SL, SS, GSLP are memes

^retard detected
The program IS NOT just recommended for skinny lanky teenagers who are complete beginners living sedentary lives, but also for older people and people who have some muscles but are told to do le program because they want to get strong, they tell you to be on it for as long as possible to "milk the noob gains", which is retarded because it just makes you progres slow as shit since it has so little localized volume for each muscle group.

People would make better gains by just doing whatever at the gym but doing a lot of it, that's the truth lmao.

ITT: People who don't lift, people being pussies around Deadlifts and Squats because muh back, underage retards fooled by youtube fake natties and troll

>The program IS NOT just recommended for skinny lanky teenagers who are complete beginners living sedentary lives, but also for older people and people who have some muscles but are told to do le program because they want to get strong,

So, untrained beginners? Nothing you said contradicts what I said. If you recommend a 3x5/5x5 LP to an intermediate, you're a retard. If you're an intermediate and you listen to this advice, you're a retard.

Again, if you don't milk your noob gains after three or four months, you're doing something wrong. There is nothing wrong with trying to get as strong as possible on OHP, bench, squat, and deadlift by adding weight every workout.

>These programs are for completely untrained noobs,
It's absolute shit for untrained noobs.
I would even say it's the worst program a totally untrained unathletic noob can even do.
It's shit and the lessons it teaches are not a good introduction to weight lifting or general fitness

It is a pisspoor rip off and implementation of only the strong survive.

They are great programs to increase the basic compounds, if its not your objective then dont do it but just stfu
btw why is OP not posting is body?

ITP A paid shill for Starting Strength

People call you people autistic losers and are dropping powerlifting and even squatting and deadlifting in droves now.
Congrats.
You people played yourselves.

Deadlifts and squats are great for athletic performance, however the criticism wasn't that the program has deadlifts and squats.
You're just a pussy who's too afraid to strap on a neck harness because you're afraid of being laughed at

People recommend these programs for overall strength and athletic performance, not just to increase the basic compounds

So what should you do? What's a good program for getting bigger and stronger that doesn't neglect abs, neck, calves etc?

>They don't train neck, they don't train abs except isometrically
Most programs don't. OP is a faggot once again
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try to not listen to trolls on the most retarded website ever and use your brain

and most programs suck.

That's why I add dips, lateral raises and curls to my GSLP routine along with a post workout ab circuit

Athlete's don't do babbies first powerlifting routines.
Wannabe powerlifters and gym noobs do.

SL, SS, and GSLP are BEGINNER programs. they are designed for BEGINNERS to get a BEGINNING in developing strength and muscle mass. No football players are training on a BEGINNERS program, because they aren't BEGINNERS and their coaches aren't BEGINNERS. After you get a good foundation of how fitness, muscle and strength training with the BEGINNERS program of your choice, you might move away from a BEGINNERS program into something that you're more interested, or even program a workout designed to what you want to do specifically. If you have an extremely basic knowledge of fitness, though, you might add other exercises to your BEGINNER program to develop muscles you want like your neck or abs, or adjust your program to keep muscle development more evenly. After all, these are BEGINNERS programs, and not intermediate or advanced programs.

>Nothing you said contradicts what I said.
Except I refuted your bullshit attempt at denying the reality that there are guys who already have some muscle from doing fking bro splits at the gym but are told to do le program cause it magically puts mass on you.
Are you denying this fact or are you gonna keep acting like an obtuse annoying dyel shitbag?

>There is nothing wrong with trying to get as strong as possible on OHP, bench, squat, and deadlift by adding weight every workout.
The problem is that gives people the mentality that numbers matter more than anything else, which is bullshit considering your body doesn't care about the numbers you're lifting, only work.
If you put 10kg on your bench on your second month of doing SS you are not even gaining muscle, you are just getting better at the movement, you only get muscle from doing work and SS has shit volume and shit exercise selection for most muscle groups like arms, delts, back, calves, chest.

This is not a powerlifting routine though, it's a program recommended to people who just wanna get bigger or "stronger" in general, and they ALWAYS end up looking like shit because again it has shit volume for the actual muscle groups that matter for looking strong.

Follow SS, but also add curls and skullcrushers to develop biceps and triceps. For calves, after your last rep for your squats, do calf raises x10 for every weight you progress to, and at your max squat weight, do raises until failure. For forearms, take a 10 pound weight, and "curl" it using only your forearm muscles. Neck is trained with OHP, and for a beginner should be enough. After enough time, you may want to invest in a head strap to tie a 25 pound plate to it, and do neck raises. For back, OHP and deadlifts train those decently, but you might want to do cable pulls of some sort. Shoulders, do dumbbell shrugs and cable pulls that activate your shoulders. These are all the muscles that aren't directly hit by the big compounds, or aren't hit enough by them, that I can think of right now.

