CICO

damn

Your diet is shit house. Eat better, you have way too much sugar and carbs...

Wanna loose weight? Eat green vegetables and chicken (not fried)
Drop the fast food, pre prepped shit.
You consume 20g sugar first thing in the morning!?!?

>Seriously doubt you have any clue about nutrition

Which is more likely?

> you don’t know how to count

> the laws of physics are broken

Is this a fucking joke?

Learn to cook your own goddamned food like a fucking adult.
No, buying premade shit from the store and throwing in the microwave, or stove if you're feeling culinary, is not cooking.
Get whole veg meats berries fruits nuts herps spices and start cooking your own foods.
It's cheaper, healthier, and yes you'll drop tons of weight.
You'll also have to start drinking more pure refined water from a trustworthy source.

Lift often, eat like picrelated and you won't have to count calories

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Jokes on you, he's 7'2" and 9% bf

>implying metabolism doesn't change

Either your math is off, or your tracking is.

Maybe I'm overreacting and it's not even a plateau. It just really feels like one. I was losing weight so fucking fast when I was heavier. I guess I should lower my expectations from now on.

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>implying metabolism isn’t just “calories out”

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Not sure why or anything, but it took me 6 weeks of dieting before I lost a single pound. Just keep at it and things will be fine.

If you're not losing weight then you're still eating too much. Drop the cals to 1000. Or better yet, go check out /fast/ and stop eating all together for a while

doesnt everyone know that it maxes out at like 1lb a week after a while? there's also little point in tracking your weight daily. eat less, workout more if you can

Meal prep is your friend. Every Sunday I cook the whole bag of organic frozen chicken (not the best but I'm a student and on a tight budget), then through the rest of the week I just have to warm that up and make some veggies and quinoa on the side and I have a decent meal every night.
If you're actually that much of a fat fuck learning to like the healthy versions of junk food is a good first step to cutting them out completely. Black coffee instead of Starbucks, kombucha instead of soda, cinnamon sprinkled rice cakes instead of candy, froyo instead of ice cream.
Even on days you go over your calories still put it into the app, I had a big problem when I first started getting Jow Forums where I would go a couple hundred over my calories, and then say fuck it and go crazy the rest of the day eating complete shit.
It's not hard, it's just about consistency and once you start seeing results you get addicted to it.

how are you tracking?

my guess is that since you're a fatty you are lying to yourself about how much you actually eat and perhaps are ignoring snacks.

ok i'm at 200lbs trying to get to 190lbs and it's pretty fucking annoying losing weight imo. i can be pretty good mon-fri (day and afternoon) but then friday night and saturday can fuck you up. not wasting my effort by cheating too hard on the weekend is a problem for me. not sure if it is for you.

tdee can be kind of bullshit. i am at ~1800 calories a day and not losing weight at 2905 cal recommended intake, with more exercise than at that level

This

so what do you eat for breakfast and lunch?

>Pure sugar and carbs
>1700 kcal, which isn't even that low
>No mention of exercises
Drop it to 1000-1200kcal of pure home cooked veggies and chicken, or do a fast or something.

>Is CICO a meme?
A little bit. When we measure calories in food we just burn the food and count how many calories are given off, thats how we do calorimetry. The actual calories your body absorbs is different depending on what you eat. Protein is probably the hardest to get actual calories out of because your body has to convert it to sugar to use while refined sugar in foods is the easiest to get out of because it can go right into your blood and be ready to use. Also at 2 weeks you are most likely retaining a lot of water because your body likes to fill up depleted fat stores with water to preserve the fat cells so your body doesn't have to constantly remake fat cells. Look up the swoosh effect. Also improving counting calories and exercising more would help a lot.

>is CICO a meme?
It's basic fucking thermodynamics

OP, I'm not going to try to shit on you too hard like everyone else in here. When I started losing weight I was 330 pounds. I would seriously advise you learning how to cook (cook in general) first, so you know exactly what ingredients are going in to your food. You also start to appreciate just what YOU can do and soon that prepackaged "food" will taste like garbage like it should if you ever pick it up again. After you get a sense of cooking you'll want to make sure you are cooking *clean*. No quick microwaving stuff, try to eat organic if you can afford it, etc. Currently at 220 pounds after year and a half later, I know people are shitting on hormones guy but yes eventually that will happen too but you've got a while until you hit that point, I'm having to radically change my diet to start losing again (even with exercise 5 days a week I've hit a "wall" so I need to change). Buy a food scale, count the calories, learn about macros, and get your ass in that gym. Good luck.

