Why are you not vegan yet?

im not retarded

Because chicken and fish are delicious lean protein that is readily available and not expensive.

>inb4 "just buy tofu and shiet, lol"

Blame capitalism, not me.

Veganism is a stupid meme.

Vegetarianism is GOAT, prove me wrong

The only argument I accept for people who eat meat is if they say they like the taste. Any other argument I know they are retards. Good on you for being self aware

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I buy meat from a woman that I know personally. I can see the conditions that her animals live in. If you're going to say that the act of ending an animal's life is unethical, then sure, you've got me. Otherwise, these animals are living well and they're slaughtered cleanly, not tortured.

>the obscene environmental damage and resource depletion that goes into raising and processing them.

says the vegan that requires 90% of his food to be shipped from halfway across the world to him.

What is wrong with chicken and fish? So omega three oils are not a good reason to eat fish? So quality protein from chicken and fish is not a good reason to eat protein? I mean really? Ever eaten liver? you need to eat more organ meats. Everyone should eat more organ meats.

Listen man, fruits and veg give you cancer. Everyone knows that.

>ending an animal's life is unethical

That's around what I was going for yeah. There are exceptions, like in the case of life-or-death situations where a human is starving, or in the process of justified medical science experiments.

Tbh, the only ethical meats I can think of off the bat would be insects and lab meat.

>says the vegan

Your reading comprehension needs work, user

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Why is insects ok and not fish or other meat?

pls help me get into organ meats, I can't even be in the same room as cooked liver, the smell makes me throw up

>haha I was just defending the morality of being a vegan, im not actually vegan lmao

jesus youre insufferable

>says the meat eating faggot that uses hyperbolized strawmen to justify the literal rivers of feces and metric tons of methane that flow from the factory farms he supports with his dollar
KEKD

Industrial agriculture in its current state is absolutely fucked. The pesticides and fertilizers are out of control, and virtually no farmers are using nitrogen-replacing crop rotation to save the soil they're destroying. It's hard to buy food that isn't ethically catastrophic.

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I was very heavily into vegan culture a while back, then I moved onto vegetarianism, and probably will go back to meat.

I realised suffering with animals exists at every level and diet and you can't avoid it. I honestly see nothing wrong with eating chicken/fish if you are aware of the death involved.

Why is an insect's life worth less than meat from e.g. a cow? Isn't this a major flaw in veganism?

Sentience (e.g: emotional capacity, ability to experience subjective qualia, suffering, etc.)

I know that all mammals and birds have it, along wiht some cephalopods (ex: octopus). I'm not sure on fish.

the animals we eat are lesser than us. they do not have a conscious mind like us and killing them for food is not immoral. if we killed them and didnt eat them, then that would be immoral. but they evolved and we evolved to eat them and that cycle of birth and death will happen far into the future when humans are extinct

>haha I'm a defensive retard who can't read

This is the last reply you're getting, friend. Get that much needed last word in.

So is it okay to eat a retarded mentally handicapped human with limited consciousness/emotional capability/sentience ?

veganism makes no sense

how do you know insects dont? how do you know non-human mammals do?

Just because something can experience suffering makes it immoral to kill it? Wouldn't killing it bring and end to that suffering?

>they do not have a conscious mind like us
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness
>fcmconference.org/img/CambridgeDeclarationOnConsciousness.pdf

We're sapient and more intelligent, I'll give you that.

Look up some foreign recipes. I know that China and Japan both have a ton of recipes that use organ meat, like organ stew and grilled organ skewers. The organ stew, I've heard, is indistinguishable from regular meat. I'm pretty sure almost every culture on earth other than American (hmm) has plenty of recipes that use organ meat. Or just suck down a few whole raw chicken livers. My mom is severely anemic and she should do that, but she has a paper stomach (as opposed to an iron stomach), she gags at just the thought of raw organs.
I'm not that user, but insects have very short lifespans naturally and they lack the nervous system to process pain.
I'm really interested in the lab meat idea. I wonder how it tastes. Imagine a future where all meat is lab-grown. I wonder what those farmers and livestock will do? I mean, people say shit like "they make great pets!!" and, sure, they're nice animals and all, but a cow is expensive to keep and a pig is just... a pig. They're intelligent as hell, but they really don't strike my fancy as a pet.

I forgot to address fish. They also lack the nervous system for pain, if I remember correctly.

Genesis 9:3 - Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Why do people still argue about this. The bible says that eating meat is okay. If you don't believe in the bible then you don't believe in morality so whats the point in talking?

Where is the best place to do this? Feel like it is difficult to eat like this in many places in the world

b/c i like not looking like I just left auschwitz. I also care more about myself than I do about either animals or the shithole nations that will be hit by the environmental impacts of my decisions.

That's a pretty lousy strawman, user.

Even a profoundly retarded human has sentience, including you. A human would have to almost entirely braindead from birth to be on an insect level. And even then, it's not okay to eat that living corpse because the parents have the authority to decide what to do with it.

Well you know 'short lifespan' is obviously a relative thing. Humans have short lifespans. That doesn't impact the ethics of killing something. As for the pain thing that doesn't seem to matter either because animals can be killed in painless ways regardless of their nervous system.

>Everyone who eats meat gets it from a cafo
Retard

see:I'm guessing there'll still be a niche market demand for 'natural' meat, sold at a higher price for people who can afford it. Ideally, all the former livestock would be kept to a minimum population for conservation and education.

I've met people who own pigs, and they tell me they're pretty much like fat, above average intelligence dogs.

>how do you know this almost impossibly hard philosophical question
>dont worry senpai *links wikipedia article*

conscious experience isn't a philosophical question as much as it's a neurological one.