How much of a surplus did you eat at? Also what's your weight/height?

>pic
You have to do SS AND GOMAD, not just GOMAD

lol that bench

4 months lol no

that fucking squat and DL tho

It's actually shit for making people bigger.
Not nearly enough overall volume.
Vast majority of the volume is in the legs and front delts.
And if you were fat but active or have the right kind of leg muscle fibers you're going to be Trex as fuck.

It is in fact a powerlifting routine. Period.
It is not a bodybuilding routine, a good introduction to weight lifting, or even a routine that's half decent for an athlete who just wants to get a bit stronger so they can play ball.

There is no reason not to train calves and abs and to do more arm work from the very start.

There's a bit of a reason not to do neck because it's complicated. Dangers of neck training are overstated though.

What should you do then? What's a good program for beginners who want to get big and strong? Something that DOES target abs, traps, arms, and so on. I imagine training neck would just be adding neck accessory work to an already existing routine.

Workout A

Box Squat 3/5×4-6
Floor Press or Pause Bench 3/5×4-6
Pendlay Row 3/5×4-6
Overhead Barbell Extension 3×6-10
Barbell/Dumbbell Preacher Curl 3×6-10
Stiff-Legged Deadlift/Good Morning 2-3×6-10
Weighted Plank 3×30-60s

Workout B

Box Squat 3/5×4-6
Paused Overhead Press 3/5×4-6
Trap-Bar Deadlift 2×4-6
Close-Grip Bench Press 3×6-8
Weighted Chin-up 3×3-5
Weighted Plank 3×30-60s

>3/5x4-6

What does this mean?

Daily reminder that deadlifts do not make your traps grow.

GSLP HAS NECK EXTENSIONS EVERY WORKOUT
>GSLP HAS NECK EXTENSIONS EVERY WORKOUT
GSLP HAS NECK EXTENSIONS EVERY WORKOUT
>GSLP HAS NECK EXTENSIONS EVERY WORKOUT

FUCK
READ THE FUCKING BOOK

start with 5 sets, reduce down to 3 gradually as the weight becomes too heavy to complete 5 sets

What does ADNP stand for?

the fuck?

Alphadestiny's Novice Program.

sorry, meant to write PGSLP, which is reddit's pet routine

even then neck extensions are not enough to get a huge neck
you should also be doing neck flexion and neck lateral flexion. Neck rotations for bonus points

>Except I refuted your bullshit attempt at denying the reality that there are guys who already have some muscle from doing fking bro splits at the gym but are told to do le program cause it magically puts mass on you.
Are you denying this fact or are you gonna keep acting like an obtuse annoying dyel shitbag?

Are you illiterate? I literally just said that if you're someone who already lifts and has some muscle, you're an idiot if you do this kind of program unless you want to get your numbers up. And if you recommend this program to someone like that, you're an idiot.

>If you put 10kg on your bench on your second month of doing SS you are not even gaining muscle, you are just getting better at the movement, you only get muscle from doing work and SS has shit volume and shit exercise selection for most muscle groups like arms, delts, back, calves, chest.

The point of getting stronger is so you can use bigger weights once you do switch to a hypertrophy program. This will help you get bigger in the long run. But fine, go ahead and recommend a brosplit to a completely untrained beginner, then see how big and swole he is when he's still benching 1pl8 for 5x8-12 after months because those programs have shit progression

So what, pray tell, should untrained noobs be doing? Will you really make them do a 6 day PPL program? Will they follow it and keep up with it consistently?

where are the isotonic ab exercises?

at the very end of each workout dummy!

Someone didn't read the book.
Rip recommends deadlifting every workout until you are able to incorporate alternating power cleans.

planks aren't isotonic!

Pretty much everyone who criticizes SS/GSLP didn't read their respective books.

>The point of getting stronger is so you can use bigger weights once you do switch to a hypertrophy program.

You won't have the work capacity to use those fucking weights.
Meanwhile the guy who did a true full body workout using strength endurance/mass building setxrep scheme will have strength and work capacity.
Something that is vital for any athletic endeavor.

The strength base thing is a fucking meme.

You mean that jump and shrug nonsense?
The one that dumbass crossfit girl in that webm did and snaped her shit up but good?