P.S. There is usually a thread called /fat/ in here if you want more advise, just search the catalogue.

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Great job man, keep it up!

When you eat a pound of food do you gain a pound of fat?
No?
Okay
Also, Cars go far on a single tank of gas.
Problem is that some people are driving hybrids while the others are driving hummers.

Hummers are gas(sugar+fat)guzzlers that don't get very far.
Hybrids(clean eating light amounts of sugars fats if any) go a hell of a lot farther and are smaller and lighter.

5/3/1 doesn’t have enough work load

>everyone talking about calories
>retard starts talking about mass

...what?

>cico is a meme.
Reee. Eat less you fat fucker.
When im really cutting hard i eat about 1200 a day.

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not only do you eat unhealthily, but you are spending relatively huge amounts of money on all that processed and frozen shit

Diet of literally just brown rice, beans, chicken breasts, whole milk, broccoli is VASTLY cheaper and VASTLY healthier than this

Do you think your body disobeys thermodynamics?

>Is CICO a meme?
no but is not the whole formula
macros count , fucking carbs and insulin response
timing counts , eating fewer meals or having a small feed window helps

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Shut the fuck up about thermodynamics you cunt

if you blast roids and test you will lose fat and gain a shit tonne of muscle

Yeah, I figured it wasn't too healthy and it's definitely too expensive. I guess I'll go back to buying a giant bag of frozen chicken breast and some veggies.

You didn't answer my question

Anyway, even someone on will gain on a surplus and lose on a deficit

>when im cutting
Implying you're ever cut before

It is physically impossible for you not to lose weight if you exercise regularly and eat only ~1600 Kcals at almost 300 pounds. Stop bitching and accept that your body is not exempt from thermodynamics. Stop making excuses, and take care of yourself like an adult!

>Implying input (calories in) and output (calories out) are completely different beasts
>Implying Op's issue is a CICO matter, disregarding the effect of lowering CI has on his CO
Visit the /fast/ general ,op

Also these

Alright guys OP here. I'm going to walmart later today to restock on food. What kind of shit should I get that won't take all afternoon to cook? I'm going to stock up on frozen chicken breast of course and I already have lots of tuna. How bad are those frozen steam-in-bag veggies?

Really though, I'm unsure what to buy. I'm pretty unimaginative when it comes to cooking.

Those bags are perfectly fine.
I use one of those four or five times a week, combined as a side to usually salmon, pork tenderloin or beef patties.

Btw when I started hitting a plateau hard, I switched to OMAD (one meal a day) and it not only improved my weight loss greatly, it also improved my energy levels throughout the day and decreased hunger massively.

Like a few people have said in the thread, CICO is legit, but not the full picture. Hormones, insulin response etc. has an influence, and you can do something about it by switching from three meals per day to intermittent fasting.

Treat your gut biome

But you aren't a coalburner, are you?

>Is CICO a meme?
No, you're snacking outside your diet and not noting it down.

I can easily go two weeks without the scale moving at all on 1000 calories a day deficits. Thrn suddenly I’ll spend a full day pissing and lose two or three kilos.
That’s basically been the way I’ve lost 30 kilos. It can be a bit frustrating, but over the long run, my weighloss has still been pretty much what it’s supposed to be in terms of CICO.

alright great, I'll grab plenty of those.

If your water weight is working like that your nutrition must be fucked.

I don’t even eat bad shit, all homemade stuff, but it includes plenty of pasta and risotto and I don’t skimp on salt.
I think that’s the main reason and I could change it if I wanted to, but as long as the weight keeps going down in the long run, I’ll stick with the food I love, even if I am a bit annoyed by the plateaus.
It’s also not always 14 days, can be seven or ten, but 14 isn’t unusual for me.

>Is CICO a meme?
Yes. It was a meme when invented 120 years ago and it still is.

In b4 Thermodynamics, l2physics and l2biology.
>Whut you can't bulk on gasoline
>LAWL THERMODYNAMICS BROKEN!!!

How long have you been dieting for?

It doesn't consider how many calories eaten are actually kept and not just shit out, and it also doesn't consider your hormones which determine how your body will distribute calories.