As far as I know, in just about any southern state you can find people with homesteads and backyard chickens. You have to do some mom-tier networking on Facebook to find them, but it's a good way to make solid irl acquaintances. I live in the middle of North Carolina, northeast of Raleigh. If you can buy an acre, you can have enough goats to keep you in all the milk you need year round (a single Nubian can produce up to a half gallon per day, I think, but they need company so 2 is best), and enough chickens for you to have plenty of eggs, not to mention space for a garden. It sounds like a lot, but I love this stuff. Feels so good to walk out in the morning and pick some damn produce that you grew and eat it. Don't get me started on home-grown canteloupes either, those shits are literally godlike. Supermarket melons don't and will never compare, they might as well be different fruits.

*watches sam harris video once

Just about everyone does. I don't, but that doesn't mean that user is likely to have raised his own damn cow and slaughtered it himself. Statistically, I'm correct.

Don't know much about him besides that he's a JP wannabe and an angry manlet. He's definitely not the first one to know about the biological basis of sentience either.

The value of consciousness is a philosophical question. Its existence in non-humans isn't.

What a terriblly bullshit/subjective excuse. So your particular definition of sentience somehow leaves an entire phylum without a right to life? Kys

Dismissing anything you don't like isn't an argument; it's just you being evasive. It's not my unique definition of sentience, either. It's widely accepted and corroborated by objective study.

>So your particular definition of sentience somehow leaves an entire phylum without a right to life?
This implies that life is valuable solely on the basis of it being life. This is a shaky position to hold; do you think it's immoral to kill plants or bacteria? There's a reason I picked sentience as the criteria to value instead of just life.

Environmental arguments against meat consumption are vegan propaganda. Traditional livestock farming is more sustainable than plant food agriculture.

Because I enjoy meat, couldn't give a shit about animal welfare and think vegans are faggots who should kill themselves.

B12, iron, cholesterol and taste
I don't drink milk though, because I'm afraid of osteoporosis.

Yeah, aiming at doing something similar. Raw dairy is the best.

>Traditional livestock farming is more sustainable than plant food agriculture.

Lactoovovegetarianism is currently considered the most sustainable, since pure veganism takes up too much land. A focus on meat production means too much energy and resources wasted traveling up that trophic chain.

>implying that the industrial meat production from which you buy your meat is anywhere close to "traditional livestock farming"
Didn't even kek at all. Sad really.

not that user, but please make sure to pasteurize before consumption. and be cautious if you get any self-canned goods from them.

I know right? I was pretty shocked when I found out about the bullshit that's in mass-produced cow's milk, and how shitty for you it is compared to goat's milk. Goat milk sounds ratchet, but it's really great and idk where the association with goat milk=nasty that a lot of people have came from. Good for you though. I wouldn't trade this lifestyle for anything. It's so worth it.

Just stop being a tastefag
Eat it raw
Cooking denatures some good nutrients and spreads more of this toxic fumes
Your tastes take time to change

So stop being a fucking moron and aim your arguments against factory farming instead of meat eating. Perhaps the people who hear you won't think you are a massive flaming faggot that way.

Fuck lab meat. Will probably be even worse for you than CAFO meat.

Pasteurization is a meme that only came into being when milk was mass produced, thus the cows were kept in conditions that allowed for the proliferation of disease. If you keep your livestock disease free, strain the milk and drink/freeze it within the safe time frame, you're fine. Though there's no harm in pasteurizing as far as I know, it just becomes unnecessary. Some people say that it destroys the fats/proteins/chemical compounds or whatever, but honestly, I doubt it's a big deal.
t. used raw milk exclusively for the past 7 years, no issue
...Did you stop reading my original reply at "meat eater"? Because I said "meat eater that supports factory farms with his dollar". I eat meat. I don't pay for factory farmed meats. You seem mad.

>knows where everyone procures their meat
>doesn't give a shit that most plant agriculture is just as harmful
>uses arguments against industrial farming against meat consumption
All vegan retards are the same

Fuck off. Pasteurization is a scam.
Do it for your diseased cafo milk I guess, but I don't drink that shit anyway.

Pasteurization denatures beneficial enzymes

You guys are really getting mad.
These are all my posts. I'm not vegan, not against meat consumption and the second post I made in this thread mentioned the shitty state of plant agriculture. lol.
I guess. Was kind of trying to placate the pro-pasteurization poster. I don't think it'll harm you to pasteurize your milk if you want to.

>racing to see who can be more morally outraged at each others dietary choices
everyone in this thread should kys

Raw milk is responsible for most of the disease outbreaks, despite being around Pasteurization
>scam

wew. I need to hear what you think about vaccines and flat earth.

Raw milk from cows raised in CAFOs is shit and those livestock practices need to end. The breed is also unnatural and produces more milk at the cost of nutritional quality in conventional dairy operations. Imagine that, there is nuance to the situation and you can't call all raw milk good or bad. The good stuff from organic, grass-fed, pastured cows is amazing.

no man, killing is not immoral. Even killing an animal just for fun is not immoral. We are the Peak of earth Evolution. Animals are way more cruel then humans, killing is just life.
A Problem and immoral is the meat and Food Industrie bc of the way they treat those animals and the amount of killing just for getting reacher and making othe humans sick.
We should destroy the Meat and Food Industrie and go back to hunting. If a want to eat meat, no Problem chocking a chicken out.
Dont be a pussy, you can not Change nature and life. We are like animal savage, deal with it.

you mean the Jew says so.
If you want to be a jew slave... im good

>tripfag can't help but be an edgy, attention seeking moron