>crossfit girl
not surprised here

GSLP has neck training in like half of the templates in the book and the author strongly encourages them. The GSLP program base is literally just bench, press, squat, diddly, and you are meant to add more based on what you want to do or you can pick a template from the book/online.

Stop basing opinions on programs from Reddit templates. GSLP and SS are books and the books are meant to be read. Don't look at some random picture of what the routines are supposed to be, look at what the actual creators of the programs have to say about them. As far as SL, fuck SL go do something else especially if you've lifted for a couple months.

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Any criticism that revolves around aesthetics against these routines is 100% null. Dunno about gzlp but the other two promise nothing in the way of aesthetics.

If you have a physics exam and you whine about failing after preparing by studying chemistry books, it's not a problem with the books, you used the wrong fucking material.

post the imgur album my man

>work capacity

This is your fucking refutation? Fucking lol. Both Rippletits and Johnny Pain recommend plenty of conditioning work, for one. Give me an example of a beginner routine with your "superior" exercise selection and set and rep schemes that will somehow develop better strength and work capacity

Fluctuating volumes from low to high

Talking about SS, Im approching the moment where I need to drop some deadlifts per week to add power cleans, and this not gonna happen
with what can I replace them? weighted chins?

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look at his hair you nigs it’s a goddamn bait picture. there’s no way his squat and DL went up that much in 4 months while his bench stayed that shit and there’s especially no way he grew 2 feet of hair in the same time

what a detective

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Another reason why simple programs like this are ideal for beginners is because beginners are more likely to stick to them. Strength is easier to quantify since it's pounds on the bar, and adding weight every workout concretely shows consistent progress. This is motivating for noobs. Make them to an "aesthetics" program to start and they'll just keep looking for pecs and abs that may or may not show up in the next three months

>132 lbs 14%bf
>implying that's what those stats look like

Maybe if he's 4 feet tall

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thats a fucking lie. no way that guy grew that much hair in 4 months. not possible. that take tow years minimum.

So what do you recommend for an intermediate

Explosive pendlay rows are the closest thing thats not an oly lift. Can't really replace them but at least you probably don't need to clean. If you need to clean reconsider removing them.

It's almost like the meme is completely dishonest...

This. Why do retards think a program called STARTING strength would be for advanced athletes?

What's the real timeline and what were his real lifts?

what routine should you do?

Is that Tina Fey's daughter or something? I can't be the only one who thinks she looks oddly like Tina Fey.

no one said advanced athletes, they said "athletic performance" and things like that, which could just be some kid who wants to get big and strong for football.

>herr derr buy the book
This is fucking lower than "post body" you people are fucking brain dead

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Okay, but those noobs have a lot of physical issues that will not get addressed by those programs that will more then likely be glossed over because they were able to complete the set and put more weight on the bar.

Those physical issues will never be addressed and the only thing that will happen is that they'll continue till an inevitable injury occurs or they realize that they don't like what they look like in the mirror.

Then what happens when they inevitably hit the wall and can't progress?
They don't know how to train properly or even how to approach basic physical fitness.
All they know are a handful of lifts which they probably perform poorly and ridiculous exercise dogma.

It was a shit book
That paragraph about "turnaround" and eccentric and concentric phases in the squat was the most poorly phrased thing i've ever seen

Crossfit uses rippeltoes lifting philosophy. Including his unique interpretation of the clean and jerk.
She destroyed her leg trying it.

Jokes on you, I'm still on SS at month 10 with some adjustments and got my squats/bench/deadlift to 330/230/430 for 3 reps respectively

>This is your fucking refutation?
Yeah, someone with even a fucking year of lifting experience or has played a sport knows what I'm talking about.

Are you a shill or do you not know anything other then powerlifting and low volume lifting?

Anti-ss people - what routine should you do for strength and size?

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Why are there so many of these retarded threads? Are you trolling at this point? I don’t know please tell me.
Just do the big compounds in lower rep ranges to build strength. Doing that will logically yield more strength gains and CNS adaptation than doing 10 rep meme shit. This is proven. This is logical. There have been studies. If I lift heavier 5 times I will be able to lift heavier once than someone lifting lighter weight 10 times. What do you brainlets fail to understand about that? Are you really this dumb?
There is no „higher reps 4 muzcle definition and hypertrophy“. That does not exist you fucking imbeciles.
It’s either strength or strength endurance. And training for strength endurance is useless if you don’t have to move stuff repeatedly for long periods of time in your everyday life or in a specific sport.
And then guess what you’re gonna do once you finish your compounds? Just add whatever exercises/isolations you like in whatever rep ranges you want. Planks, crunches, face pulls...you can do whatever the fuck you want after the big compounds. It’s all your choice.
I did meme shit for a whole year without real improvement. Once I started lifting heavy and eating enough - surprise - I started gaining strength and muscle.
These fucking threads are all made by the same dickwads
>I’m new to lifting, have no understanding of the human body and I don’t want to look like a bloatlord, which I assume is automatically gonna happen when doing heavy compounds
>I don’t want to do compounds. Squatting hurts my feminine shoulders and traps because I can’t even hold the bar
>deadlifting is dangerous and I don’t want to learn good form so better do machines
Heavy compounds build strength. Isolations and accessories build muscles that are neglected by compounds.
So how about, instead of being a brainlet and molding your own facts, you just do BOTH?