CICO is somewhat true (law of thermodynamics and all) but it's not quite that simple.

Your diet is shit house. Eat better, you have way too much sugar and carbs...
>Get whole veg meats berries fruits nuts herps spices and start cooking your own foods.
>It's cheaper, healthier, and yes you'll drop tons of weight.
>Lift often, eat like picrelated and you won't have to count calories
>Meal prep is your friend
>Pure sugar and carbs
>No mention of exercises
>I would seriously advise you learning how to cook (cook in general) first, so you know exactly what ingredients are going in to your food.
>Diet of literally just brown rice, beans, chicken breasts, whole milk, broccoli is VASTLY cheaper and VASTLY healthier than this

As you can see:
CICO IS A MEME AND Jow Forums AGREES.

>CICO is somewhat true (law of thermodynamics and all) but it's not quite that simple.
CICO isn't thermodynamics, never was, never will be. It's literally just Americans making shit up.

Otherwise, you could bulk on a glass of gasoline a day. Why can't you? Because you cannot digest it. But the way calories are counted (burning) ignores this completely. So calories have nothing to do with thermodynamics in dieting, gaining or losing weight. It's bullshit by dumb people who cannot into physics and cannot into biology.

Cico is indeed a meme and everyone here is wrong. A CALORIE IS A CALORIE in a qualitative sense. But on a biochemical level calories are not quantitatively equal. Just google search "why is a calorie not a calorie". If you eat a surplus, sure, you'll gain weight. But will you complain if you gained muscle and not fat? What if you eat a deficit, would you complain if you lost muscle or fat? We ideally want to gain muscle at a surplus and lose fat at a deficit. YOUR DIET affects these ratios. YOUR BODY will digest food through different metabolic pathways and different hormones get secreted accordingly. COUNTING CALORIES IS THE BIGGEST FUCKING GAINS GOBLIN I FELL FOR ON Jow Forums. BUT NOW I'M DOING GREAT AND I'M SHEDDING PURELY ABDOMINAL FAT JUST BY EATING A HIGH PROTEIN DIET AND ABSOLUTELY NO JUNK FOOD. NOT EVEN A BITE. ANY TIME YOU FEEL HUNGRY OR WANT TO SNACK...EAT WHOLE FOODS. YOU'LL SHED ABDOMINAL FAT LIKE CRAZY.

Fuck .i mixed that up.
cico = quantitative

Are all calories created equal? Of course not. Your body metabolizes proteins fats sugars, etc differently. I think we can all fucking agree here that even though 2 chicken tenderloins and a bag of Mnms have roughly the same calories...the type of energy, nutrients, satiety, and feeling you get differ vastly. Don't eat like shit even in moderation if you're trying to lose body fat, OP. And don't act like you're not eating shitty ass food.

retard detected

CICO is not a meme when it comes to bodyweight management, macros though impact muscle and fat gain/loss alongside training.

But pretty much anyone who follows CICO is already training and eating enough protein, so CICO becomes relevant for sure, if you don't eat enough calories to gain weight, good luck gaining muscle, sure it is possible but it's ridiculously difficult.
Losing fat on a caloric balance/surplus is impossible though, unless you take anabolics that improve nutrient partitioning artificially in which case after that initial jump CICO becomes relevant again.
Basically anyone who talks shit about CICO has no idea what it actually means.

You have to use your brain.

Different people process food differently, like different cars have different fuel efficiency. On top of that there's factors like stress, excercise (how the fuck do you count calories spent on exercise with any precisions, seriously).

So CICO works but ONLY if you keep a strict regime (consistent sleep) and figure out your optimal maintenance/deficit/bulk numbers, this takes a lot of time at first.

>because you cannot digest it
You have no idea what CICO mean appearently.
All the energy your body gets from the food you eat is literally the "calories in" component, Calories out is all the energy used to sustain your body, plus all the physical activity you're doing.

Even when you take protein digestability, anti nutrients and all that shit into account, your body makes use of a certain ammount of energy from the food you eat so I don't understand why you are trying to debunk CICO with this amazing revelation of yours.

Yes calories are just an arbitary number in the context of a human being since we don't perfectly absorb all the calories equally in every single food there is, plus protein and fiber don't have as much net energy as they show up on the labels, but you are still eating a certain ammount of calories, and eating less calories will make you lose weight.
That's all there is to it, only retards attempt to refute CICO.

