodium and potassium while doing it.

they shouldn't, it's all about calories

>fuck my shit up with insulin on board constantly
Fasting lowers basal insulin, so I dunno what he means by "on board constantly." The whole fucking thing about being type 1 is you don't make enough insulin, so it's very unlikely you have any insulin resistence at all. However fasting has been shown to regenerate the beta cells in your pancrease responsible for insulin production. So, try it at measure it and see.

You don't need to take insulin shots or medications if you're not eating food, so only take it on refeeds.

If you were type 2 I'd say go for it, type 1 is dangerous shit since ketoacidosis could kill you. Don't take advice from a Burmese auto-erotic asphyxiation enthusiast forum when your life is on the line.

I agree with you, but because it's still debatable, I left some ambiguity in the OP. It's obviously better for user to not drink the diet coke, but I agree with Fung that if it helps user not eat food or drink a real coke, it's a net positive. But of course ideally the pussy should just drop them altogether.

If your post is summarized by, "hello. I don't fucking know anything" why post it?

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I know we have to consume sodium and potassium, I just want to know when one should stop (at what day?) if they do not have sodium and potassium while doing water fast.. sorry

See no. I make no insulin, so I'm taking basal insulin through a pump so I don't die. I take over 40 units of insulin throughout the day as a basal and supplement food with more.

>t. murderer
neck yourself you fat fuck

If you dont have the salts (you should get some) then whenever you start to feel like shit, eat something. Note: being hungry and emotional is not the same as having headaches and feeling like shit

Yeap, but similar to people who take test... your body gets lazy and stops trying. If you want to experiment cut your basal in half when you're fasting. Don't bother if you're not going to try at least 72 hours... and dry fasting is for healing. I would be very interested to see the results of a type 1 willing to experiment.
Nice post

How do you fight the lethargy? I've been doing fasts since January and actually have hit my original goal, but each fast I feel more apathetic and lethargic.

>type 1 diabetic
You absolutely should not be fasting for extended periods of time.

The problem with type 1 diabetics is their requirement for exogenous insulin. Ketoacidosis occurs because the body's cells are starving for energy so ketosis ramps up. And since energy transport into cells is fucked up, the cells don't get that energy. So ketones continue to build up. The effect of this spiral is insanely high blood sugar and ketones which is the dangerous combination.

Type 1 diabetics who fast need to keep a careful eye on BOTH glucose and ketones.

A good weight loss approach for t1d is to go very low carb to full keto. This dietary approach will require significantly more individualized and day-to-day monitoring of glucose to dose insulin.

Through the minimization of insulin you'll free up fat stores to release energy.

I cannot stress enough that this approach is much more demanding in critical thinking about dosing insulin instead of the blanket Ron Popeil approach to insulin..."inject 30 units of long acting insulin every day and forget it"

>set it and forget it

If you're a type 1 diabetic then your body doesn't make insulin at all. So your body will start making its own glucose, and be unable to do anything with it. This is extremely dangerous.

Fasting is great for the fat as fuck type 2 diabetics. But not for you, my friend. Diabetic ketoacidosis is potentially life threatening.

>You don't need to take insulin shots or medications if you're not eating food
Please for the love of god shut the fuck up if you have no idea what you're talking about. Particularly in instances where actual medical harm could be the impact of your fucking ignorance.

Fat is stored as tri-glycerides. Three fatty acid molecules attached to a glycerol backbone. As fat is mobilized the fatty acid molecules are cleaved from the glycerol backbone and turned into ketones through the ketogenic pathway. The glycerol backbone that's left over goes into the gluconeogenic pathway to form glucose.

Jesus christ, listen to your fucking doctor if you've got diabetes.

*Unless it's type 2

If that's the case your doctor is just gonna tell you to stop being a fat fuck, so yes you should still listen to them

That's another thing too. So without insulin you can go into ketoacidosis potentially.

With a permanent source of insulin, you can't really fast anyway. Insulin opposes glucagon, the hormone which produces the effects of fasting.

So as long as your on this pump, even the best fast wouldn't be good for you. And without insulin, it could be dangerous. You should stick to calorie reduction imo.

IMO generally people would say not to but as long as you monitor your BSL regularly and have some sugar on hand if you crash then you might be fine. You would likely not need to take your regular meal-time insulin dose at all.

Running a 5k on ~48 hours into a dry fast, is that a terrible idea?

on a dry fast, yeah probably.

I run two marathons every year. a full and a half. And I only ever run them two days deep into a fast.

On top of that I do an annual bike ride across the state that averages 50-70 miles a day over 5 days. I also do this entire event in a completely fasted state and only consume a minimal amount of electrolytes during it.

Find out and report back.

>race
>dry fasting
no

Not a race, just that tomorrow is one of my run days and while I usually do them water fasted, this is my first dry fast so I was thinking of doing a short run to have something down rather than nothing

I don't want you to drop dead over this user, but it's your life.

first day of fast. should I switch to omad and have some chicken?

Two digit iq.

Are you fat?
>No
Are you ripped?
>Sure

it's hard not to! really feeling it. wouldn't omad still be good?

If you go 60 hours without eating, you will no longer feel hungry. You will understand that eating is emotional. Push through user, you fat fuck. Nothing tastes better than having a good looking body feels.

just finished first 24 hours of my fast

longest I've ever gone is 90 hours, which wasn't that bad at all

I almost passed out taking a piss that morning so I broke my fast

still trying to get my salts right

how does water play into this? why would wet fast not be as beneficial as dry?

what water should I buy?

evion water, in reality it doesn't matter if it's going to be an excuse for you to not do it

water can't keep your body hydrated by itself, your body needs salt to hold water and not fuck up your organs

the point of wet fasting is so you can do it for very extended amounts of time (easily 2 weeks if you're willing) without dying

if you try to dry fast for 2 weeks you will die

dry fasting is better for healing your body allegedly

artisinal spring water collected by paraplegic shaolin monks from a mountain spring collected only on the vernal equinox on a leap year.

I was watching a video on YouTube and a doc was talking about drinking broth during fasting to deal with hunger. is it okay? I have those lil cubes that's only 5 Cal's and sure as fuck want to try.

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That's bouillon, not broth.

Does toothpaste counts as breaking the fast?

Yes.

Are you swallowing it?

will it fuck my fast?

so I can do 2 weeks on snake juice?

No.

I want to see before and after pics of a guy with actual muscles at like 20% body fat cut down to 12% while maintaining lifts while doing something like OMAD/any other fasting routine. This seems like it only works for fat sedentary fucks.

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>start burning fat
>your breath reeks of sulphur now
>women hate you

>lost weight
>the skin remained the same extra size

Is this a part of your plan?

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Brian Flemming lost his weight on a traditional low calorie diet.