Notice how none of them will actually give you an answer other than "buy my program to find out".

im on nofap for a month and a half and this picture is slowly arousing me is this normal

You do know that when you do the 8-15 reps thing you have to lift heavy enough to make those reps a challenge?
It's also been proven that you get comparable strength gains in less time but far more mass.
You will also have the energy to do more sets.
Which means MORE VOLUME.
And you know what builds muscle mass don't you?

SS/SL/GSLP
Literally the same shit, seriously
t. did SS and GSLP and enjoyed the journey
t. rotated Wednesday diddly with PC on GSLP

>I’m new to lifting, have no understanding of the human body and I don’t want to look like a bloatlord, which I assume is automatically gonna happen when doing heavy compounds
>I don’t want to do compounds. Squatting hurts my feminine shoulders and traps because I can’t even hold the bar
>deadlifting is dangerous and I don’t want to learn good form so better do machines
no dumbshit
I'm not anti-squatting, anti-deadlifting
these things are great for strength and size
SS, SL, PGSLP neglect calves, abs, arms, traps and neck. That is the number 1 criticism.
Isometric ab work will not give you big abs. Squats and deadlifts will not work your calves. Squats and deadlifts will not target your traps. These routines do nothing for your neck.

In order to look good, or to be functional in many sports, you should be training your neck, you should be training your abs isotonically.

Why do you keep ignoring how I point out that SS and similar routines are for completely untrained noobs?

It is useful for noobs to get strong. Someone who can already do 1/2/3/4 for 5 reps on OHP/BP/SQ/DL will get more results once they transition to a hypertrophy or strength routine after, whichever they prefer. That level of strength is easily achievable on an SS-type program. As opposed to having them to some split from the start and having them start with the bar while making them learn proper form.

And again, give me an example of your superior and more optimal program. You keep shitting on 3x5/5x5 three-day programs yet none of you people have presented an alternative.

Because they don’t HAVE an answer.
They do that machine program you’ll find on flyers at your local gym and then try to validate the fact that they do it because they see people doing heavy compounds and getting bigger.
They don’t want change. They want to get told that the inferior shit they do is absolutely right.

Detective Insecurity

Directly from Jordan (((Feigenbaum)))

barbellmedicine.com/12-ways-to-skin-the-texas-method/

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>It is useful for noobs to get strong. Someone who can already do 1/2/3/4 for 5 reps on OHP/BP/SQ/DL will get more results once they transition to a hypertrophy or strength routine after,

user, that's stupid.
You can put on mass while building strength.
The strength gains are comparable to a pure powerlifting routine PLUS you'll have mass and workout capacity and strength endurance.
Things that are imporant for your everyday life.

You do not need to do a peaking routine using the most dangerous lifts unsupervised to build a base of strength.
It's ridiculous.

good post man, since my DL form is not flawless, slow deadlift or paused ones can be a very good alternative
reading the website rn

SS is neither a bodybuilding routine nor a sports/athleticism routine. How is this fucking hard to understand?

Just be careful he's jewish and part of the SS cult.

Then people and the sticky should stop recommending it as the default.

Most people who want to lift weights do it because they want to look good or because they want to increase their athletic ability (athletic ability for a sport or just because it's useful in day to day life)

>masochistic nofalp cultist

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Im reading for curiosity purpose
I will probably use one stop deadlift, the slow one or the snatch one, what do you think?

Yeah, which is why all those skinny beginner bros and high school kids who do 3-5x8-15 rep programs at gyms all get big and strong after a few months.

Oh wait, that's not true. Because these programs are shit for beginner progression.

I agree with you, if what we're talking about are programs for lifters who aren't beginners. Volume is great. I do a high volume program myself. But it's not optimal for completely untrained beginners.

>they are strength peaking programs

You are clueless.

I don't know, I do power cleans.