It's called thermogenesis of food, nigger. Don't fall for it OP. A calorie is a calorie, of course. The quality of food MATTERS and if you eat like shit you'll have a shit body. I used to vigorously count calories and squeeze in little unhealthy snacks like chex mix or a muffin or tortilla chips and Salsa... Didn't look good even though the scale was dropping. I was wasting my calories on processed junk instead of whole foods. I recently stopped counting calories after 3 months and decided to just eat a high protein diet with noooo junk food. I shed 5lbs in 2 weeks lol. I also became more cautious of using salt which reduced bloating as well.

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Why does everything have to be so complicated with you nerds, just workout 4-5 times a week, track your calories and don't eat shit

Mind you it works like a domino effect.
>eat whole foods with fiber and protein
>obviously feel full
>hormones are not spiking and stay full longer
>stable mental and physical energy from steady hormone levels
>protein uses up 25-30% energy JUST TO be metabolized by the body. This means even though the label says 100 calories you might only have really gotten 70 calories from it by the time it's done being metabolized. This is great because a calorie is still a calorie qualitatively but once we factor in the biochemical aspect... A calorie from a food high in protein is not the same as a protein high in fructose.

>reduced salt
>lost water weight
>cut off junk food, aka started eating more fiber
>CICO DOESN'T WORK WAAAAAAAAH

Nah, obese newfags don't get to spread "woke" nutritional advice here.
You lost weight because you started eating less energy and started losing water weight, woopdie fucking doo.

>thermogenesis
Yeah, some nutrients require unproportional ammounts of energy in order to be metabolized, guess what, eating less will help you lose weight anyway, so CICO is still unrefuted.
The calories you see on the label are not representative of the actual energy your body gets from eating those foods, but it's a good way of measuring overall energy found in foods, that's why calories are an actual thing and will still be relevant in any circle that matters like bodybuilding.

Fuck I mixed it up again. Sorry. A calorie is a calorie quantitatively. ***

Wrong. Idk if I started eating more or less. I stopped counting. And who actually cares if they gain weight if it's muscle? as long as you eat healthy foods high in protein, you'll gain muscle mass and have a better body composition. If you eat like shit it doesn't matter if you count calories or not. Great! The scale changed because you're eating at a deficit. If you're choosing a blueberry muffin for breakfast over 2 eggs.. You'll likely not have the nutrients to sustain muscle and will lose muscle mass. So yeah of course eating a deficit from your TDEE will result in WEIGHT loss. But whether you lose fat or muscle mass RELIES ENTIRELY ON THE KIND OF NUTRIENTS YOU CHOSE TO EAT.

>I don’t skimp on salt.
That's your problem. As long as you're okay with that water retention schedule then keep it up, we're all gonna make it.

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>even though the scale was dropping
This conversation is literallyonly about weight loss, and CICO made you lose weight.

>So yeah of course eating a deficit from your TDEE will result in WEIGHT loss.
Then why are you saying CICO is a meme?

Just for perspective I threw an approximation of your data into a smoothed graph and got this out.

The data points are the dots and the red line is a smoothed plot of the data using a moving 7 day average. As you can see, so far the vast majority of your data points rest below the moving average indicating sustained and reliable weight loss.

One of the drawbacks to weighing yourself every day is the wild day to day fluctuations. For example, if I go out and eat chinese food then my "weight" will go up as much as 4 or 5 lbs the next day. But that's because chinese food is my one cheat meal every month in a very ketogenic, naturally low sodium diet. That one meal loads me up with glycogen, and salt both of which lead to increased water retention.

As a result of these fluctuations and variability it can be difficult for you to suss out and see the overall trend of weight loss as you progress through your diet and training.

However by utilizing the power of the smoothing function of a moving average you get a very nice trend line against which you can compare those daily numbers. As you can see most of your data points are either at or below this trend line indicating progress in the right direction. If you were to start seeing the data trend at or above the line then you would actually get an earlier indication that something was going wrong in your diet plans.

The best app I found for tracking weight that uses this moving average is Libra - Weight Manager

>and got this out
>doesn't post graph

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Bomb calorimetry is pretty good for finding the upper limit of the amount of calories food contains. With the assays we perform to determine macronutrient content, you’re left with a pretty good estimate of the caloric content of the food. So in general, just going off of the food labels CICO is about 90% accurate, which is just fine for weight loss. If anything you should be losing more weight than you would predict

?

>itt: muh nutrition label religion

and: Do you think they actually use bomb calorimetry to figure out food values?

21CFR101.9 peruse this bureaucratic bullshit for some enlightenment if you want to see just how well food companies can game you.

Calories can be determined by bomb calorimetry, but can also be calculated based on the 4,4,9 energy constituency of determined macro-nutrients. And those macro-nutrient declarations can be off by as much as 20% either way. This is referred to in the industry as the 80-120 rule.

And if you don't think food companies don't have a vested interest in maximizing their deception of calories or nutrition you're a god damn moron.

If they're listing 20 grams of fat you better believe there's 25, particularly if it's a weight loss food.

Your protein powder companies are sure as hell swinging this the other way by overstating the protein by 20%

"eat at a 500 calorie deficit"
"500 calories a day results in a 1lb/week weight loss"
"500 calorie reduction per day is sustainable"

OP's food diary with it's 1680calorie figure could be as much as 2100 real calories according to the FDA's own regulations. A difference of 420 calories. You could be doing your fucking damnest to eat at a 500 calorie deficit... but according to FDA that's all right. And if you don't believe that food companies are doing everything they can to maximize their food's attractiveness in both calories, nutrients, and food appeal then you're a fucking idiot.

>1680 calories can be off by as much as 420 calories
>"BULLSHIT!"
>google 80-120 rule
>pic related

What in the actual fuck to do with this information? So just add 20% to everything?

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>So just add 20% to everything?
If you're eating food like in that diary, like the atkins meals, lean cuisine, lara bars (which are actually candy bars in disguise). Then yes. You can easily add 20% to their declared values because they have a vested interest in lying to you.

Otherwise you can do what I tell the fatties I've trained to do. Eat an exclusively whole foods diet to satiety. Drink only water or unsweetened drinks. Eat only two meals a day. and throw in days of fasting if the scale doesn't move enough.

fda.gov/ICECI/Inspections/InspectionGuides/ucm114098.htm

If they list a food containing 25 grams of fat as 20 grams they’re in violation of the NLEA. There is certainly rounding off of food values, especially in regards to marketing something as “fat free” or “zero calorie,” but it’s absurd to suggest it occurs on such an extreme level

this and check'd

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> not eating 4 eggs

Fucking retard. In all food, there are parts of it that are indigestible, take fiber for an example. So of course eating a pound of food won't make you a pound heavier, because your body DOESN'T FUCKING ABSORB ALL 1 POUND OF IT! Though pounds are a measure of weight not mass, but that's nitpicking.

We're talking specifically about weight loss, retard. Of course it's possible to eat at a surplus and not gain weight; that just means your body is literally shitting out the excess calories. Saying that it's possible to not lose weight on a caloric deficit is logically equivalent to saying that his body LITERALLY CREATES MASS FROM NOTHING. CICO is literally physics applied to weight loss. You either accept CICO, or you believe in magic fat. Period. End of reasonable discussion on the subject.

Your body being able to digest the calories in question is an implicit assumption in CICO. You can't be this stupid about nutritional science and hope to correct it.

You would be correct, if the body was a perfect machine.
user, there is no such thing as a perfect machine.
What is actually happening is that their bodies are slowing down and their NEAT is dropping though the floor.
That's oft why people don't lose weight or see very slow weight loss on calorie restricted diets.
That's also why daily activity is oft required with moderate to high cuts in calories.

If it was a basic intermittent fast with a small eating window or fast then it can be done much easily.
But people oft use CICO IS ALWAYS CORRECT THERMODYNAMICS argument so that they can eat mcdonalds and fist fulls of candy and say I can still lose weight because I'm under my daily calorie allowance or what have you.

An addendum to this, simple calorie restriction of any kind will work almost immediately on people who are beyond fat and have no underlying physical issue.
Like up too 2 pounds in a day immediately.
However that is because their bodies are primed and desperate to burn off the excess.

Once you're merely fat to chubby, then basic simple cico starts to break down.

cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html
Oh fuck off. Nowhere in CICO is there a "perfect machine" assumption. You are lying or stupid if you say otherwise.